50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You guys really don't trust or value Liara and her strength of character at all, do you? Big, brave, virtuous Shepard has to ride in on a white horse to save poor, weak-willed, innocent Liara from the power that she can't handle.

What a load of old sexist drivel. Total crap. Pick another LI if you want a weak-willed, innocent, subservient, and powerless little wallflower that you can use, control and dictate to as you please. Liara could provide the erroneous illusion of that ME1, but not any more. She's a powerful, capable, strong, assertive and independant young woman. Can't handle that, or feel threatened by her? DEAL WITH IT.

Gee. Relax abit?


I don't think she's gonna betray Shepard at all or go on some mad power trip. Sure there's a possibilty when you got so much power at your disposal. But my Shepard would trust her enough to think she knows what she's doing.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You guys really don't trust or value Liara and her strength of character at all, do you? Big, brave, virtuous Shepard has to ride in on a white horse to save poor, weak-willed, innocent Liara from the power that she can't handle.

What a load of old sexist drivel. Total crap. Pick another LI if you want a weak-willed, innocent, subservient, and powerless little wallflower that you can use, control and dictate to as you please. Liara could provide the erroneous illusion of that ME1, but not any more. She's a powerful, capable, strong, assertive and independant young woman. Can't handle that, or feel threatened by her? DEAL WITH IT.

Such venom Mr.Terribles.

So how's the Liara loving going?

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 16 septembre 2010 - 09:37 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote..
So how's the Liara loving going?

Fine. I'm quite glad on how my fanfic turned out, most people seemed to have enjoyed it.

[Nerevar-as]

Only thing to fear is that Liara gets a bit of god complex with the power she has now. Even if trying to do good things, the potential to screw up is big. Unless SB is critical to keep a sane political balance to the galaxy, best thing would be to destroy it all after Reapers are dealt with. It would be interesting to know how the previous SB(s?) acted, their defining trait seemed to be a lack of moral concerns. Liara doesn´t seem like the kind of character to go there. And in this I hope Shepard can NOT influence her in that direction as s/he could with Kaidan/Ashley´s alien views in ME1

[Stormy-B]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You guys really don't trust or value Liara and her strength of character at all, do you? Big, brave, virtuous Shepard has to ride in on a white horse to save poor, weak-willed, innocent Liara from the power that she can't handle.

What a load of old sexist drivel. Total crap. Pick another LI if you want a weak-willed, innocent, subservient, and powerless little wallflower that you can use, control and dictate to as you please. Liara could provide the erroneous illusion of that ME1, but not any more. She's a powerful, capable, strong, assertive and independant young woman. Can't handle that, or feel threatened by her? DEAL WITH IT.

I would trust Liara with my life if she was real. BioWares writers however? Not so much.

Edit: Yes, I'm aware that they have done a good job so far, and especially on LotSB. But still... Liaras behaviour rests in their hands, and it takes only one person that gets a "great" idea to make a character go F.U.B.A.R.

Modifié par Stormy-B, 16 septembre 2010 - 10:01 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

I'm loggin off now. Cya tomorrow everyone!

I might write some more fanfic due to the positive results. But it's a "might" so no gurrante.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 16 septembre 2010 - 10:21 .

[Newnation]

I'm kind of wondering if in ME3 or future dlc if she will have to pick between her relationship/friendship with Shephard or to continue being the Shadow Broker.

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You guys really don't trust or value Liara and her strength of character at all, do you? Big, brave, virtuous Shepard has to ride in on a white horse to save poor, weak-willed, innocent Liara from the power that she can't handle.

What a load of old sexist drivel. Total crap. Pick another LI if you want a weak-willed, innocent, subservient, and powerless little wallflower that you can use, control and dictate to as you please. Liara could provide the erroneous illusion of that ME1, but not any more. She's a powerful, capable, strong, assertive and independant young woman. Can't handle that, or feel threatened by her? DEAL WITH IT.

Indeed. 

That's a great b-day present, btw.

[1490]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You guys really don't trust or value Liara and her strength of character at all, do you? Big, brave, virtuous Shepard has to ride in on a white horse to save poor, weak-willed, innocent Liara from the power that she can't handle.

What a load of old sexist drivel. Total crap. Pick another LI if you want a weak-willed, innocent, subservient, and powerless little wallflower that you can use, control and dictate to as you please. Liara could provide the erroneous illusion of that ME1, but not any more. She's a powerful, capable, strong, assertive and independant young woman. Can't handle that, or feel threatened by her? DEAL WITH IT.

Personally, I don't think any of the love interests in ME 2 are subservient or "damsels in distress."  Liara, Jack, Tali, and Miranda are all intelligent, assertive characters with their own goals and areas of expertise.  I think in general Bioware does a pretty good job of putting female characters on an equal level and making them endearing to male and female players.  If you want to argue who out of the LIs is the most subservient, it's probably Jacob, haha.

[almostinsane]

HomicidialFrog wrote...

Liara: Bahahahaha. Quick Shepard! Tell the Krogan the Turians plan to launch the Genophage on them again. The resulting war will be hilarious!

Shepard: ...Liara I think you've gone powermad.

Liara: WHAT?! SHUT UP AND DO IT!

Shepard: Okay! Okay! Stop shouting...

Liara: Being the Shadow Broker is GREAT!

Feron: Aren't you ever gonna you know, stop taking orders from her? I mean she loves you enough to probally give up this power hunger for you. Why not demand that's you or the Shadow Broker?

Shepard: Meh, it makes her happy.

(Background) Liara: MUHAHAHAHA! Take this Palaven! *Planet buster*

Shepard: And, to be honest, I'm sick of being jerked around. Starting wars is fun.

Liara: Shepard, I have something to show you!

Shepard: Oh, and the sex is great. Screw the Galaxy.

[jlb524]

1490 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You guys really don't trust or value Liara and her strength of character at all, do you? Big, brave, virtuous Shepard has to ride in on a white horse to save poor, weak-willed, innocent Liara from the power that she can't handle.

What a load of old sexist drivel. Total crap. Pick another LI if you want a weak-willed, innocent, subservient, and powerless little wallflower that you can use, control and dictate to as you please. Liara could provide the erroneous illusion of that ME1, but not any more. She's a powerful, capable, strong, assertive and independant young woman. Can't handle that, or feel threatened by her? DEAL WITH IT.

Personally, I don't think any of the love interests in ME 2 are subservient or "damsels in distress."  Liara, Jack, Tali, and Miranda are all intelligent, assertive characters with their own goals and areas of expertise.  I think in general Bioware does a pretty good job of putting female characters on an equal level and making them endearing to male and female players.  If you want to argue who out of the LIs is the most subservient, it's probably Jacob, haha.

I think Les' post was aimed towards fan attitudes and not BioWare themselves.  I agree that BW usually does a great job with female characters.

[pf17456]

Absolute power corrupts is an interesting concept with regard to the situation Liara now finds herself in. Likely a concept that will be addressed in some form as the story progresses. In fact it already has where Liara mentions she could start a war in ten minutes and then qualifies it saying her alliance with Shepard will keep her honest. I suppose BW could leave it at that but it would depend on where BW wants to take Liara's story, either paragon or renegade ending in death or happily ever after. I don't think being corrupted would serve as a useful transition tool toward squadmate status because if corruption is in your heart a change in location won't make a difference because Liara will be the source of corruption. Should Shepard see a change early and intervene it could work as a transition tool but Liara would loose whatever independence she has gained and I think that would ruin her character. Of course Shepard could join her in her corruption and they could become the overlords of the galaxy and destroy or kill off everyone they don't like but I doubt BW will go there nor would I want them to, I like the idea of a happy ending for Liara and Shepard much more.

I think if BW was to create a story arc for ME3 that ends on a sadistically sour note with either Shepard, Liara or any other LI having to die would cast a veil of doubt and distrust over BW.

Fallout 3 originally ended with a dead hero and it was altered because that ending just hurt the company producing the game.

BW is on the verge of being able to produce an ending that's Epic in nature and leaves people feeling good inside which would lead to many allocades and furthur success but if they play 'gotcha' they'll sabotage themselves. I doubt they will. I want BW to succeed and I believe a possible 'blue baby' or a bondmate ending would accomplish success moreso than an ending filled with sorrow and disappointment.

Absolute power corrupts absolutly but Love conquers all

[1490]

jlb524 wrote...

1490 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You guys really don't trust or value Liara and her strength of character at all, do you? Big, brave, virtuous Shepard has to ride in on a white horse to save poor, weak-willed, innocent Liara from the power that she can't handle.

What a load of old sexist drivel. Total crap. Pick another LI if you want a weak-willed, innocent, subservient, and powerless little wallflower that you can use, control and dictate to as you please. Liara could provide the erroneous illusion of that ME1, but not any more. She's a powerful, capable, strong, assertive and independant young woman. Can't handle that, or feel threatened by her? DEAL WITH IT.

Personally, I don't think any of the love interests in ME 2 are subservient or "damsels in distress."  Liara, Jack, Tali, and Miranda are all intelligent, assertive characters with their own goals and areas of expertise.  I think in general Bioware does a pretty good job of putting female characters on an equal level and making them endearing to male and female players.  If you want to argue who out of the LIs is the most subservient, it's probably Jacob, haha.

I think Les' post was aimed towards fan attitudes and not BioWare themselves.  I agree that BW usually does a great job with female characters.

Actually, I was trying to agree with and add to his argument that you can't see the female LIs as subservient, because none of them are written that way.  Now that I look back on what I wrote though, it did kind of look like I was contesting his statement.  I meant to agree, I guess I'm just dumb when typing today, lol.

[Tpolsconsort]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

You guys really don't trust or value Liara and her strength of character at all, do you? Big, brave, virtuous Shepard has to ride in on a white horse to save poor, weak-willed, innocent Liara from the power that she can't handle.

What a load of old sexist drivel. Total crap. Pick another LI if you want a weak-willed, innocent, subservient, and powerless little wallflower that you can use, control and dictate to as you please. Liara could provide the erroneous illusion of that ME1, but not any more. She's a powerful, capable, strong, assertive and independant young woman. Can't handle that, or feel threatened by her? DEAL WITH IT.

I am not so sure about that. Nothing in my playthroughs of ME1 and 2 lead me to believe Liara is assertive. At the same time I don't see her as lacking will either. The two don't have to go hand in hand even if it is a lazy cliche nowadays. I see her more as somewhat unsure about Shepard's feelings towards her and Liara wanting to show herself the love she has for him is more than some simple crush and she can be Shepard's savior as he was her's. LotSB showed without a doubt Liara can and is.  Whether or not that leads to some sort of save Liara from herself scenario remains to be seen. I don't personally see it as a logical extension of her character but Bioware will do what they do. 

[Unit-Alpha]

pf17456 wrote...

Absolute power corrupts is an interesting concept with regard to the situation Liara now finds herself in. Likely a concept that will be addressed in some form as the story progresses. In fact it already has where Liara mentions she could start a war in ten minutes and then qualifies it saying her alliance with Shepard will keep her honest. I suppose BW could leave it at that but it would depend on where BW wants to take Liara's story, either paragon or renegade ending in death or happily ever after. I don't think being corrupted would serve as a useful transition tool toward squadmate status because if corruption is in your heart a change in location won't make a difference because Liara will be the source of corruption. Should Shepard see a change early and intervene it could work as a transition tool but Liara would loose whatever independence she has gained and I think that would ruin her character. Of course Shepard could join her in her corruption and they could become the overlords of the galaxy and destroy or kill off everyone they don't like but I doubt BW will go there nor would I want them to, I like the idea of a happy ending for Liara and Shepard much more.
I think if BW was to create a story arc for ME3 that ends on a sadistically sour note with either Shepard, Liara or any other LI having to die would cast a veil of doubt and distrust over BW.
Fallout 3 originally ended with a dead hero and it was altered because that ending just hurt the company producing the game.
BW is on the verge of being able to produce an ending that's Epic in nature and leaves people feeling good inside which would lead to many allocades and furthur success but if they play 'gotcha' they'll sabotage themselves. I doubt they will. I want BW to succeed and I believe a possible 'blue baby' or a bondmate ending would accomplish success moreso than an ending filled with sorrow and disappointment.
Absolute power corrupts absolutly but Love conquers all

That assertion seems pretty much accurate. BW knows the dangers of screwing with a massive group of fans and with EA at the head, they cannot take risks like that or EA would be all over them. At the very least she won't be canon evil; perhaps you can sway her, but I doubt it.

[1490]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

Absolute power corrupts is an interesting concept with regard to the situation Liara now finds herself in. Likely a concept that will be addressed in some form as the story progresses. In fact it already has where Liara mentions she could start a war in ten minutes and then qualifies it saying her alliance with Shepard will keep her honest. I suppose BW could leave it at that but it would depend on where BW wants to take Liara's story, either paragon or renegade ending in death or happily ever after. I don't think being corrupted would serve as a useful transition tool toward squadmate status because if corruption is in your heart a change in location won't make a difference because Liara will be the source of corruption. Should Shepard see a change early and intervene it could work as a transition tool but Liara would loose whatever independence she has gained and I think that would ruin her character. Of course Shepard could join her in her corruption and they could become the overlords of the galaxy and destroy or kill off everyone they don't like but I doubt BW will go there nor would I want them to, I like the idea of a happy ending for Liara and Shepard much more.
I think if BW was to create a story arc for ME3 that ends on a sadistically sour note with either Shepard, Liara or any other LI having to die would cast a veil of doubt and distrust over BW.
Fallout 3 originally ended with a dead hero and it was altered because that ending just hurt the company producing the game.
BW is on the verge of being able to produce an ending that's Epic in nature and leaves people feeling good inside which would lead to many allocades and furthur success but if they play 'gotcha' they'll sabotage themselves. I doubt they will. I want BW to succeed and I believe a possible 'blue baby' or a bondmate ending would accomplish success moreso than an ending filled with sorrow and disappointment.
Absolute power corrupts absolutly but Love conquers all

That assertion seems pretty much accurate. BW knows the dangers of screwing with a massive group of fans and with EA at the head, they cannot take risks like that or EA would be all over them. At the very least she won't be canon evil; perhaps you can sway her, but I doubt it.

I'd personally rather "work" for a good ending though rather than have it handed to me.  I'm not a big fan of the "safe" route where no matter what you do, everyone will be ok and everything just peachy.  ME 2 was handled very well in this way, because in order to have everyone survive the suicide mission, you had to put in the time to help the characters and then be smart about who you chose for your teams at the end.  I think Liara is a great character and I'd love to see her and Shepard have a happy ending, but it would be much more worth it if you have to make good decisions to get that ending rather than receive it gratis.

[Tpolsconsort]

Why do many people see Liara as naive? I can see both sadly and comically unsure at times but nothing that said to me Liara is delusional about other's motives and objectives. Did I miss something?

[jlb524]

1490 wrote...

Actually, I was trying to agree with and add to his argument that you can't see the female LIs as subservient, because none of them are written that way.  Now that I look back on what I wrote though, it did kind of look like I was contesting his statement.  I meant to agree, I guess I'm just dumb when typing today, lol.

No worries, I see it now

[jlb524]

Tpolsconsort wrote...

Why do many people see Liara as naive? I can see both sadly and comically unsure at times but nothing that said to me Liara is delusional about other's motives and objectives. Did I miss something?

She really can't be naive about people and succeed as an information broker.  I'm not sure where that is coming from either.  As I've mentioned before, she's grown in confidence over the few years and is more comfortable with herself, but as you stated, this isn't the same as losing naivety.

[1490]

Tpolsconsort wrote...

Why do many people see Liara as naive? I can see both sadly and comically unsure at times but nothing that said to me Liara is delusional about other's motives and objectives. Did I miss something?

I don't know why either.  In ME 1 she isn't knowledgeable about human culture, but that's because she's never really known any humans.  I'm a nurse, but I don't expect my friends to know everything about human anatomy and medicine because they haven't gone through school and worked in a hospital like me.  Being deficient in knowledge from lack of exposure is not naivete.

Furthemore, in ME 2, Liara is an information broker.  Being a person who gains as much knowledge as possible for a living is pretty much the antithesis of being naive by default.

[pf17456]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

That assertion seems pretty much accurate. BW knows the dangers of screwing with a massive group of fans and with EA at the head, they cannot take risks like that or EA would be all over them. At the very least she won't be canon evil; perhaps you can sway her, but I doubt it.

Somehow I doubt anyone at BW has any real interest in marketing disapppointment. I think BW likes their fanbase and so far they've done an excellent job creating something special. They know it too and they also know how succesful LOTSB is and why.

[Unit-Alpha]

1490 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

Absolute power corrupts is an interesting concept with regard to the situation Liara now finds herself in. Likely a concept that will be addressed in some form as the story progresses. In fact it already has where Liara mentions she could start a war in ten minutes and then qualifies it saying her alliance with Shepard will keep her honest. I suppose BW could leave it at that but it would depend on where BW wants to take Liara's story, either paragon or renegade ending in death or happily ever after. I don't think being corrupted would serve as a useful transition tool toward squadmate status because if corruption is in your heart a change in location won't make a difference because Liara will be the source of corruption. Should Shepard see a change early and intervene it could work as a transition tool but Liara would loose whatever independence she has gained and I think that would ruin her character. Of course Shepard could join her in her corruption and they could become the overlords of the galaxy and destroy or kill off everyone they don't like but I doubt BW will go there nor would I want them to, I like the idea of a happy ending for Liara and Shepard much more.
I think if BW was to create a story arc for ME3 that ends on a sadistically sour note with either Shepard, Liara or any other LI having to die would cast a veil of doubt and distrust over BW.
Fallout 3 originally ended with a dead hero and it was altered because that ending just hurt the company producing the game.
BW is on the verge of being able to produce an ending that's Epic in nature and leaves people feeling good inside which would lead to many allocades and furthur success but if they play 'gotcha' they'll sabotage themselves. I doubt they will. I want BW to succeed and I believe a possible 'blue baby' or a bondmate ending would accomplish success moreso than an ending filled with sorrow and disappointment.
Absolute power corrupts absolutly but Love conquers all

That assertion seems pretty much accurate. BW knows the dangers of screwing with a massive group of fans and with EA at the head, they cannot take risks like that or EA would be all over them. At the very least she won't be canon evil; perhaps you can sway her, but I doubt it.

I'd personally rather "work" for a good ending though rather than have it handed to me.  I'm not a big fan of the "safe" route where no matter what you do, everyone will be ok and everything just peachy.  ME 2 was handled very well in this way, because in order to have everyone survive the suicide mission, you had to put in the time to help the characters and then be smart about who you chose for your teams at the end.  I think Liara is a great character and I'd love to see her and Shepard have a happy ending, but it would be much more worth it if you have to make good decisions to get that ending rather than receive it gratis.

I agree; having to make an effort would be best. What I'm trying to say is that a canon evil Liara is almost an impossibility at this point due to the fact that publishers play it safe with big franchises.

[1490]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

I agree; having to make an effort would be best. What I'm trying to say is that a canon evil Liara is almost an impossibility at this point due to the fact that publishers play it safe with big franchises.

Oh yeah, they aren't going to kill off or corrupt Liara by default even if they wanted to.  People would burn down Bioware and EA headquarters! lol