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[Jade5233]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Jade5233 wrote...

Just popping in out of the KAST thread to say...

I made an mShep specifically to romance Liara so that I could have the LI experience of LotSB.  And it was well worth the 70 plus hours, I have to say.

I first played it as my femShep with a friendship with Liara and it was really nice to finally feel like there was a character that cared about Shepard herself rather than what Shepard could do for them.  So I enjoyed it from that level.

But it almost felt completely different playing as her LI (who did not cheat, BTW *points to sig*).  I loved that cutscene in the middle of the DLC where you could use the "interrupt" and also ask her about the relationship.  But it was realistic, too, in her saying that its been two years and that they were different people now.  The kiss at the end of the battle was lovely.  And I have to say that I loved that my mShep brought up marriage and kids with her.  It was so romantic.

One question, though.  What is the implied goings on in Shepard's cabin?  Liara's eyes did seem like they went dark at one point.

I really  hope that we Kaidan fans (and Ash, too) can get some similar type of DLC.  I don't think that things between Kaidan and Shepard can be worked out quite so easily as with Liara.  So it would be more of a stepping stone to re-establishing their relationship, but I would love to have some romantic content like Liara's DLC, because it was really lovely.

Yes... her eyes went black. I took that as the most powerful sign that her love for Shep never died. In my mind they would have spent many hours during their month together exploring each other. You could hear her gasping as he touched her as well in that scene. It was only another sign for me that the two of them were made for each other.

In other words... Shepard decided to check how many freckles Lia have on entire blue body ...

Okay thanks.  I thought that was what was implied.
And I think it fits well with Shepard and Liara.
But I definitely don't want things to go that far that quickly for Kaidan/Ash and Shepard if we get DLC.  There's a lot more that has to be ironed out in that relationship than can be handled in a single DLC.

But this is Liara's thread.  And I'm very happy with the romance version of this DLC.    Yay to blue Shepard babies!

[ADLegend21]

muskettman87 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

If Shepard tries to have it both ways after the DLC, I do agree Liara should dump his ass. However, considering the relationship was up in the air after being dead for 2 years, I don't call it cheating, since Shepard can move on and Liara can move on. Plus, you were not allowed to end the romance with Liara for 7 months. Is Liara angry about it? Yes. But afterwards she isn't if you choose to stay with you ME2 LI. However, if you want, you can restart the romance with Liara again. If you leave your ME2 LI, I don't have a problem with that. But If you do still continue the romance with your ME2 LI, AND continue the romance with Liara, THAT'S OFFICIALLY CHEATING, no buts, you're a pig and a scumbag. 

Well, of course you wouldn't have a problem with that. A lot of us are pretty proud of the fact we never had a ME2 romance to leave in the first place.

I know this could be considered kind of rude on my part. But I think the fact people like you have changed romances every game and DLC possible, is pretty scumbaggish. You can say whatever you like, but it sounds like you are just trying to sooth your conscious.

After your actions and words in the past, I think I am smelling a little hypocrocy in air here.

as some one who has changed romances, maybe it's because we want to explore all the options? I've got some playthroughs where I "cheated" on my me1 LI becaue I wanna see what happens,the same reason people kill the ouncil someitmes or make Udina the councilor for humans or kill wrex. You can be prooud of keeping the same LI (which I have done on some playthroughs) but that doens't mean you get to call someone who didn't a scumbag just because they broke it off then restarted it in the DLC, personal attacks aren't neccessary to get a point across.

[pf17456]

yorkj86 wrote...

muskettman87 wrote...

I know this could be considered kind of rude on my part. But I think the fact people like you have changed romances every game and DLC possible, is pretty scumbaggish. You can say whatever you like, but it sounds like you are just trying to sooth your conscious.

After your actions and words in the past, I think I am smelling a little hypocrocy in air here.

So, how long before we have another schism in the Liara fanbase...?  <_<

Hopefully people are mature enough to not go there.

I do think though that if it is possible to carry on with another LI and be able to romance Liara with no consequence then BW has done liara's character a great disservice and it's bothersome.
I aslo think that those who 'cheated' or lost faith or gave up or got caught up in a candy jar and ended it should have been given a 'lets wait and see' response from Liara and if they remained loyal they could resume in ME3. I say this only out of a sense of wanting to preserve Liara's character and integrity and not for any desire to be punitive

[JamieCOTC]

pf17456 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

muskettman87 wrote...

I know this could be considered kind of rude on my part. But I think the fact people like you have changed romances every game and DLC possible, is pretty scumbaggish. You can say whatever you like, but it sounds like you are just trying to sooth your conscious.

After your actions and words in the past, I think I am smelling a little hypocrocy in air here.

So, how long before we have another schism in the Liara fanbase...?  <_<

Hopefully people are mature enough to not go there.

I do think though that if it is possible to carry on with another LI and be able to romance Liara with no consequence then BW has done liara's character a great disservice and it's bothersome.
I aslo think that those who 'cheated' or lost faith or gave up or got caught up in a candy jar and ended it should have been given a 'lets wait and see' response from Liara and if they remained loyal they could resume in ME3. I say this only out of a sense of wanting to preserve Liara's character and integrity and not for any desire to be punitive

This, I agree with.  For me any "Shepard character" who cheated is scum, but no skin off my nose how people play their game. At the end of the day, BW caved to give as many people a happy ending as possible.  Happy endings sell better. I understand that, but they still caved. 

[jlb524]

yorkj86 wrote...

muskettman87 wrote...

I know this could be considered kind of rude on my part. But I think the fact people like you have changed romances every game and DLC possible, is pretty scumbaggish. You can say whatever you like, but it sounds like you are just trying to sooth your conscious.

After your actions and words in the past, I think I am smelling a little hypocrocy in air here.

So, how long before we have another schism in the Liara fanbase...?  <_<

I think this is inevitable given the size of the Liara fanbase, and the fact that she attracts a wide variety of types of Mass Effect fans.

[muskettman87]

ADLegend21 wrote...

muskettman87 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

If Shepard tries to have it both ways after the DLC, I do agree Liara should dump his ass. However, considering the relationship was up in the air after being dead for 2 years, I don't call it cheating, since Shepard can move on and Liara can move on. Plus, you were not allowed to end the romance with Liara for 7 months. Is Liara angry about it? Yes. But afterwards she isn't if you choose to stay with you ME2 LI. However, if you want, you can restart the romance with Liara again. If you leave your ME2 LI, I don't have a problem with that. But If you do still continue the romance with your ME2 LI, AND continue the romance with Liara, THAT'S OFFICIALLY CHEATING, no buts, you're a pig and a scumbag. 

Well, of course you wouldn't have a problem with that. A lot of us are pretty proud of the fact we never had a ME2 romance to leave in the first place.

I know this could be considered kind of rude on my part. But I think the fact people like you have changed romances every game and DLC possible, is pretty scumbaggish. You can say whatever you like, but it sounds like you are just trying to sooth your conscious.

After your actions and words in the past, I think I am smelling a little hypocrocy in air here.

as some one who has changed romances, maybe it's because we want to explore all the options? I've got some playthroughs where I "cheated" on my me1 LI becaue I wanna see what happens,the same reason people kill the ouncil someitmes or make Udina the councilor for humans or kill wrex. You can be prooud of keeping the same LI (which I have done on some playthroughs) but that doens't mean you get to call someone who didn't a scumbag just because they broke it off then restarted it in the DLC, personal attacks aren't neccessary to get a point across.

I have no problem with people experimenting and exploring. I really don't. But when loyal fans stay faithful with Liara over the years, it's a little frustrating to watch certain people run her down, talk about how evil she is, and willingly cheat on her at the first opportunity. Only to come crawling back when her DLC comes out. Then those people proceed to lecture us what's really cheating, and what isn't. It's just funny watching someone talk about the evils of cheating, when they did just that.

My post was in no way directed at you, just certain "fans" of Liara. Again, I got no problem with people experimenting, but running her through the mud, then immediatily taking her back at first opportunity really bothers me. I haven't ever seen you do that, so I had no reason to call you out.

My point? Hypocrites, and "fair weather" really urk me.

[ADLegend21]

muskettman87 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

muskettman87 wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

If Shepard tries to have it both ways after the DLC, I do agree Liara should dump his ass. However, considering the relationship was up in the air after being dead for 2 years, I don't call it cheating, since Shepard can move on and Liara can move on. Plus, you were not allowed to end the romance with Liara for 7 months. Is Liara angry about it? Yes. But afterwards she isn't if you choose to stay with you ME2 LI. However, if you want, you can restart the romance with Liara again. If you leave your ME2 LI, I don't have a problem with that. But If you do still continue the romance with your ME2 LI, AND continue the romance with Liara, THAT'S OFFICIALLY CHEATING, no buts, you're a pig and a scumbag. 

Well, of course you wouldn't have a problem with that. A lot of us are pretty proud of the fact we never had a ME2 romance to leave in the first place.

I know this could be considered kind of rude on my part. But I think the fact people like you have changed romances every game and DLC possible, is pretty scumbaggish. You can say whatever you like, but it sounds like you are just trying to sooth your conscious.

After your actions and words in the past, I think I am smelling a little hypocrocy in air here.

as some one who has changed romances, maybe it's because we want to explore all the options? I've got some playthroughs where I "cheated" on my me1 LI becaue I wanna see what happens,the same reason people kill the ouncil someitmes or make Udina the councilor for humans or kill wrex. You can be prooud of keeping the same LI (which I have done on some playthroughs) but that doens't mean you get to call someone who didn't a scumbag just because they broke it off then restarted it in the DLC, personal attacks aren't neccessary to get a point across.

I have no problem with people experimenting and exploring. I really don't. But when loyal fans stay faithful with Liara over the years, it's a little frustrating to watch certain people run her down, talk about how evil she is, and willingly cheat on her at the first opportunity. Only to come crawling back when her DLC comes out. Then those people proceed to lecture us what's really cheating, and what isn't. It's just funny watching someone talk about the evils of cheating, when they did just that.

My post was in no way directed at you, just certain "fans" of Liara. Again, I got no problem with people experimenting, but running her through the mud, then immediatily taking her back at first opportunity really bothers me. I haven't ever seen you do that, so I had no reason to call you out.

My point? Hypocrites, and "fair weather" really urk me.

yes I was informed of the "circumstances" by Ryn. I understand what you meant now so it's all good

[JaylaClark]

jlb524 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

muskettman87 wrote...

I know this could be considered kind of rude on my part. But I think the fact people like you have changed romances every game and DLC possible, is pretty scumbaggish. You can say whatever you like, but it sounds like you are just trying to sooth your conscious.

After your actions and words in the past, I think I am smelling a little hypocrocy in air here.

So, how long before we have another schism in the Liara fanbase...?  <_<

I think this is inevitable given the size of the Liara fanbase, and the fact that she attracts a wide variety of types of Mass Effect fans.

Just so long as it's not like that insanity with the comic book.  I just read it, for the first time, and aside from the art, I actually didn't see anything OOC or disturbing about it.

Admittedly this is after I know where LiLi's character goes, though.  And I may have ignored facial expressions several times.  But ... seriously.  Everything that could be construed as a negative, I didn't see it.

[jlb524]

JaylaClark wrote...

Just so long as it's not like that insanity with the comic book.  I just read it, for the first time, and aside from the art, I actually didn't see anything OOC or disturbing about it.

Admittedly this is after I know where LiLi's character goes, though.  And I may have ignored facial expressions several times.  But ... seriously.  Everything that could be construed as a negative, I didn't see it.

Funny enough, the fan base was pretty cohesive even around the time the 4th issue of the comic was released.

The problem with the comic was that we had high expectations for the last issue, and it didn't deliver.  I know I was pretty upset (I was also having a terrible week...that didn't help).  Things were bad for like, one day and then everyone was happy again

[JaylaClark]

jlb524 wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

Just so long as it's not like that insanity with the comic book.  I just read it, for the first time, and aside from the art, I actually didn't see anything OOC or disturbing about it.

Admittedly this is after I know where LiLi's character goes, though.  And I may have ignored facial expressions several times.  But ... seriously.  Everything that could be construed as a negative, I didn't see it.

Funny enough, the fan base was pretty cohesive even around the time the 4th issue of the comic was released.

The problem with the comic was that we had high expectations for the last issue, and it didn't deliver.  I know I was pretty upset (I was also having a terrible week...that didn't help).  Things were bad for like, one day and then everyone was happy again

I know!  I was even crying at work over how bad things were getting, frantically trying to keep up with the convo even though this is not a very good site on Mobile Opera, especially when the conversation is going at Talithread speeds... Les almost jumped through the interweb to strangle a few people, too, I think.

Still, a lot of it... *prepares canned response she last used four months ago but means genuinely I mean it:innocent:* was due to york's much-appreciated-but-in-retrospect-probably-too-general summary.  (Which I still love york for doing, really, didn't HAVE to do it...)

Still, I think it all ties in, in general now, with what we've learned.  Once one remembers a) that Liara has always been good at handling trouble as far as we've known,  that grief can affect a personality pretty quickly and significantly, and c) that the artist was a hack.  Er, I mean c) that she seems to never be told what Cerberus's intentions are until an off-panel segment some time before the last scene.

Actually, it fits in with what I said, I think -- she was occupying herself with finding Shepard's body to distract her from her grief, only to hear that there was a chance at bringing Shepard back just as there were no more distractions.  How DO you process that?  And when you know how far he/she's gone... I think she lets Cerberus try exactly for the reasons she says, but doesn't dare dream of it working, so she thinks she can distract herself from the grief again by searching out Feron.  (And, she seems to feel obligated to him despite what he did, because he did the right thing and saved her life ... and her friend's/lover's life, too, it eventually turns out.  Yeah... I think that's a large part of her motivation for saving Feron, now.)

Okay, this is my first soliloquy in this thread in a while, but I think I've made a point -- regardless of what CHud and company felt earlier about us-as-a-group, they gave us everything we could realistically ask for AND some stuff that only les dreamed we'd get.  I'm pretty happy with everything overall, now, and that actually includes the comic.

[jlb524]

That's right, Liara never knew what Cerberus' true intentions were with Shepard's body, until Cerberus had the body. At that point, it was realistically too late for Liara to do anything else with the body. Though, I think part of her was okay with it, as it seemed that there may be a very small chance to bring Shepard back to life just as she was before. Then, another part of her was not okay with it, as she didn't trust Cerberus for one, and also the body seemed to be beyond repair. It was a very mentally conflicted and emotional time for Liara, filled with grief and later guilt.



Oh, the art wasn't the best, I agree.

[jlb524]

I also agree with Jayla's reasoning for why Liara was so hell bent on finding Feron. For starters, Feron saved her life, and Liara doesn't take that lightly. Shepard also once saved her life, and look at what Liara did for her when she went to great lengths to recover the body from the Shadow Broker.



Then, we have what Jayla mentioned, that Liara was looking for a distraction and was looking to do something good.

[JaylaClark]

jlb524 wrote...

That's right, Liara never knew what Cerberus' true intentions were with Shepard's body, until Cerberus had the body. At that point, it was realistically too late for Liara to do anything else with the body. Though, I think part of her was okay with it, as it seemed that there may be a very small chance to bring Shepard back to life just as she was before. Then, another part of her was not okay with it, as she didn't trust Cerberus for one, and also the body seemed to be beyond repair. It was a very mentally conflicted and emotional time for Liara, filled with grief and later guilt.

I couldn't say it better.  Especially if, for example, Liara talks to Ashley at the presumed funeral about Shepard's beliefs, and Ashley had the conversation about 'no atheists in a foxhole'.  Thus giving Liara knowledge of the fact Shepard believes in an afterlife.

jlb524 wrote...
Oh, the art wasn't the best, I agree.

I used to think I needed to pester Linkara (who is a man PUNCH! but wears a purty hat ) to rip this comic to shreds over everything, though he's admitted to not being a current-gamer, per se, so he wouldn't know the inconsistencies.  Then I read it and ... I don't think he'd have enough for an episode, because it's not astoundingly bad like I thought.  He might have something on the art style, though.

[jlb524]

I am now wondering if I go back and read Redemption, if I will appreciate the story more now that LotSB has graced us with its splendidness?

As for religion, my Shepard is an atheist (and Liara is aware of this) but I can see how RPing a religious Shepard would even add another layer of unease and guilt to Liara's 'decision' to give Shepard's body to Cerberus (I place decision in quotes as it really wasn't much of one). I guess it would also be dependent on what exact religion Shepard is, and how much Liara knows about the specifics of the religion.

Even being an atheist, my Shepard was uneasy about the idea of being resurrected from 'meat and tubes' by Cerberus. She doesn't really know what they did to her, and heck, they may have implanted a control chip in her brain, and this is all unsettling to her.

I also wonder if Liara herself is religious?  It seems as if Benezia was (Shiala states she taught 'religion and philosophy'), but there is no indication either way if Liara is or isn't.  Her use of the term 'Goddess' is more of a curse than anything (this seems like a common curse amongst asari), so I don't think this indicates religious beliefs for Liara.

Modifié par jlb524, 20 septembre 2010 - 06:38 .

[JaylaClark]

jlb524 wrote...

I am now wondering if I go back and read Redemption, if I will appreciate the story more now that LotSB has graced us with its splendidness?

As for religion, my Shepard is an atheist (and Liara is aware of this) but I can see how RPing a religious Shepard would even add another layer of unease and guilt to Liara's 'decision' to give Shepard's body to Cerberus (I place decision in quotes as it really wasn't much of one). I guess it would also be dependent on what exact religion Shepard is, and how much Liara knows about the specifics of the religion.

Even being an atheist, my Shepard was uneasy about the idea of being resurrected from 'meat and tubes' by Cerberus. She doesn't really know what they did to her, and heck, they may have implanted a control chip in her brain, and this is all unsettling to her.

Alyna Shepard, I'm remembering her in fits and starts, and I recall that she's not sure about what this means for her soul, though she hopes that the fact she can't remember the light and what came after means that it really wasn't her time.  But to be beyond normal medicine, to not even have all of her own parts so to speak, has to be disturbing.  I wonder how much opportunity she had to discuss this with LiLi before the attack...?

[CroGamer002]

pf17456 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Yeah, I've seen it.

Shepard is such an idiot!

Liara gets onto the elevator, the doors close. She smiles with a sigh of relief and says to herself; ' Goddess that was close... thank you for getting me out of there.... What a loser'... Wonder what Feron is doing........

YOU'RE MEAN!

[Deturis90]

Good Morning Liara fans !

[Jade5233]

What is the difference like in the ending of LotSB when Shepard had "cheated" on Liara but still wants to be with her. I won't have my Shepards cheat on ME1 characters out of principle. But I would like to know/see what the other outcomes are like.

Is there Youtube somewhere?

[AndroLeonidas]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Interestingly enough, Jayla's theory that Liara was also deadly afraid of how Cerberus would revive Shepard, and that they'd flub up the Lazarus Project and resurrect her as a zombie-cyborg-husk is confirmed when selecting certain dialogue choices in LotSB. I think that the player must trigger the DLC prior to completing the Observer sidequest, and Liara will then later inform Shepard of the fact that she was the one that handed the corpse over to Cerberus to be revived. Crucially, she also states something to the effect of that she was worried and frightened over what Cerberus would bring her back as...confirmation of additional guilt and pain that had been tormenting Liara for the two years prior to the events of ME2.

Like J said, it was an extremely difficult time for Liara. She had to endure an abundance of pain and misery.

They fought Cerberus on like eight or nine missions in ME1, both of them seeing the horrors that Cerberus was doing. Then she has to turn him/her over to these people in the hopes they can rebuild him. Hell yes she would be torn and conflicted. Who wouldn't be? She had to endure pain and misery, but throw in guilt, revenge, anger and having to look over her shoulder every day.

In a sense... looking back now... if Shepard hadn't come along when he/she did Liara could possibly have been lost to these emotions. In a sense he/she saved her again. Saved her from herself.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

why not make her into a spectre?

[AndroLeonidas]

Out of curiousity... did they make her character model's bust larger in the DLC. In some angles it appears they did... and then is others no. When she wears the armor it appears this way... but when she has her dress on no. Is that just camera angles maybe?

[Aradace]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Out of curiousity... did they make her character model's bust larger in the DLC. In some angles it appears they did... and then is others no. When she wears the armor it appears this way... but when she has her dress on no. Is that just camera angles maybe?

It's the armor I think.  Think of it as a kind of "wonder bra" lol