50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Slakky]

yorkj86 wrote...

If we're talking about mind-control allowing the asari to appear different to each species, it doesn't make sense.  They'd appear as they really are to anyone communicating with them via FTL communication.  They'd appear as they really are when inspecting their corpses.  That sign outside Chora's Den would have to change depending upon what species is looking at it.

They don't have to look like the other species, they just have to be sexually attractive.  There are people who want to have sex with cars and the Eiffel tower, that's not really a reach.

yorkj86 wrote...

I assumed that a species is wiped out if it's come in to contact with the Citadel, or if it's come in to contact with a species that's come in to contact with the Ctadel.  For the asari, they found the Citadel before the last great extinction, but they may have been spacefaring before then.

Yeah that's kind of a sticking point.  They never really say how much the hanar left their homeworld, though it's implied that they had a decently close relation to the protheans.

It could be that the "retail" asari were a substantially different beast from the free roaming variety or that the reapers only do their reaping on technologically advanced worlds.

Modifié par Slakky, 26 août 2010 - 03:00 .

[IndigoWolfe]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but theoretically, I suppose it is possible that the asari have been influenced by the Reapers in some way, they were the first to discover the Citadel.

This makes me wonder something, about that vision-inducing Prothean sphere in ME1, the one that describes the life of a primitive human that was the subject of Prothean observation. It may be a wild, baseless wondering, but what if humans are the product of the Protheans manipulating asari genetics? And the sphere vision was a log of the Prothean's checking up on their experiment.

If indeed the asari were indeed influenced by the Reapers in some way, then to me, that would suggest that the asari were originally the Reaper's "favorite", by which I mean they were the race who were originally lined up to have a Reaper made out of their race.

That is, until the Protheans started messing about with their genetic code, thus creating humans. This could explain why the two races look so similar. And if the Protheans were messing about with the asari's genetic code, then possibly they did the same with themselves, and for this reason; the Prothean Reaper was a failure.

But like I said; I can't believe I'm saying this.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Yeled wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Yeled wrote...

I think the pureblood thing is indeed simply a cultural bias, but as such I think it makes some sense (not the genetic stuff, the bias). Asari have been mating with one another for most of their history. When they encountered the other species they must have discovered the other species were attracted to them, and new ideas about genetic variation, etc. etc., began infiltrating their more forward thinking members.

The asari were the first species that discovered the citadel and i guess the most scientific advanced race.
So some leaders created a myth and many asari believed that? Doesnt sound very reasonable for me.

No, no one created a myth.  Thought-leaders among their culture altered cultural expectations.  They may not have done it with deliberate intention.  Some of them concluded that their species would be better off for collecting the genetic material/codes of other species.  The idea caught on.  Eventually it became wide-spread, until it became a cultural norm...at least among the cultural leaders.

I don't see why this is hard to accept.  Its basically normal human behavior.  Why wouldn't it be the same for Asari?  Because they a advanced?

I really don't want to wade through 1800 pages while at work to find out if someone's already suggested this but...

If you talk to the Baria Frontiers spokeswoman on Nos Astra (the pureblood giving Shiala trouble), and ask her about asari needing other species to reproduce, she tells you that other species are only necessary to randomize genetic material and that drug or radiation treatments could be just as effective.  So it isn't a big deal, but it's still a deal.

We've only ever seen two asari 'families' together, Samara and Morinth, and Liara and Benezia.  Benezia and Liara are separated by about 900 years age-wise, but Samara and Morinth look almost identical.  It's pure speculation on my part, but it might be that a pureblood is closer to a clone than an actual daughter.  Before discovering other species, the asari may have been a more uniform race, with less diversity among individuals and certain bloodlines appearing dominant among the population.  Then they met other species, learned they could produce children with them, and suddenly the first truly unique asari began to be born.

Also, there's the fact that most other races have far shorter lifespans than the asari, and the first they encountered were the salarians, who have the shortest lifespans of them all.  They think, adapt and probably evolve as a culture faster than the asari; a more energetic and ambitious species all around.  This may have encouraged the asari to emrace diversity as a unifying philosophy, and a means of securing their place in galactic society.

[jlb524]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

If you talk to the Baria Frontiers spokeswoman on Nos Astra (the pureblood giving Shiala trouble), and ask her about asari needing other species to reproduce, she tells you that other species are only necessary to randomize genetic material and that drug or radiation treatments could be just as effective.  So it isn't a big deal, but it's still a deal.

I've always wondered if there was some truth to this.  That asari could develop some form of radiation treatment that would make them needing a partner to reproduce obsolete.

[Yeled]

jlb524 wrote...

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

If you talk to the Baria Frontiers spokeswoman on Nos Astra (the pureblood giving Shiala trouble), and ask her about asari needing other species to reproduce, she tells you that other species are only necessary to randomize genetic material and that drug or radiation treatments could be just as effective.  So it isn't a big deal, but it's still a deal.

I've always wondered if there was some truth to this.  That asari could develop some form of radiation treatment that would make them needing a partner to reproduce obsolete.

But its not a randomizer, really.  The in-game theory, at least, is that they are getting the best traits from their partners.  Or at least other traits from their partners, among them being the best and, presumably, the worst as well.  But if Asari are selective in their mates when they choose to mate with other species, as presumably they would be (isn't everyone selective in their mates to some degree or another), that non-Asari with whom an individual chooses to mate would represent something attractive to that Asari...therefore they would be bringing in "attractive" traits, which one could say are theoretically the best.

There's nothing random about it, anymore than human reproduction is random.  The whole point is to choose healthy, attractive mates, thus selecting for the best traits to pass to the next generation.

Modifié par Yeled, 26 août 2010 - 03:52 .

[jlb524]

Yeled wrote...

But its not a randomizer, really.  The in-game theory, at least, is that they are getting the best traits from their partners.  Or at least other traits from their partners, among them being the best and, presumably, the worst as well. 

I thought that was an 'old-wives tale' and not scientifically proven, though.

[IndigoWolfe]

jlb524 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

But its not a randomizer, really.  The in-game theory, at least, is that they are getting the best traits from their partners.  Or at least other traits from their partners, among them being the best and, presumably, the worst as well. 

I thought that was an 'old-wives tale' and not scientifically proven, though.

I have a hunch that a lot of that is psychological. As in, a turian would raise their daughter differently than a krogan would.

[Yeled]

yorkj86 wrote...


This is what we've been debating, and it's something that both Liara and the Codex admit have yet to be proven.  In ME2, we are told that the "mother" doesn't actually take any genes from the "father", she just uses them to randomize her own genetic code, when passing on genetic information to the two sets of data she passes on to the zygote.  She's not putting more letters and numbers in to a Bingo tumbler, to use a simile, the presence of the "father" is just the hand that turns the Bingo tumbler.

True, but the person who tells us this is clealy biased against non-Asari.  Her perspective, as has been discussed, is tainted.  We can't take it as truth.

Another possible scenario is that the "father" acts as a "selector," whose own genes match up with genes already in the Asari genetic code and select them for the daughter-to-be.  Think of the father's genes acting as magnets, except each of the father's genes only attracts certain Asari genes.  Then depending on the father's genetic code, certain Asari genes are pulled out or selected that match up.

[Yeled]

jlb524 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

But its not a randomizer, really.  The in-game theory, at least, is that they are getting the best traits from their partners.  Or at least other traits from their partners, among them being the best and, presumably, the worst as well. 

I thought that was an 'old-wives tale' and not scientifically proven, though.

Maybe, but if that's the case then Asari reproduction is pretty much useless except as a catalyst.  Asari wouldn't need to be at all selective in whom they mate with, because it wouldn't matter at all.  And if that's the case why would they evolve to be attracted to one individual over another?  It would be a totally unecessary trait.  Choosing partners would be irrelevant if all you need is a catalyst.  You'd basically decide to have a child and turn to the nearest creature available and get at it. 

I suppose it could be a vestage of a time when Asari did reproduce sexually, but that would be the only explanation.

[Slakky]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

That is, until the Protheans started messing about with their genetic code, thus creating humans. This could explain why the two races look so similar.

If you're going to be in the business of engineering servants, making humans from asari is basically like turning your Rolls into a Kia.

[Yeled]

yorkj86 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

True, but the person who tells us this is clealy biased against non-Asari.  Her perspective, as has been discussed, is tainted.  We can't take it as truth.

Another possible scenario is that the "father" acts as a "selector," whose own genes match up with genes already in the Asari genetic code and select them for the daughter-to-be.  Think of the father's genes acting as magnets, except each of the father's genes only attracts certain Asari genes.  Then depending on the father's genetic code, certain Asari genes are pulled out or selected that match up.

Liara has the bias of ignorance.  I'm not seeing why we should take what she says over what the asari on Illium says.

That's fair, except that a "randomizer" would mean that selecting a mate would be inherently useless, and therefore Asari shouldn't be attracted to one individual over another.  So logically I'd go with Liara, if only because her theory makes more sense.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

yorkj86 wrote...
This assumes that there is a difference between a child from an asari/non-asari pairing and a child from an asari/asari pairing.  That assumption is what we've been debating the past few pages.  Bioware has made this a very convoluted matter.

Nono, I get that.  I'm suggesting that the difference between pureblood/nonpurebloods is that the pureblood is essentially a clone of the mother.  Granted, it's based only on Samara/Morinth, but that's literally the only evidence I can think of for a demonstrable difference between purebloods and other asari.

[Sigilius]

It has been implied that the idea that the genetic code of the second parent is indeed utilized. Comments by some asari (ie the bartender, the asari talking about her friend having a "batarian father", etc.) lead me to believe that the community is divided on whether or not the second parent actually contributes, despite prevailing 'scientific evidence'.

Personally, I think that because the asari can be attracted to one individual over another, it must hold true that different beings possess different traits, desirable or otherwise. I think that they do not simply 'randomize' the mother's existing DNA, because then nothing would be gained, which is the ultimate error in asari views. They'd just have variations of the same DNA, and ultimately their genetic pool would stagnate. It stands to reason that the asari select desirable traits from other species, traits that aren't specifically native to a species (ie toughness, intelligence, stamina, etc.) They don't receive the 'father's' eyes, but they can receive inherent personality traits, things that the asari are always looking to grow from.

A randomizer would be completely useless. The asari would not be equipped to mate with other species if this held true. There would be no reason to look beyond other asari, since they would contribute nothing, and a pureblood child would be identical to a child of a human or a turian. This is impossible, since Ardat-Yakshi occur solely in pureblood relationships (something I assume runs along the lines of inbreeding). How would the child be determined as an Ardat-Yakshi, if indeed the second parent had nothing to contribtue? There would be no difference between a human parent and an asari parent, and therefore Ardat-Yakshi should be a possible result of all unions, not just asari-asari. But since they are not, it stands to reason that pureblood children run the risk of inbreeding's effects, i.e. Ardat-Yakshiism (is that even a word?). Other species offer something different, and this difference is obviously received.

There's also the belief that asari inherit some physical traits. Maybe not something the father species displays themselves, but when translated by the asari's nervous system, becomes something entirely new. Like a recessive trait. (Examples include some asari's scaly head fringes (salarian or turian father?), facial markings/colors, etc.) Even the bartender, who's face I always thought was rather more hard and plain than other asari, rather lacking the beauty (don't get me wrong, I love the bartender), says she had a krogan father. Perhaps children of krogan rely less on beauty, since their parents obviously do not. (I know she's also very old, a matriarch, etc., but all other examples of asari not born of krogan display similar levels of 'prettiness'.) Liara herself said that asari seek out other species to aquire new traits and 'grow as a society'.

Evolution: it's elementary, my dear Watson.

Modifié par Sigilius, 26 août 2010 - 04:41 .

[jlb524]

Yeled wrote...

Maybe, but if that's the case then Asari reproduction is pretty much useless except as a catalyst.  Asari wouldn't need to be at all selective in whom they mate with, because it wouldn't matter at all.  And if that's the case why would they evolve to be attracted to one individual over another?  It would be a totally unecessary trait.  Choosing partners would be irrelevant if all you need is a catalyst.  You'd basically decide to have a child and turn to the nearest creature available and get at it. 

I suppose it could be a vestage of a time when Asari did reproduce sexually, but that would be the only explanation.

I think they just care about more than the genetics (as I believe the genetics of the 'father' do not matter) when choosing who to mate with.  For example, they may want someone who they believe would make a good parent, or would make a good partner to them, or they just have romantic feelings towards, etc.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I wonder if the DLC will reference to the Illium cameo? It should atleast IMO.

And most people in here proberly wouldn't be able to bear it. But I wouldn't mind having one or more conversation between Shepard and Liara go all Horizon. With Shepard getting angry at Liara for giving him the cold shoulder (if you didn't discover the reason why) and make him feel she's abandond him, to Liara getting angry at Shepard for being a brick.

Could be dramatic.

[IndigoWolfe]

Lizardviking wrote...

I wonder if the DLC will reference to the Illium cameo? It should atleast IMO.

And most people in here proberly wouldn't be able to bear it. But I wouldn't mind having one or more conversation between Shepard and Liara go all Horizon. With Shepard getting angry at Liara for giving him the cold shoulder (if you didn't discover the reason why) and make him feel she's abandond him, to Liara getting angry at Shepard for being a brick.

Could be dramatic.

I think an arguement would give the Liara romance an entire new level of depth. But the writing would have to be given the lightest, most feather-esque of touches. There would be very little to no room for error.

As I've said in the past; a relationship is proven just as much during the hard times as the good. Perhaps even more.

[IndigoWolfe]

*Furgin' double post.*




Because post re-cycling is good for the Forum environment! 

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 26 août 2010 - 04:44 .

[pf17456]

[quote]yorkj86 wrote...



[/quote]



This is what we've been debating, and it's something that both Liara and the Codex admit have yet to be proven. In ME2, we are told that the "mother" doesn't actually take any genes from the "father", she just uses them to randomize her own genetic code, when passing on genetic information to the two sets of data she passes on to the zygote. She's not putting more letters and numbers in to a Bingo tumbler, to use a simile, the presence of the "father" is just the hand that turns the Bingo tumbler.



[/quote]



I'm inclined to think the Baria Frontier Asari's comments are colored with a defensive bias. Seems to me it would be pointless to mate with other species if there is nothing really to be gained, I mean why make such a big deal about Asari being capable of cross species mating if there is no real point to it. The concept of an Asari being able to select 'the best a partner has to offer' makes more sense to me and seems to fit more with what is presented in the game about the Asari. The ability to add desirable qualities to the Asari genepool taken from other species casts an adaptive and almost formidable light on Asari consistant with most of the other species inherent attempts to vie for domination a/o survival. Whereas Krogan, Human, Turian utilize aggression as a means of survival Asari use seduction. In this manner the Asari will eventually encompass the best of what all life in the galaxy has to offer leaving the Asari in a position of being capable of galactic leadershp since at some point there will be an Asari with the genitic traits of all galactic life. Perhaps this is a yet unmentioned Asari goal but it seems to fit , at least in my opinion.

[jlb524]

Lizardviking wrote...

I wonder if the DLC will reference to the Illium cameo? It should atleast IMO.

I would surely hope so...would be dumb to forget about that.

Lizardviking wrote...
And most people in here proberly wouldn't be able to bear it. But I wouldn't mind having one or more conversation between Shepard and Liara go all Horizon. With Shepard getting angry at Liara for giving him the cold shoulder (if you didn't discover the reason why) and make him feel she's abandond him, to Liara getting angry at Shepard for being a brick.

Could be dramatic.

I have no problem with this, if executed well.  As I've mentioned, Liara has a lot of emotions bottled up inside of her...anger is just one of them.   I couldn't blame her for taking some of it out on Shepard.