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[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

I really don't think there's a biological benefit for the asari to pair with a non-asari. None. The AY thing may be a very small risk, but I don't think it's enough to justify avoiding your own species (and I think most asari may prefer to be with their own species, IMO). It's purely a cultural thing and ridiculous, IMO.

I have some theories I'll be posting soon.

[Sigilius]

The asari are a female race. They just happen to be equipped to reproduce in a different manner that does not necessarily require genders to be involved. I imagine that they had no issues with purebloods when other asari that populated Thessia were their only romantic option. As a species, they had to survive. But once they were introduced to other sentient species, and discovered they were compatible (that must have been strange, eh?), entirely new options opened up for them. And since they are female (as stated by the Codex), perhaps asari (at least ones who no longer had to mature in the original homeworld environment) do indeed prefer other species, if not specifically males. Although, since they are actually female, I would imagine that the male-female relationship would possess appeal for them. Besides, the asari on Illium seem to be reflecting this mindset: more and more asari are moving away from the old ideals with each generation. They're opening their minds and moving past their old prejudices/stigmas/preferrences. It's the equivalent of human ignorance. As humanity has advanced in recent centuries and truly modernized, old ideals and preconceptions have been abandoned, but those who were raised in such prejudiced environments found it difficult/impossible to change their ways. It's a generational thing. While the original asari had no other options, the new generations are born into a galaxy filled with different viable species. Bonding with a human or turian is just as if not more natural to them.

But on the whole, the thing about the asari is that they tend to love their fellow sentient beings for being just that: sentient. They mate/relate to others on an intellectual level. They love each other for their minds...

Still doesn't stop me from supporting Male Shepard/Liara, though.

[/rant]

Modifié par Sigilius, 26 août 2010 - 04:00 .

[Marcin K]

hey all

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

All this talk about purebloods reminds me how idiotic I think the entire idea is.

Always felt that (in ME1) it was nothing more than some lame attempt from Bioware to make us feel more sorry for Liara (which was completely uneccesary). I'm glad ME2 actuelly expanded on the idea and make it slightly more believable. But even then, I find the whole thing hard to buy.

[tonnactus]

yorkj86 wrote...


EDIT: As for being able to attract other species, Mordin says that the asari produce pheromones,

That was just an assumption from him if i remember it right. And if this is true,its another hint that the asari are an artificial race ingame.Because pheromones of other species shouldnt do anything.

that can induce sexual arousal, even, somehow, in species that have no sexual appetites, like the salarians.  Humans don't respond to pheromones,

Source?

[jlb524]

I think the pureblood thing was just a lame plot device to explain why an asari would ever want to mate outside of their own species (which I think they would prefer if they had the choice, as they had been doing this for thousands of years). Maybe also to make us feel sorry for Liara...both are kind of dumb.

[Yeled]

I think the pureblood thing is indeed simply a cultural bias, but as such I think it makes some sense (not the genetic stuff, the bias). Asari have been mating with one another for most of their history. When they encountered the other species they must have discovered the other species were attracted to them, and new ideas about genetic variation, etc. etc., began infiltrating their more forward thinking members. As a race that prides itself on its progressive thinking and worldly wisdom, these ideas may have quickly spread throughout their culture.



Relatively quickly, then, those forward thinking, thought-leading, cultured Asari who are for the most part the leaders of the species and have dealings with the other races take mates among other species to "collect" the best traits of the galaxy, while those conservative Asari from the backwaters of Asari space remain genetically pure. And so a stigma attaches itself to breeding with other Asari: only the country bumpkins from deep Asari space do it, and they are wasting a valuable opportunity for the rest of us.



Add to that the legend of the AY, which is used as proof of how wrong intra-species mating is, and the fear that mating with any pureblood for the first time could result in the partner's death, and you have a perfect storm of cultural bias permeating the species as a whole.

[Yeled]

yorkj86 wrote...

EDIT: As for being able to attract other species, Mordin says that the asari produce pheromones, that can induce sexual arousal, even, somehow, in species that have no sexual appetites, like the salarians.  Humans don't respond to pheromones, either, but we, too, can be attracted by asari pheromones.  Impossible?  Yes, but this is a soft science-fiction setting.

What do you mean "humans don't respond to pheromones"?  Of course humans do.  What are you talking about?

[jlb524]

I'm sure pureblood pairings are more common in asari space.



LOL! How did this all start? Because of the supposed BW dev saying that the asari are a Reaper designed race created in order to collect genetic material from the others, right?

[Yeled]

yorkj86 wrote...

I think Pureblood pairings are more common than Bioware or asari will have us believe.  The player has seen first-hand many such pairings.  Liara is the product of a Pureblood pairing, and if she was born on Thessia, that's only slightly more proof.  Also, I would hardly call a cultural and technological marvel of a city like Nos Astra a "backwater".  Its known for being a center of trading is, thus bringing species from all over.

Right, I'm not talking about Nos Astra.  I'm talking about places in Asari space that don't see much of other species.

And I agree that Asari pairings happen quite often.  They are attracted to one another, afterall.  The temptation to be with one another likely happens constantly; its something Asari deal with on a day-to-day basis.

My point is that because of the bias they have developed only recently, the thought-leaders in their society see that temptation as largely negative.  There is a stigma attached to it.  They are supposed to resist the temptation that they constantly feel.

Many cannot do it, or are not willing to do it, or don't want to do it.  That doesn't stop other Asari from looking down on them for doing it.

My guess is that in deep Asari space where other species do not travel, there isn't much of a stigma against Asari pairings.  Its just in the civilized, cultural centers where the bias is strongest.

[Slakky]

I always imagined the back story for the asari to be that they were created for resale by a civilization that had a much better understanding of biological engineering than the current ones.  Idiots on 4chan aside.

They have no self-esteem and a physical attraction detached from their own species because it was a design goal.  All the other freaky powers are also built to order; the universal attractiveness is involuntary mind control on their part.

Indoctrination is really the grand asspull of Mass Effect canon.  Once you accept that, anything else can be reasonable.

[Yeled]

yorkj86 wrote...

It's never been proven that it's the pheromones we're responding to, and not something else.

Um...its pretty much mainstream scientific thought that humans respond to pheromones.  There have been a ton of studies that show that humans do, in fact, respond.  I doubt you'd have many biologists (who aren't kooks) agree that it isn't proven.

[jlb524]

The 'asari mind control' thing overheard at the Illium Bachelor Party was just a joke anyways...didn't a dev confirm that?

[Yeled]

yorkj86 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

It's never been proven that it's the pheromones we're responding to, and not something else.

Um...its pretty much mainstream scientific thought that humans respond to pheromones.  There have been a ton of studies that show that humans do, in fact, respond.  I doubt you'd have many biologists (who aren't kooks) agree that it isn't proven.

I'd debate it, but I'll eat my words, because it's not exactly related to the main discussion, anyway.

Even if its debatable (which I don't think it is), its hardly a fact that humans aren't influenced by pheromones and therefore your strong stance that its impossible is simply incorrect.  Anyway, I'll drop it as well.

[Slakky]

jlb524 wrote...

The 'asari mind control' thing overheard at the Illium Bachelor Party was just a joke anyways...didn't a dev confirm that?

Seems to work for Morinth anyway.

I think mind control is just more in line with the theme of the ME universe since we're all suspending disbelief that the reapers can create a magical difficult to detect field that can warp the mind of any species.

Universal pheromones would be no less of a jump I guess.

[tonnactus]

Yeled wrote...

I think the pureblood thing is indeed simply a cultural bias, but as such I think it makes some sense (not the genetic stuff, the bias). Asari have been mating with one another for most of their history. When they encountered the other species they must have discovered the other species were attracted to them, and new ideas about genetic variation, etc. etc., began infiltrating their more forward thinking members.

The asari were the first species that discovered the citadel and i guess the most scientific advanced race.
So some leaders created a myth and many asari believed that? Doesnt sound very reasonable for me.

[Yeled]

tonnactus wrote...

Yeled wrote...

I think the pureblood thing is indeed simply a cultural bias, but as such I think it makes some sense (not the genetic stuff, the bias). Asari have been mating with one another for most of their history. When they encountered the other species they must have discovered the other species were attracted to them, and new ideas about genetic variation, etc. etc., began infiltrating their more forward thinking members.

The asari were the first species that discovered the citadel and i guess the most scientific advanced race.
So some leaders created a myth and many asari believed that? Doesnt sound very reasonable for me.

No, no one created a myth.  Thought-leaders among their culture altered cultural expectations.  They may not have done it with deliberate intention.  Some of them concluded that their species would be better off for collecting the genetic material/codes of other species.  The idea caught on.  Eventually it became wide-spread, until it became a cultural norm...at least among the cultural leaders.

I don't see why this is hard to accept.  Its basically normal human behavior.  Why wouldn't it be the same for Asari?  Because they a advanced?

[Slakky]

yorkj86 wrote...

No self-esteem?  Also, "asari mind-control" is logistically impossible, barring widespread Prothean/Reaper meddling in all of the species in the current generation.  They'd really have to ask us to suspend disbelief in order to make it work, and I'd be done at that point, anyway.

I think Morinth says the recorded history of asari music spans 250,000 years.  They've been passed over for a few cycles like humans were passed over for the last one.  They could be as old as the reapers or just really, really old; nobody ever specifies.