50907 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Lizardviking wrote...

I have a hard time describing it. But I think what bothers me is that when she says "I couldn't let you go" makes it look like (atleast to me), that she haven't really moved past Shepard on an emotional level and Shepard is the only one left that she truly cares about.

That seems to be the case, unless there is a non-romanctic interpretation to that line, or it's a bug and non-romanced Shepards are not supposed to hear that.  It has been speculated that new 'defualt' ME2 Shepards will get a chance to romance Liara in ME3, as well as Shepards that just didn't pick her in ME1 for some reason.  If that will be possible, it looks like this is there way of showing that Liara still has feelings for Shepard regardless.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

And it also cheapens her romance path considering she gives the same reason for both types of Shepard for why she saved the body.

I'd say that's more symptomatic of the poor carryover than any faults with Liara's character or her romance, to be honest. When creating Liara's reunion scene, the development staff deliberately made it vague and ambiguous so that it can be easily applied to both a romanced and non-romanced Shepard. When Liara is the player's LI, "I couldn't let you go" is a reaffirmation of her love. When she is not the player's LI, the same dialogue implies that Liara may still hold unrequited romantic feelings for Shepard. It's all due to the laziness of the carryover, IMO.

Hopefully, the Liara DLC will address this issue and there will be unique scenes for a romanced Liara.

I know it's Bioware crappy cameo which is the reason behind it. But it doesn't change that whats Liara says to a non-romanced Shepard about why she saved the body. For me it would be sorta like if the VS ALWAYS said the "I love you" to Shepard on Horizon despite the fact that Shepard never romanced them. Fortunaly they don't and just says something else that shows that they still cared for Shepard (as a friend).

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jtav wrote...

I think there's something a little creepy about "I couldn't let you go" in any case, but especially so when she wasn't your LI. The whole Lazarus project gives me the creeps.

In Retribution, TIM apparently refers to the individuals involved in the Lazarus Project as "zealots", obsessed with ressurrecting Shepard. It seems that even in-universe, some do not particularly like it either.

No, he refers to the Cerberus agents that serve aboard his personal space craft 'zealots'.  These are the only ones he trusts to be close to him, and bring him drinks

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I know it's Bioware crappy cameo which is the reason behind it. But it doesn't change that whats Liara says to a non-romanced Shepard about why she saved the body. For me it would be sorta like if the VS ALWAYS said the "I love you" to Shepard on Horizon despite the fact that Shepard never romanced them. Fortunaly they don't and just says something else that shows that they still cared for Shepard (as a friend).

That's not really comparable, though. What Ashley and Kaidan say on Horizon is a definitive declaration of love, and cannot really be interpreted in any other manner. However, Liara's line is very vague and ambiguous, although admitedly implies very strong, possibly romantic feelings on Liara's part. Like I have said, though, I hope that the Liara DLC will address these issues, and rectify some of the problems with her ME2 reunion scenes.

Saying "I couldn't let you go" still implies you have some pretty strong emotions for them.

[Debi-Tage]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

That seems to be the case, unless there is a non-romanctic interpretation to that line, or it's a bug and non-romanced Shepards are not supposed to hear that.  It has been speculated that new 'defualt' ME2 Shepards will get a chance to romance Liara in ME3, as well as Shepards that just didn't pick her in ME1 for some reason.  If that will be possible, it looks like this is there way of showing that Liara still has feelings for Shepard regardless.

Yeah, and the speculation that the ME1 LIs will be available for re-romance for default, new Shepards in ME3 obviously also rings true with Ashley and Kaidan, too. I believe that there is evidence to support this in the form of the ability to express interest in Ashley or Kaidan to Kelly, when talking to her after Horizon. Although seemingly small and insignificant, this at least creates an RP option for players that wish to incorporate this re-romance into the story of their individual Shepards.

Yeah, as an exclusive Liara mancer, it was hard at first to figure out how (based on the dialog wheel description)  to answer Kelly's question about the VS (in my case Ash). Hell, the VS wasn't any more important to me than Wrex or Garrus!
I was also mad that TIM made a deal out of it, as well as Joker, but then nobody but Kasumi even once mentions anything after I see Liara .

[Nerdage]

Lizardviking wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I know it's Bioware crappy cameo which is the reason behind it. But it doesn't change that whats Liara says to a non-romanced Shepard about why she saved the body. For me it would be sorta like if the VS ALWAYS said the "I love you" to Shepard on Horizon despite the fact that Shepard never romanced them. Fortunaly they don't and just says something else that shows that they still cared for Shepard (as a friend).

That's not really comparable, though. What Ashley and Kaidan say on Horizon is a definitive declaration of love, and cannot really be interpreted in any other manner. However, Liara's line is very vague and ambiguous, although admitedly implies very strong, possibly romantic feelings on Liara's part. Like I have said, though, I hope that the Liara DLC will address these issues, and rectify some of the problems with her ME2 reunion scenes.

Saying "I couldn't let you go" still implies you have some pretty strong emotions for them.

I was under the impression that she had feelings for Shepard whether you romanced her or not, she's the one who starts the romance in the first place, after all.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

nerdage wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

I know it's Bioware crappy cameo which is the reason behind it. But it doesn't change that whats Liara says to a non-romanced Shepard about why she saved the body. For me it would be sorta like if the VS ALWAYS said the "I love you" to Shepard on Horizon despite the fact that Shepard never romanced them. Fortunaly they don't and just says something else that shows that they still cared for Shepard (as a friend).

That's not really comparable, though. What Ashley and Kaidan say on Horizon is a definitive declaration of love, and cannot really be interpreted in any other manner. However, Liara's line is very vague and ambiguous, although admitedly implies very strong, possibly romantic feelings on Liara's part. Like I have said, though, I hope that the Liara DLC will address these issues, and rectify some of the problems with her ME2 reunion scenes.

Saying "I couldn't let you go" still implies you have some pretty strong emotions for them.

I was under the impression that she had feelings for Shepard whether you romanced her or not, she's the one who starts the romance in the first place, after all.

I know. My point is that she says the same thing to both Shepard's. Making it look like that no matter what she hasn't moved past him.

[Debi-Tage]

Agreed Les. For the most part, I felt like TIM and Kelly were shoving the VS down my throat. Liara stating that she "couldn't let you go" is actually a perfect setup for non LI's in a dlc, as dialog during the SB mssion could illuminate the fact that Liara has always loved Shepard, whether or not that love was ever reciprocated. For LI's there would be a special reconciliation of the romance.



It would also be nice to banter on with various new and old crewmates regarding Liara and the SB mission. I am extremely curious to see Liara's role develop in such a way, and what the SB mission means for the overall trilogy. I also agree that all of the implications of this dlc point to it being rather large, more akin to an expansion.

[Debi-Tage]

Also, in the conversation regarding how Shep's body was recovered by Cerberus via Liara's help, you can ask her why she kept it a secret. The very first thing she says is because she "screwed it up" and barely escaped with her own life. This indicates, to me at least, that she is a bit embarassed about how the whole thing went down and now feels the weight of responsibility for Feron's life (similar to the responsibilties of command Shep experiences). One of the over-arching themes in ME2 for Shep's character is never taking the easy way out and always putting duty before personal feelings. Liara seems to be adopting this characteristic from Shep. It is actually kind of endearing to me.

It is also very obvious that she fears that you will hate her for turning your body over to Cerberus. She has been through so much and at the point of the meeting on Illium, it shines through.

Modifié par Debi-Tage, 05 août 2010 - 10:06 .

[Debi-Tage]

Another theme that is setup in ME2 is the idea of betrayal. Miri, Garrus, Tali, Jack, Zaeed, Jacob, Legion (in a way), and Mordin were all betrayed either outright along the way, or had their preconceptions about an individual close to them shattered in some way. I just hope this does not manifest itself in regards to the ME3 LI's in anyway!

Modifié par Debi-Tage, 05 août 2010 - 10:20 .

[Master Wolf]

I never understand I Liara feel guilty because of Feron and why she says that she made a mistake it's was Feron idea to do the thing the way he did if it didin't work is his fault because he trusted to much in is ability to fool Tazziq he didin't let Liara know what he was going to do and besides he was only caught because he betrayed Liara in Omega otherwise Liara would be able to recover Shepard body in Omega and Feron would not have to sacrifice himself what happened to Feron is his fault only and nobody else I hope that in this DLC we have the oportunity to show this to Liara.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 05 août 2010 - 10:24 .

[TMA LIVE]

[Debi-Tage]

Master Wolf wrote...

I never understand I Liara feel guilty because of Feron and why she says that she made a mistake it's was Feron idea to do the thing the way he did if it didin't work is his fault because he trusted to much in is ability to fool Tazziq he didin't let Liara know what he was going to do and besides he was only caught because he betrayed Liara in Omega otherwise Liara would be able to recover Shepard body in Omega and Feron would not have to sacrifice himself what happened to Feron is his fault only and nobody else I hope that in this DLC we have the oportunity to show this to Liara.

I don't actually think Liara feels guilty about Feron, per se, but rather that she feels it is now her responsibilty to help him if she can, seeing as how nobody else will. Feron has effectively sacrificed himself for Liara's mission to recover the commader's body, it does not seem in Liara's nature to just say "oh well, sorry, but thanks for the help," whether or not Feron's motivations were ever as noble as hers.   

[Master Wolf]

Debi-Tage wrote...

I don't actually think Liara feels guilty about Feron, per se, but rather that she feels it is now her responsibilty to help him if she can, seeing as how nobody else will. Feron has effectively sacrificed himself for Liara's mission to recover the commader's body, it does not seem in Liara's nature to just say "oh well, sorry, but thanks for the help," whether or not Feron's motivations were ever as noble as hers.   

She doesn't have any resposability in helping him he sacrificed himself for Liara and her misson because in Omega he betrayed Liara and made it impossible for her to recover Shepard body right there when he sacrificed himself to save Shepard he was just correcting the mistake he made in Omega Liara and Shepard don't have any kind of debt or responsability for Feron what he did in the SB base was just correct his mistake in Omega. At least this is how I see it.

Modifié par Master Wolf, 05 août 2010 - 10:37 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Debi-Tage wrote...

Another theme that is setup in ME2 is the idea of betrayal. Miri, Garrus, Tali, Jack, Zaeed, Jacob, Legion (in a way), and Mordin were all betrayed either outright along the way, or had their preconceptions about an individual close to them shattered in some way. I just hope this does not manifest itself in regards to the ME3 LI's in anyway!

I would hate to find out that Liara have been plotting against me somehow!

But then again. You can't spell Liara without Liar.

[Debi-Tage]

Lizardviking wrote...

Debi-Tage wrote...

Another theme that is setup in ME2 is the idea of betrayal. Miri, Garrus, Tali, Jack, Zaeed, Jacob, Legion (in a way), and Mordin were all betrayed either outright along the way, or had their preconceptions about an individual close to them shattered in some way. I just hope this does not manifest itself in regards to the ME3 LI's in anyway!

I would hate to find out that Liara have been plotting against me somehow!

But then again. You can't spell Liara without Liar.

Lair of the SB

[jlb524]

I do want Liara to still be in love with Shep's that did not romance her, so my newly created Shep (single in both ME1 and ME2) can pick up the romance with her in either the DLC or ME3.



I would like that...but that's my own selfish reasoning

[Debi-Tage]

Master Wolf wrote...

She doesn't have any resposability in helping him he sacrificed himself for Liara and her misson because in Omega he betrayed Liara and made it impossible for her to recover Shepard body right there when he sacrificed himself to save Shepard he was just correcting the mistake he made in Omega Liara and Shepard don't have any kind of debt or responsability for Feron what he did in the SB base was just correct his mistake in Omega. At least this is how I see it.

Yes, but Liara herself never realized this, so it couldn't factor into her present motivation in ME2. I, as well as you, hope she gets the chance to see what was really going on though, hopefully in the dlc!

[TMA LIVE]

Master Wolf wrote...

Debi-Tage wrote...

I don't actually think Liara feels guilty about Feron, per se, but rather that she feels it is now her responsibilty to help him if she can, seeing as how nobody else will. Feron has effectively sacrificed himself for Liara's mission to recover the commader's body, it does not seem in Liara's nature to just say "oh well, sorry, but thanks for the help," whether or not Feron's motivations were ever as noble as hers.   

She doesn't have any resposability in helping him he sacrificed himself for Liara and her misson because in Omega he betrayed Liara and made it impossible for her to recover Shepard body right there when he sacrificed himself to save Shepard he was just correcting the mistake he made in Omega Liara and Shepard don't have any kind of debt or responsability for Feron what he did in the SB base was just correct his mistake in Omega. At least this is how I see it.

Yeah, but he did it to get info on the Shadow Broker. And then after getting the data, he could have ran right there. Instead, he helped Liara save Shepard. And Liara picked saving a corpse over Feron. A corpse that might have not been resurrected.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 05 août 2010 - 10:50 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Debi-Tage wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Debi-Tage wrote...

Another theme that is setup in ME2 is the idea of betrayal. Miri, Garrus, Tali, Jack, Zaeed, Jacob, Legion (in a way), and Mordin were all betrayed either outright along the way, or had their preconceptions about an individual close to them shattered in some way. I just hope this does not manifest itself in regards to the ME3 LI's in anyway!

I would hate to find out that Liara have been plotting against me somehow!

But then again. You can't spell Liara without Liar.

Lair of the SB

Could be interesting if Liara had some "Would you kindly" scheme going on with Shepard.

Okay maybe not completly like it, but you get the general idea.