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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI


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#46051
IndigoWolfe

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glenboy24 wrote...

Salutations Liara-Lovers. Was playing through ME1 recently and I suddenly came to an interesting conclusion that has likely been discussed at Length here in the Liara Thread, none the less I felt it was worth brining up again if only for the sake of clarification. Now, I won't hide the fact that my first choice for Shep's Life Time Love Interest is Tali Zorah. Not looking to get stoned here, it's just a personal choice. However, looking over ME1, and the Impact Liara has on that game's Story and Characters (Her mother, etc) and looking at ME2 and the gravity of her presence, though brief, there, and lastly the Comic Series dedicated to her exploits post Shepard's "Death"; taking these observations into account, would it be safe to assume the Liara was intended, by the Writers, to be Shepard's "Canon" Love Interest?

I know, I know. In an RPG "Canon" is a loose term, however I just can't bring myself to see it as otherwise even though I usually choose Tali in the end. When ME1 first launched, the Michael Bay like Trailer hinted that Ashley Williams was Shepard's Canon LI; however, once you sat down and played the game, and saw just how little Ashley effected Shepard and how little impact she had in the Story, short of what happens on Virmire, it really highlights the fact that the Ashley and Shep love scene in the Trailer was more for marketing purposes then anything else.

Also, an important observation I forgot to make, we have the impending Shadow Broker DLC that brings Liara back into the fold so to speak. So, taking these all into account, would this community agree that Liara *was* in fact intended to be the Canon Love Interest? Now, given how much some of you REALLY love Liara I know it will be easy for you to just jump out and say, "Of course she was!" But, I want you crazy kids to think on it, and really look at it from all sides before you answer.

I know this was something I could have turned into a Thread, but, aside from the fact that I hate it when a Thread is created and forgotten ten seconds later, I just figured it made sense to ask this question in a place where pretty much any Liara question would be welcome as long as it wasn't Spam. So, thanks for taking the time to read this and, maybe, post a response. Here's to Love in general in Mass Effect.


I've thought on this myself. While yes, it would be not without solid grounds to say that Bioware may be pushing for Liara as the canon LI, I don't think you could conclusively say either way.

The most telling evidence against it would be the fact that neither of the trailers featured Liara as Shepard's LI. While this is not really a reprisentation of Shepard, merely a showcase of what the game has to offer, it's something to note. As you said, it was likely a marketing device, most likely due to the probability that the average consumer would more easily relate with a romance with a distinctly human character, rather than a humanoid character.

The evidence for, as you said, is in Liara's importance to the overarching story of Mass Effect. However, most of the universal interactions you have with Liara don't necessarily necessitate a romance. I will agree that Bioware are pushing for a canon friendship between the two, on which a relationship is based if the case may be.

The exception would be the universally available "Because I couldn't let you go" line. This definitely implys that Liara develops feelings for you beyond friendship regardless of wether or not they are reciprocated. This is in contrast to Redemption, where Liara strictly sticks to referring to Shepard as a friend. But there were external reasons for that.

In short; yes, I think it is entirely possible that Bioware may have Liara in mind as the canon Love Interest. Speaking on a strictly personal basis, I wouldn't have a problem with this. Speaking in a general sense, I hope Bioware don't do it. People deserve to have their own LIs be their own "canon LIs". And plus the fact that I share a room with someone who --if Bioware outright made Liara the canon LI-- would be making his "murderdeathrage" face for the forseeable future.

#46052
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

I've thought on this myself. While yes, it would be not without solid grounds to say that Bioware may be pushing for Liara as the canon LI, I don't think you could conclusively say either way.

The most telling evidence against it would be the fact that neither of the trailers featured Liara as Shepard's LI. While this is not really a reprisentation of Shepard, merely a showcase of what the game has to offer, it's something to note. As you said, it was likely a marketing device, most likely due to the probability that the average consumer would more easily relate with a romance with a distinctly human character, rather than a humanoid character.

The evidence for, as you said, is in Liara's importance to the overarching story of Mass Effect. However, most of the universal interactions you have with Liara don't necessarily necessitate a romance. I will agree that Bioware are pushing for a canon friendship between the two, on which a relationship is based if the case may be.

The exception would be the universally available "Because I couldn't let you go" line. This definitely implys that Liara develops feelings for you beyond friendship regardless of wether or not they are reciprocated. This is in contrast to Redemption, where Liara strictly sticks to referring to Shepard as a friend. But there were external reasons for that.

In short; yes, I think it is entirely possible that Bioware may have Liara in mind as the canon Love Interest. Speaking on a strictly personal basis, I wouldn't have a problem with this. Speaking in a general sense, I hope Bioware don't do it. People deserve to have their own LIs be their own "canon LIs". And plus the fact that I share a room with someone who --if Bioware outright made Liara the canon LI-- would be making his "murderdeathrage" face for the forseeable future.


Nice answer. You touched on some subjects I forgot. And yeah, Bioware should NEVER force a canon-LI on people, even if it's Liara.

On a completely unrelated note: Does anybody know how to make GIF's??

#46053
IndigoWolfe

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Slakky wrote...
Bisexuality also makes EA really uncomfortable.  They have to do something with her going forward, but I'd be shocked if they did a 180 and she reprised her role as the "canon" love interest.  She probably won't even be an option if you didn't play ME1.


I'll really have to disagree here. Bisexuality, in my experience, does not make EA uncomfortable in the slightest. The Sims, ME, Dragon Age and ME2 all have bisexuality in them. ME2 just did not have full-fledged bisexual LIs in it and that's what people tend to focus on.

And I also think that Liara will be independently available as a Love Interest in ME3. She has the perfect setup, and she is garanteed to be in everyone's saves. In a perfect world, Liara would have two entirely seperate romance storylines, one for the overarching romance, and another for a romance that was officially started in ME3.

In my mind, this would be an entirely plausible option. I might even find myself preferring the ME3 Liara romance, were it done correctly.

#46054
IndigoWolfe

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Lizardviking wrote...
On a completely unrelated note: Does anybody know how to make GIF's??


I don't, but I know someone who does and am currently thinking about asking them to teach me. 

#46055
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
On a completely unrelated note: Does anybody know how to make GIF's??


I don't, but I know someone who does and am currently thinking about asking them to teach me. 


Awww...

:blush:

#46056
IndigoWolfe

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Lizardviking wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
On a completely unrelated note: Does anybody know how to make GIF's??


I don't, but I know someone who does and am currently thinking about asking them to teach me. 


Awww...

:blush:


What do you have planned? Because if you're thinking what I think you're thinking, and I think you are thinking the thought I think,  then you're going to make some enemies.

I think.

#46057
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
On a completely unrelated note: Does anybody know how to make GIF's??


I don't, but I know someone who does and am currently thinking about asking them to teach me. 


Awww...

:blush:


What do you have planned? Because if you're thinking what I think you're thinking, and I think you are thinking the thought I think,  then you're going to make some enemies.

I think.


Woah!

I just have this hilarious scene from ME2 which would make a great GIF.

#46058
IndigoWolfe

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Lizardviking wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
On a completely unrelated note: Does anybody know how to make GIF's??


I don't, but I know someone who does and am currently thinking about asking them to teach me. 


Awww...

:blush:


What do you have planned? Because if you're thinking what I think you're thinking, and I think you are thinking the thought I think,  then you're going to make some enemies.

I think.


Woah!

I just have this hilarious scene from ME2 which would make a great GIF.


Oh, well then you're in the clear.

#46059
IndigoWolfe

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New poll created; Liara with facial markings.

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 16 août 2010 - 04:02 .


#46060
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

New poll created; Liara with facial markings.


Already voted.

#46061
jtav

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In the "how did I miss this?" department, I just noticed the Observer quests are filed under missions, not assignments in the journal. Hmm.

#46062
jlb524

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jtav wrote...

In the "how did I miss this?" department, I just noticed the Observer quests are filed under missions, not assignments in the journal. Hmm.


That is true.  I've seen it but never thought much of it.

It might go back to what we had speculated on before....that Liara at some point had a much larger role in ME2 before it was cut and repurposed to the comic book/DLC.  I imagine the SB/Liara thing was to be quite a large quest, enough to justify filing it under 'missions'?  Possible.

#46063
Guest_yorkj86_*

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

New poll created; Liara with facial markings.


I always thought of Liara's eyebrows as facial markings.  We don't even know if their facial markings are genetic or not.  Anyway, there's that mod that gives her white facial markings, and they don't look good.

#46064
NICKjnp

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jlb524 wrote...

jtav wrote...

In the "how did I miss this?" department, I just noticed the Observer quests are filed under missions, not assignments in the journal. Hmm.


That is true.  I've seen it but never thought much of it.

It might go back to what we had speculated on before....that Liara at some point had a much larger role in ME2 before it was cut and repurposed to the comic book/DLC.  I imagine the SB/Liara thing was to be quite a large quest, enough to justify filing it under 'missions'?  Possible.


Wrex and the Council are both classified as 'missions'.  I think anything connected to ME1 is classified as a mission rather than an assignment.

#46065
Dinkamus_Littlelog

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yorkj86 wrote...

I always thought of Liara's eyebrows as facial markings.  We don't even know if their facial markings are genetic or not.  Anyway, there's that mod that gives her white facial markings, and they don't look good.


I highly doubt they are genetic. If they are its really, REALLY badly done from the designers. I mean, look at say Kasumis markings and that of an asari (like the councillor) and its pretty much the same thing.

The texture and markings of their head tentacles I can easily see as being genetic, but the facial markings look far too artificial to be anything they have at birth if you ask me.

#46066
Marcin K

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well time to go here for today-cya all tomorrow:)

#46067
Roamingmachine

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I hope they release new Liara content soon.With romance content.As fun as it is roleplaying my femshep backsliding back in to an amoral bastard she was before Liara with all sense of military duty forgotten (still a Specter, but that doesn't count for much.Amorality is a good thing for them), it's going fast to the point where she is going to space Ms. Lawson and use the rest of the Cerberus crew for biotic skeet-shooting targets with Jack Posted Image Not to mention flaying people with her mind just for the hell of it. 
All work and no blueberry make Sarah a very, very angry and vicious girl Posted Image

#46068
Unata

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

Salutations Liara-Lovers. Was playing through ME1 recently and I suddenly came to an interesting conclusion that has likely been discussed at Length here in the Liara Thread, none the less I felt it was worth brining up again if only for the sake of clarification. Now, I won't hide the fact that my first choice for Shep's Life Time Love Interest is Tali Zorah. Not looking to get stoned here, it's just a personal choice. However, looking over ME1, and the Impact Liara has on that game's Story and Characters (Her mother, etc) and looking at ME2 and the gravity of her presence, though brief, there, and lastly the Comic Series dedicated to her exploits post Shepard's "Death"; taking these observations into account, would it be safe to assume the Liara was intended, by the Writers, to be Shepard's "Canon" Love Interest? .......*snip*



I've thought on this myself. While yes, it would be not without solid grounds to say that Bioware may be pushing for Liara as the canon LI, I don't think you could conclusively say either way.

The most telling evidence against it would be the fact that neither of the trailers featured Liara as Shepard's LI. While this is not really a reprisentation of Shepard, merely a showcase of what the game has to offer, it's something to note. As you said, it was likely a marketing device, most likely due to the probability that the average consumer would more easily relate with a romance with a distinctly human character, rather than a humanoid character.

The evidence for, as you said, is in Liara's importance to the overarching story of Mass Effect. However, most of the universal interactions you have with Liara don't necessarily necessitate a romance. I will agree that Bioware are pushing for a canon friendship between the two, on which a relationship is based if the case may be.

The exception would be the universally available "Because I couldn't let you go" line. This definitely implys that Liara develops feelings for you beyond friendship regardless of wether or not they are reciprocated. This is in contrast to Redemption, where Liara strictly sticks to referring to Shepard as a friend. But there were external reasons for that.

In short; yes, I think it is entirely possible that Bioware may have Liara in mind as the canon Love Interest. Speaking on a strictly personal basis, I wouldn't have a problem with this. Speaking in a general sense, I hope Bioware don't do it. People deserve to have their own LIs be their own "canon LIs". And plus the fact that I share a room with someone who --if Bioware outright made Liara the canon LI-- would be making his "murderdeathrage" face for the forseeable future.


I would agree with you Indigo on the above underlined part, although I honestly felt the "romance" were marketing enticements, no matter who the romance was with, I would venture to imagine they had the storyline with the Liara basic story (mind melds, Benezia/Saren tie, Shadowbroker, etc), added Liara romance (marketing) then added the other LI's for variety for the masses, considering how odd in places the romancing parts happen leads me to believe this.

Ok back into the woodwork I go :P

#46069
jtav

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I just picked the "So am I" option in my latest game. I like it, despite the fact that it involved being nasty to Liara. It's one of the few places where Shepard comes off like a human being with actual emotions, and one of the few places where I can make Shepard say more or less what I wanted instead of just going along with the plot.

#46070
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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jtav wrote...

I just picked the "So am I" option in my latest game. I like it, despite the fact that it involved being nasty to Liara. It's one of the few places where Shepard comes off like a human being with actual emotions, and one of the few places where I can make Shepard say more or less what I wanted instead of just going along with the plot.


Too bad that instead getting into an arguement, both of them just sit downs and move on. And it's also sad that teh only way to show emotions from Shepard's side you have to be angry and frustated at her, but I still pick all the lower options until she reveals her guilt. If only because it's so cruel to blame and hate her for what she did.

#46071
Dinkamus_Littlelog

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Personally I think the only decent part of that dialogue is that Liara defends herself from a hypocritical Shepard.

"You did this to me! You made me willingly follow cerberus of my own volition with hardly anything but the weakest of protests!"

Also not forgetting Shepard was the moron who got himself killed to begin with. IMO, the dialogue is just another instance of "jerkgade". Still, the only other option is "thnx, teh mishon iz 2 importehnt", so either way youre basically subjected to some of the worst written dialogue ME2 has to offer if you ask me.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 16 août 2010 - 09:23 .


#46072
TMA LIVE

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Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Personally I think the only decent part of that dialogue is that Liara defends herself from a hypocritical Shepard.

"You did this to me! You made me willingly follow cerberus of my own volition with hardly anything but the weakest of protests!"

Also not forgetting Shepard was the moron who got himself killed to begin with. IMO, the dialogue is just another instance of "jerkgade". Still, the only other option is "thnx, teh mishon iz 2 importehnt", so either way youre basically subjected to some of the worst written dialogue ME2 has to offer if you ask me.


I think it's more for Terminator/Renegade Shepard, because lets face it, he's no longer human (or completely human), he looks like the Terminator, and he's forced to work for a terrorist group, in a galaxy that hates him. This is also the whiny brat Shepard. Also, I didn't like that scene, because it seems like the relationship is going to turn into a wife beater relationship.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 16 août 2010 - 09:35 .


#46073
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Personally I think the only decent part of that dialogue is that Liara defends herself from a hypocritical Shepard.

"You did this to me! You made me willingly follow cerberus of my own volition with hardly anything by the weakest of protests!"

Also not forgetting Shepard was the moron who got himself killed to begin with. IMO, the dialogue is just another instance of "jerkgade". Still, the only other option is "thnx, teh mishon iz 2 importehnt", so either way youre basically subjected to some of the worst written dialogue ME2 has to offer if you ask me.


I don't think the "So am I" option is bad or hypocritical. Sure Shepard joins Cerberus, but the paragon only seems to do it out necesicity (granted the whole thing is so poorly excecuted, but thats another story). I think the option would be picked by a Shepard who hates his current situation (Council don't believe him, neither does the VS, etc) and is pretty frustated, Shepard is proberly  thinking "What did I do to deserve this? What have I done?!" throughout the entire game and then suddenly when he finally meets Liara again and hear that it's her who gave him to Cerberus. Shepard then blames her for everything, if only because he needs something to blame for all the **** he have been going through.

Just my two cent.

#46074
jtav

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Don't forget that s/he's essentially been brought back to die again and in the service of people that s/he likely hates. I was playing a Sole Survivor and I think her outburst was more than justified. I just wish Liara wasn't the only person that she could get angry at.

#46075
Dinkamus_Littlelog

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I think TMA has it right, Shepard in ME2 is really quite a moron.

Of course, maybe Im biased by the fact that I play a sole survivor, and the genius writers at Bioware thought it would be a great idea to COMPLETELY IGNORE THE CERBERUS CONNECTION (apologies, but I think its so stupid it demands excessive caps).

On my second playthrough I skipped the initial backstory rehash because a flat "lets move on" works more than informing members of the group responsible for the atrocity of how "it can change you if you let it".

Instead of being lazy and falling back on "streamlined" dialogue, an optional "yes I remember, and I owe you people for that" dialogue option would have been perfect, and what would it cost exactly

Edit: I play a sole survivor, and I think this only further makes Shepard out as an idiot for blaming Liara rather than cerberus.

Sorry, but that roleplaying route of trying to force it onto Liara simply doesnt work, and I think it should not have been an option. Shepard is simply railroaded into bed with cerberus to easily to come across as anything other than a petulant hypocrite.

I just think that dialogue is damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Why not have the indignation part be about Liara deceiving Shepard over it, rather than actually handing him over? They made a start with "it wasnt your contacts", but it trailed off into a stupid "you did this to me" rant. Cerberus were going after him anyway, but just let Liara do it, so its likely Shepard would have been found by Cerberus anyway, or simply handed over to the collectors.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 16 août 2010 - 09:41 .