50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

When I said you had an opinionated version, I suppose I meant that you have a very strong opinion about your version that you tend to get rather worked up about. And that's entirely your perogative, just as long as you remain civil.

For the record, I also think that Tali and Garrus aren't going to return for ME3. That being said, the cameos in ME2 were for the most part bad, and I wouldn't wish them on any character.

Bioware messed up with the LI cameos in ME2. They made a mistake and I for one do not think Bioware are looking to repeat it, and secondly, I'd be very disappointed were Bioware to do it on purpose, as what you're suggesting is coming of as.

I am well aware that Im allowed to speak my mind on these things, and that if others dont like it, thats tough.

Also, you obviously dont have a proper understanding of my views on the issue. Just because I support characters who are dead for a lot of players not having the MASSIVE amounts of resources necessary to make squadmates spent on them doesnt mean I think they are going to deliberately mess up the cameos a second time.

I think Wrex was a succesful cameo for a potentially dead squadmate. I would like to see a repeat for Wrex, and an equivalent cameo for most of the ME2 squad.

Its not a question of "wishing them on characters" out of spite, its a question of getting what they deserve.

You dont want characters getting cameos in ME3? Too bad, thats a probable outcome for going on a suicide mission. Bioware have hardly been misleading about this, they outlined the dangers numerous times, especially to those of us who were upset that our favoured characters werent returning for ME2. Its been said more than once in reply to "why arent our LIs returning" that "not everyone that is going on this mission will come back alive, and we want to make sure that doesnt happen to the ME1 LIs because we are saving them for ME3".

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 27 août 2010 - 01:06 .

[bjdbwea]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

The squad WILL be reset again before ME3. It is inevitable, otherwise Bioware has lied about making each game accessible to newcomers, and "standalone".

Stranger things have happened. Just now, there's a discussion in the DA forums because someone from BioWare called DA 2 an action RPG, even though they initially promised and developed the DA series to be a spiritual successor to the BG series. Point being, what BioWare said a few years ago doesn't necessarily have to match with what they do now, especially since EA calls the shots.

[IndigoWolfe]

I was thinking about the romance content in LotSB and how cheating would be adressed and I had an epiphany.

Bioware might recton things into a love triangle. As in, there will be the romance content, and Shepard will still not have the option of breaking it off with Liara or even bring up the fact that they went behind her back.

Right now, I can imagine this being the case quite clearly.

And I hate love triangles.

But I always remain loyal, so it won't be my problem either way.

[jtav]

I despise love triangles in most instances. It can be done well, but most of the time they just make the focal point (Shepard, in this case) look like an idiot who can't make a decision. With one exception, most of my Shepards who had romances in both games legitimately want to stay with their ME2 choice and regard the first relationship as over. But, no, Bioware will probably go for the cheap "drama."

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

bjdbwea wrote...

Stranger things have happened. Just now, there's a discussion in the DA forums because someone from BioWare called DA 2 an action RPG, even though they initially promised and developed the DA series to be a spiritual successor to the BG series. Point being, what BioWare said a few years ago doesn't necessarily have to match with what they do now, especially since EA calls the shots.

Theres a big difference though, since these things have been said recently, and under EAs influence.

Ultimately, keeping the ME2 squad would be expensive, restrictive, and not at all an intelligent move. They have problems with it not being at all "standalone", or simply a choice between which fans to "punish" (which is something Bioware dont do with their choices and effects, period). They can either make the default everyone is alive, so that ME2 importers are punished with a smaller squad, or make default dead characters and punish newcomers.

Thats before we even get to having to develop and write these characters, and all the problems retaining them as squadmates seamlessly would entail.

We saw what happened with 12 squadmates in ME2 instead of 6: half the content, even with their "loyalty missions", and next to no unique integration into the plot. Trying that again for potentially dead squadmates, adding on top MORE that need to be added as new faces, and it starts to look ridiculous.

I can see no previous squadmates returning as a potential outcome, and only new faces making up the ME3 squad, but not the whole ME2 squad or even just the majority making the transition to ME3 remaining as squadmates.

Not one squadmate in ME2, not even Miranda (who has the best chances of making it as a squadmate in ME3 IMO) has ever expressed any indication in dialogue of "sticking around with you to fight the reapers".

Youd kind of think they would at least mention it, but its solely focused on the suicide mission instead. Even after its completion, they merely congratulate you so to speak, but no talk of what lies ahead with the reapers, and how they are sticking around for that.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 27 août 2010 - 01:35 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Stranger things have happened. Just now, there's a discussion in the DA forums because someone from BioWare called DA 2 an action RPG, even though they initially promised and developed the DA series to be a spiritual successor to the BG series. Point being, what BioWare said a few years ago doesn't necessarily have to match with what they do now, especially since EA calls the shots.

Theres a big difference though, since these things have been said recently, and under EAs influence.

Ultimately, keeping the ME2 squad would be expensive, restrictive, and not at all an intelligent move. They have problems with it not being at all "standalone", or simply a choice between which fans to "punish" (which is something Bioware dont do with their choices and effects, period). They can either make the default everyone is alive, so that ME2 importers are punished with a smaller squad, or make default dead characters and punish newcomers.

Thats before we even get to having to develop and write these characters, and all the problems retaining them as squadmates seamlessly would entail.

We saw what happened with 12 squadmates in ME2 instead of 6: half the content, even with their "loyalty missions", and next to no unique integration into the plot. Trying that again for potentially dead squadmates, adding on top MORE that need to be added as new faces, and it starts to look ridiculous.

I can see no previous squadmates returning as a potential outcome, and only new faces making up the ME3 squad, but not the whole ME2 squad or even just the majority making the transition to ME3 remaining as squadmates.

Not one squadmate in ME2, not even Miranda (who has the best chances of making it as a squadmate in ME3 IMO) has ever expressed any indication in dialogue of "sticking around with you to fight the reapers".

Youd kind of think they would at least mention it, but its solely focused on the suicide mission instead. Even after its completion, they merely congratulate you so to speak, but no talk of what lies ahead with the reapers, and how they are sticking around for that.

Wrex like cameos seems like a solid bet for alot of the squadmates in ME3. Althrough I will imagine that they will add one or two as squadmates, if only to appease the ME2 fans.

I think it's inventiable that some of the ME2 Li's will get sidelined, I just wonder what the responds will be when it happens.

[jtav]

I think most of them will eventually adjust, more or less. As much as I like Liara, I admit that the idea of only one set of LIs getting romantic continuation (as squadmates or otherwise) does bother me because it makes one choice seem less legitimate than another

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

I dont think the entire ME2 squad will get cameod, because you look at some, and the ability for Bioware to read player data, and you think one or two could make the transition.

As for romance continuation, all would get it, its just some would see it alter the cameos significantly, while others would see it simply alter a few dialogues in a "re-romance" perhaps.

Generally though this idea of "romance fairness" is what makes me think its a very likely possibility that Bioware might simply cameo all previous characters, romances included. Im hopeful that the ME1 LIs might return as characters able to be romanced again by those who started in 1, or those who cheated, or simply want to start a romance with them in ME3, be they new or old players. However, I somehow doubt thats likely.

Perhaps the Liara DLC might give a better idea of what to expect from the ME1 LIs in ME3, or if its going to be an indicator of another sideline role for Liara in ME3 too.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 27 août 2010 - 03:49 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I dont think the entire ME2 squad will get cameod, because you look at some, and the ability for Bioware to read player data, and you think one or two could make the transition.

As for romance continuation, all would get it, its just some would see it alter the cameos significantly, while others would see it simply alter a few dialogues in a "re-romance" perhaps.

Generally though, this idea of "romance fairness" is what makes me think its a very likely possibility that Bioware might simply cameo all previous characters, romances included. Im hopeful that the ME1 LIs might return as characters able to be romanced again by those who started in 1, or those who cheated, or simply want to start a romance with them in ME3, be they new or old players. However, I somehow doubt thats likely.

Perhaps the Liara DLC might give a better idea of what to expect from the ME1 LIs in ME3, or if its going to be an indicator of another sideline role for Liara in ME3 too.

I would hate for Bioware to go all "romance fairness" in ME3, simply because there weren't show any to us in ME2 maingame. So I'll be pissed off if Liara gets cameo'd just because the ME2 LI's could get themselves killed.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Lizardviking wrote...

I would hate for Bioware to go all "romance fairness" in ME3, simply because there weren't show any to us in ME2 maingame. So I'll be pissed off if Liara gets cameo'd just because the ME2 LI's could get themselves killed.

Thats the way I feel too, but who knows, especially with this new Liara DLC.

Maybe they should do DLC for the 6 ME2 LIs in ME3, where on top of their roles in the game, they can add in additional content as well, some of which extents the romance content. After all, its what they are doing with us.

Still, Im hoping nothing changes in regards to ME3 in this latest DLC, but you never know. Im hoping it doesnt spell out a role heading the Shadow Brokers organisation for Liara in ME3. Lets be honest here, with everything thats been left unfinished, I dont see the need for "brokering information" when the galaxy is being invaded by the reapers. Hopefully it will instead offer a role that keeps Liara busy until ME3, and also leaves the door open for her reintroduction.

[jtav]

It's less "they can give themselves killed" and more that there are now nine LIs spread across two games. Four seems to be about Bioware's limit. If you thought ME2 was bad... The fairness problem is that one set of LIs (doesn't matter which) would get two game and the other would get one.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Yes, but in all honesty, ME is still supposed to be a trilogy, and I think although its unfair, it would be in the best interests of the trilogy to have the romances from ME1 be squadmates and romances again in ME3. Bioware have been really crafty about the way in which they "carry over" decisions, and having the ME1 romances offer a sense of "completion" to something that started in ME1 should be important. Even if it probably was only an illusion, with the romance not playing out much differently to someone who could potentially start it in ME3.

[tom.bleaker]

If a LI is a "love" interest and not the ME universe equivalent of a "Bond girl" it seems silly that you would have no interaction with an LI across all three games (or 2 games for ME2 LIs). Sure, relationships end... but by allowing Shep to remain "faithful" to the ME LI in ME2, implies you as a player have some choice in the matter.

[IndigoWolfe]

Not really a contribution to the discussion, but; I had this wierd dream were a LotSB trailer released at Gamescom was a Mass Effect version of the "Poker Face" music video.

Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 27 août 2010 - 04:29 .

[EvilIguana966]

I for one am sorry to see that Dinkamus has returned. This thread was much more peaceful without his constant antagonism and rudeness.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

EvilIguana966 wrote...

I for one am sorry to see that Dinkamus has returned. This thread was much more peaceful without his constant antagonism and rudeness.

Oh please shut up and get on topic. If you cant take a little difference of opinion, maybe you should go join one of the many groups that prohibit that kind of behavior. I havent broken a single rule, so keep your whining to yourself.

[Yeled]

I haven't been around either, so Dinkamus' "antagonistic" and "rude" posts have been constant and seamless as far as I'm concerned. Frankly I don't mind them at all, but then again I share many of his opinions, so its hard for me to find fault.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Just ignore it Yeled. Some people might like being the topic of conversation, but certain peoples exagerrated accusations against me arent worth being that, and not related to Liara, so in that regard are also off topic.

Personally, getting back on topic, Ive been trying to visualise how exactly this DLC is going to end. Im thinking the ending is perhaps going to be one of the biggest clues as to what to expect from Liara in the future (ME3).

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 27 août 2010 - 07:00 .

[Marcin K]

gotta go, cya all tomorrow

[Yeled]

Frankly I think the ME3 squad will be mostly new, with a few carry overs from the previous games. My guess is that Bioware will allow romances to continue as cameo's for some characters, while other romances carry on with squad mates (including LIs from among the new squad mates).



I hope, hope, hope that Liara will be on the squad, but I'm certainly not very sure she will be.

[jtav]

I'd actually prefer she wasn't, after Tali/Garrus' paltry dialogue. I'd prefer she take TIM's questgiver/mission control role. I'm pretty sure he had more lines than Garrus "Calibrations" Vakarian. Add in a little romance dialogue and you're golden.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Yeled wrote...

Frankly I think the ME3 squad will be mostly new, with a few carry overs from the previous games. My guess is that Bioware will allow romances to continue as cameo's for some characters, while other romances carry on with squad mates (including LIs from among the new squad mates).

I hope, hope, hope that Liara will be on the squad, but I'm certainly not very sure she will be.

Same here. One thing you cant fault Liaras ME2 cameo for was the ability to ask her to join. Bioware at least gave us that option in abundance, like they knew we would want to. Hopefully this DLC is similar, in that you get to ask if she can be a permanent squadmate but that she still has a few more responsibilities until she can fully rejoin.

Really though, Im not sure about which way ME3 will go in terms of squad. Blank slate so it shafts all previous players equally? Or will they make the "saved for ME3" mean something substantial?

If the ME2 squad do get supporting roles in ME3, as part of Biowares claims that choices will have a greater impact, Id like to see the choice of romancing them or not have a HUGE impact on any ME2 LIs that get supporting roles in ME3.

One thing I dont doubt though is the squad being mostly new as you say. I think too many things point to it, even the simple nature of Bioware games. People afraid of having to recruit a team again are out of luck, since I cant remember a Bioware title, sequel or no, where it WASNT a facet of the game. Shoving an full or even semi complete squad on new players doesnt seem to mesh with what Bioware wants for ME3 based on their talk about it so far.

Anyways, thats all Ive got for now. Im kinda hoping Tuesday will be a date we learn some more about the DLC, what with the whole "one week to release" part of it.

[WilliamShatner]

I wouldn't be surprised if this DLC is the last we see of Liara barring a small bit in an epilogue in ME3.

[Yeled]

jtav wrote...

I'd actually prefer she wasn't, after Tali/Garrus' paltry dialogue. I'd prefer she take TIM's questgiver/mission control role. I'm pretty sure he had more lines than Garrus "Calibrations" Vakarian. Add in a little romance dialogue and you're golden.

That wouldn't necessarily be bad, though there's something to be said for fighting along side your LI.  I like Garrus and Tali mostly because I fought along side them.  Especially Garrus, who I agree had nothing worthwhile to say at all in ME2.  But he was my wingman, like he was for many.

[Yeled]

WilliamShatner wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if this DLC is the last we see of Liara barring a small bit in an epilogue in ME3.

Possibly.  Whatever happens, the fate of Liara T'Soni is probably the most significant thing about this dlc.  I don't have extremely high hopes for it based on the Kasumi dlc, though I'm going to purchase it no matter what to show my support of the character.  Or maybe that's inaccurate.  I'm prepared for the dlc to not be what we all hope it will be, but I'm hoping its will be what we've all been expecting it to be...if that makes any sense.

Anyway, yeah...this dlc will almost certainly set up Liara's role in ME3, for better or worse.