50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

No, YOU lot just need to become Liara's writers. Problem solved.

[Slakky]

Nightwriter wrote...
But then, they were also probably thinking, "Wow, Liara became more kickass" at the same time they were thinking, "Wow, Liara's become obsessed and refuses to talk to me about our relationship."

I remember when I first loaded up the game, I really had no intention of using the BSN.  Then I played Liara's fetch quest on Illium, and I dropped straight out of the game and loaded up the forums so somebody could explain to me what the **** just happened.

Not nice, but it kind of worked out I guess.

[pf17456]

Nightwriter wrote...

No, YOU lot just need to become Liara's writers. Problem solved.

Well on an optimistic note perhaps BW writers have visited this thread and got some ideas.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

But then, they were also probably thinking, "Wow, Liara became more kickass" at the same time they were thinking, "Wow, Liara's become obsessed and refuses to talk to me about our relationship."

You can't win, I guess.

Those people need to come onto the BSN...we will change their minds about Liara.

I've been here a while. That hasn't changed.

[Nightwriter]

Did your mind change after you came on the BSN, Slakky?

[Slakky]

I don't think my mind really needed changing, but having the back story filled in made her a lot more interesting.

[TMA LIVE]

Slakky wrote...

I don't think my mind really needed changing, but having the back story filled in made her a lot more interesting.

Yeah. I got more interested from learning her backstory, and reading the comic.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 13 août 2010 - 12:47 .

[Nightwriter]

Slakky wrote...

I don't think my mind really needed changing, but having the back story filled in made her a lot more interesting.

Personally, I think if someone needs to have stuff explained to them by a characters' fans in order for that character to make sense, the writers didn't do something right.

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

Slakky wrote...

I don't think my mind really needed changing, but having the back story filled in made her a lot more interesting.

Personally, I think if someone needs to have stuff explained to them by a characters' fans in order for that character to make sense, the writers didn't do something right.

Well, it's not just that. It's also the fact that her back story doesn't exist unless A) You read the comic. Someone told you. Or C) You hit that rare dialogue option, where Liara explains it to you. If neither of this happen to you, then you're just plain screwed.

[tmk]

Someone is always going to need something explained to him by others. Some of us didn't need anyone to explain anything though... make of it what you will.

TMA LIVE wrote...
Well, it's not just that. It's also the fact that her back story doesn't exist unless A) You read the comic. Someone told you. Or C) You hit that rare dialogue option, where Liara explains it to you. If neither of this happen to you, then you're just plain screwed.

Well, if you're talking about that specific dialogue... I suppose getting the second quest is a bit obscure - she says she doesn't need your help, and to get the quest anyway you need to pick the dialogue option you've already picked before. But I believe you get a journal entry when you complete the first quest, which says you should help her again later, so that's one hint...

After you do the second quest, it's just a matter of clicking "investigate"...

Modifié par tmk, 13 août 2010 - 02:05 .

[TMA LIVE]

tmk wrote...

Someone is always going to need something explained to him by others. Some of us didn't need anyone to explain anything though... make of it what you will.

TMA LIVE wrote...
Well, it's not just that. It's also the fact that her back story doesn't exist unless A) You read the comic. Someone told you. Or C) You hit that rare dialogue option, where Liara explains it to you. If neither of this happen to you, then you're just plain screwed.

Well, if you're talking about that specific dialogue... I suppose getting the second quest is a bit obscure - she says she doesn't need your help, and to get the quest anyway you need to pick the dialogue option you've already picked before. But I believe you get a journal entry when you complete the first quest, which says you should help her again later, so that's one hint...

After you do the second quest, it's just a matter of clicking "investigate"...

No, I'm talking about the fact that, if you hit the top investigate option, she ends her dialogue scene without ever tell you. Now tell me this: When you're given investigation options, do you click 'em from down to up, or up till down?

[Nightwriter]

Well I'm lost, I wasn't talking about any of that.

I meant Liara gets obsessed with one person to the extent she won't help you save the galaxy. She doesn't talk about the relationship, pulls away from the kiss, and refuses to stop the Reapers because the Normandy doesn't have information gathering devices.

Your average person goes "wtf". It takes a Liara fan to describe Liara's emotional state enough to explain all this.

[tmk]

Depends on the dialogue. I generally save before every dialogue and try to listen to all options (except those that are obviously "out-of-character" on my playthrough).

[Slakky]

Didn't the investigate option for her explanation disappear if you didn't click it immediately after the 2nd mission?

Edit:  Yeah, it does.

Modifié par Slakky, 13 août 2010 - 02:29 .

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well I'm lost, I wasn't talking about any of that.

I meant Liara gets obsessed with one person to the extent she won't help you save the galaxy. She doesn't talk about the relationship, pulls away from the kiss, and refuses to stop the Reapers because the Normandy doesn't have information gathering devices.

Your average person goes "wtf". It takes a Liara fan to describe Liara's emotional state enough to explain all this.

Oh that? Yeah, I don't listen to that because it's more of a option based on personal prespective. I just can't based my thoughts off what other people think, instead of what's in front of me, and how I'm reacting to it. Because they could be telling me this and that for months, and then Liara's DLC tells me otherwise.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 13 août 2010 - 02:27 .

[tmk]

Nightwriter wrote...
I meant Liara gets obsessed with one person to the extent she won't help you save the galaxy. She doesn't talk about the relationship, pulls away from the kiss, and refuses to stop the Reapers because the Normandy doesn't have information gathering devices.

Your average person goes "wtf". It takes a Liara fan to describe Liara's emotional state enough to explain all this.

It just takes a person who is curious to know why she is that way, rather than go "she's apparently gone crazy, so screw her and romance Tali instead". And if you do get to that dialogue, you realize it's about more than just one person.

Slakky wrote...
Didn't the investigate option for her explanation disappear if you didn't click it immediately after the 2nd mission?

Not sure... but if it did, then yea, I suppose that would add to the obscurity.

Modifié par tmk, 13 août 2010 - 02:28 .

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well I'm lost, I wasn't talking about any of that.

I meant Liara gets obsessed with one person to the extent she won't help you save the galaxy. She doesn't talk about the relationship, pulls away from the kiss, and refuses to stop the Reapers because the Normandy doesn't have information gathering devices.

Your average person goes "wtf". It takes a Liara fan to describe Liara's emotional state enough to explain all this.

Yeah, it the whole Liara in ME2 thing looks bad if you don't stop to obsessivly think it over....that's what fans are for!

The scene was so poorly executed.  My first impression was similar to thinking what you described above...it was quite negative...a gigantic WTF.  But I kept thinking about it, and then talked to other Liara fans and this helped my opinion of Liara in ME2 tremendously...the scene is still poorly executed, though.

[jlb524]

tmk wrote...

It just takes a person who is curious to know why she is that way, rather than go "she's apparently gone crazy, so screw her and romance Tali instead". And if you do get to that dialogue, you realize it's about more than just one person.

Yeah, I totally missed that special dialog to first time I play.  I tend to go top to bottom through the 'Investigate' dialog tree.  Without that one bit of dialog, the scene is 100x worse.  

[tmk]

A lot of scenes in life are poorly executed, that's not an excuse not to think about their meaning.

The UI making dialogue choices obscure is another thing though, that I agree on.

Modifié par tmk, 13 août 2010 - 02:34 .

[TMA LIVE]

tmk wrote...

A lot of scenes in life are poorly executed, that's not an excuse not to think about their meaning.

The UI making dialogue choices obscure is another thing though, that I agree on.

There isn't a problem with thinking. The problem is just when people start trying to fill in gaps, only to get burned, because guess what, the writers aren't thinking as deeply as you. You're just a fan trying to repair a bad scene with your ideas, instead of seeing it the way it's intended.

It's like that because they want you to think WTF.

And it's like that because they want to give you a reason to move on to someone else. Just like with Ash/Kaidan.

That's it. Everything else is just speculation until her DLC comes out.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 13 août 2010 - 02:53 .

[Nightwriter]

tmk wrote...

A lot of scenes in life are poorly executed, that's not an excuse not to think about their meaning.

The UI making dialogue choices obscure is another thing though, that I agree on.

This is writing, it can't get away with being as poorly executed as real life. No one writes real life. Of course it's crap.

I heard her explanation the first time through and still had a "wtf" moment. Her friendly feelings toward Feron are supposed to be totally unsupported by the comics, and I have a hard time swallowing the fact that even after I assure her I'm not mad and her guilt is assuaged, she still won't come with me or talk about us further.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 13 août 2010 - 02:51 .

[tmk]

Well, I dunno, I have a harder time swallowing the fact that everyone jumps onboard your suicide train without a second though (except maybe Tali, who initially has other commitments).



What exactly are you referring to as "bad writing"? That she doesn't come with you? Or that she doesn't explain her feelings well enough?

[TMA LIVE]

tmk wrote...

Well, I dunno, I have a harder time swallowing the fact that everyone jumps onboard your suicide train without a second though (except maybe Tali, who initially has other commitments).

What exactly are you referring to as "bad writing"? That she doesn't come with you? Or that she doesn't explain her feelings well enough?

I don't have a problem with her not coming with me. It's just that she's treating you like "some guy that died, who's now alive". It's all just business.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 13 août 2010 - 03:31 .

[jlb524]

tmk wrote...

A lot of scenes in life are poorly executed, that's not an excuse not to think about their meaning.

Yes, and I did think about it's meaning after playing through it once.  While I was playing it for the very first time, though, I was more concerned with how poorly she was being presented by the dev team. 

Most casual fans that pick up and play the game once will not care to put much thought into her ME2 role, though.

[Nightwriter]

tmk wrote...

Well, I dunno, I have a harder time swallowing the fact that everyone jumps onboard your suicide train without a second though (except maybe Tali, who initially has other commitments).

qft

tmk wrote...

What exactly are you referring to as "bad writing"? That she doesn't come with you? Or that she doesn't explain her feelings well enough?

Well, basically...

1. Her reason for not coming sucks. I don't have a problem with her not coming, but they could think of a better reason.

2. She doesn't even address the romance, and you've been dead two years. All I needed was for her to say "I don't know where we're at." Instead she says nothing. NOTHING.

3. It'll sound arrogant, but I didn't feel like the scene treated the reunion as a big enough deal. She knows Cerberus is bringing you back, but the reality of that should impact her when she finally sees you. I wanted to see disbelief, and emotion.

4. Shepard wasn't allowed to say a lot of the things I wanted to say.

5. She seems vaguely out of character. The transition feels like it came from nowhere.

Is that complaining? Yeah, it's complaining. Oh well, I'm a complainer. I'll start a club.