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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI


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#49876
IndigoWolfe

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One of the things that I really like about Liara's romance is her own caution when it comes to the romance. In ME1, we had the "We need to take things slower" conversation. And in ME2, we had almost the whole of LotSB.

Liara is one of only two people who say out loud that both of them have changed since the events of ME1, and I think that takes a lot of maturity. Which makes the overall progression of the romance all the more satisfying.

A big problem I've continually had with Bioware romances is the fact that it's hard to escape the feeling that's it's ultimately about sex. Liara's romance I feel does a good job in distancing the "romance" and the "sex".

*Edit* Top of page;

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Modifié par IndigoWolfe, 10 octobre 2010 - 11:26 .


#49877
IndigoWolfe

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Oh yeah, and another well done piece by Metal-Dragon-Kiryu!



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#49878
drwells123

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Godeskian wrote...

Not so much no. Mind you, at age 27 I dated an 18 year old, so I'm not one to hold judgement as long as, as you said you know what you're getting into. (she did, it didn't last, the sex was fantastic).

Tali always struck me as someone who would have crushed on Shepard, even if he was a pyschotic, and in fact you can play him as such and still romance her. It left a bad taste in my mouth to be honest. If you've played a paragon, the relationship to me feels a lot less squicky.

Plus, being put on a pedestal like that is a really easy way to sour a relationship if you get knocked off it, or worse, if she knocks you off it.


Yep, and the older guy almost always gets knocked off it (or at least gently pushed) as she gets older. I've also heard this is why rich guys go through a succession of trophy wives - once she's no longer awed by his wealth and power, it's no fun for either of them anymore.

Godeskian wrote...
With Liara it never felt like she looked up to you, so much as she respected that in your own field you were a professional. I mean, Marine commando and Archeologist are pretty much as seperate as fields get IMO. It felt more like a relationship between equals.


Tali seems like she knows who she is, but there's the fact that you're always rescuing her, especially in an emotional sense during her loyalty mission. The circumstances are unique, but still, in my experience trouble lies that way.

As for Liara, there are also things about her in ME1 that are just too convenient. A hot librarian type, who of course considers herself boring, and who finds you in particular interesting right off the bat. Yeah, and then you wake up. That said, I like her more in ME1 than afterward, which suggests that I still have immature and unrealistic expectations lurking somewhere, and she fits them better than Tali does. :) Hey, that's why it's not real life!

It does help that there's some implied ambiguity about whether or not you can actually trust her, but of course she's a good guy. And she isn't afraid to assert herself the instant you try to step into her area of expertise ("I  have my own theory about what happened to the Protheans"/"With all due respect, bub, I've heard them all.")

Godeskian wrote...
Oddly enough its why I didn't bring a Kaiden or Ash romance into ME2. Dating a coworker is problematic enough, dating a subordinate... Well let's just say that the chances for a major negative emotional reaction on say Virmire, where you might have to choose your loved one or your mission, is why most militaries have fraternisation rules.


Heh yeah it's enough of a trainwreck even without having to leave someone behind with a bomb. And when I see that Ashley/Kaiden/Liara confrontation, I think, "That's one of the few mistakes I knew to avoid even without having made it before."

Godeskian wrote...
In that same vein in ME2, I tended to restrict my romances to those I felt were on more or less equal footing (like Samara or Thane, both of which have lives completely and utterly independant of Shepard, despite agreeing to work for him/her), or those who were completely outside of the normal chain of command (like Jack).
Miranda is an odd case in that she's both the one who saved you and  your subordinate. The chain of command is a bit twisted in her case. Jacob works for you, so is a no go. Shepard always felt more like a mentor to Garrus (to me at least) than a love interest (though I suppose 'hot for the teacher' works)


Jack is appealing because she's strong (can kill people without a gun), is a bad girl (prurience on my part again), and when you see her softer side you feel like you've earned it (this is of course another great source of dysfunctional relationships - looking for the soft side of people who don't have one :) ).

Edit: I'll add that a Samara romance DLC would be nice, since there are already hints. I know, some people think there are too many LIs, but again, that's why it isn't real life.

Modifié par drwells123, 11 octobre 2010 - 01:17 .


#49879
drwells123

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

A big problem I've continually had with Bioware romances is the fact that it's hard to escape the feeling that's it's ultimately about sex. Liara's romance I feel does a good job in distancing the "romance" and the "sex".


Agreed. The conversation and emotional payoff at the end of LotSB are way better than, say, acting out scenes from Vaenya would have been.

Modifié par drwells123, 11 octobre 2010 - 12:04 .


#49880
Goodwood

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drwells123 wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

A big problem I've continually had with Bioware romances is the fact that it's hard to escape the feeling that's it's ultimately about sex. Liara's romance I feel does a good job in distancing the "romance" and the "sex".


Agreed. The conversation and emotional payoff at the end of LotSB are way better than, say, acting out scenes from Vaenya would have been.


And yet, the unintentional humor was so worth it.

#49881
Lord Zeuss

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

Image IPB


The spine was so not meant to bend like that.:lol: Pretty art, though.

And did you notice the hexagonal pattern? Cerberus...:whistle:

Oh, and why is there a belt directly over her crotch?:blink:

#49882
drwells123

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Lord Zeuss wrote...
The spine was so not meant to bend like that.:lol: Pretty art, though.


Agreed, very nice. Is that this Nick Miles? http://exula.cgsociety.org/gallery/

Modifié par drwells123, 11 octobre 2010 - 01:26 .


#49883
almostinsane

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drwells123 wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

A big problem I've continually had with Bioware romances is the fact that it's hard to escape the feeling that's it's ultimately about sex. Liara's romance I feel does a good job in distancing the "romance" and the "sex".


Agreed. The conversation and emotional payoff at the end of LotSB are way better than, say, acting out scenes from Vaenya would have been.


I don't know about anyone else, but  I personally felt a feeling of satisfaction and peace at the end of the Lair of the Shadow Broker. I'd imagine that Shepard had been worrying about her for months.

#49884
pacer90

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almostinsane wrote...

drwells123 wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

A big problem I've continually had with Bioware romances is the fact that it's hard to escape the feeling that's it's ultimately about sex. Liara's romance I feel does a good job in distancing the "romance" and the "sex".


Agreed. The conversation and emotional payoff at the end of LotSB are way better than, say, acting out scenes from Vaenya would have been.


I don't know about anyone else, but  I personally felt a feeling of satisfaction and peace at the end of the Lair of the Shadow Broker. I'd imagine that Shepard had been worrying about her for months.


I didn't feel like I beat ME2 until LotSB

#49885
Unit-Alpha

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Well, anyone playing ME on the 360, I just tossed together a quick Dashboard wallpaper with that excellent image by Exullium.

http://browse.devian...=liara#/d2yq773

Image IPB

Right click > View for larger version. Sized to fit a widescreen 1080p TV but is up to 2500x1406.

To install on 360, copy to flash drive, go to My Pictures on the 360, select portable device, move cursor over the image, press Y.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 11 octobre 2010 - 04:39 .


#49886
AndroLeonidas

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For anyone who is interested.. Chapter 2 of fanfic is up.

#49887
Gibb_Shepard

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Just after you kill Vasir, there are a series of interrupts with Liara. One of them lets you choose an option that says "about us", i know what happens when you choose this dialogue, but does anyone know what happens when you choose the neutral option? It's the last interrupt, and you have the option to choose "about us" and a neutral response. Does anyone know the conversation that takes place when you pick that neutral option?

#49888
drwells123

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Just after you kill Vasir, there are a series of interrupts with Liara. One of them lets you choose an option that says "about us", i know what happens when you choose this dialogue, but does anyone know what happens when you choose the neutral option? It's the last interrupt, and you have the option to choose "about us" and a neutral response. Does anyone know the conversation that takes place when you pick that neutral option?




Jump about 9 minutes in.

I'm amazed anyone bit the bullet and chose the neutral option, but he probably felt too silly to run any game with that helmet on.

#49889
Gibb_Shepard

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drwells123 wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Just after you kill Vasir, there are a series of interrupts with Liara. One of them lets you choose an option that says "about us", i know what happens when you choose this dialogue, but does anyone know what happens when you choose the neutral option? It's the last interrupt, and you have the option to choose "about us" and a neutral response. Does anyone know the conversation that takes place when you pick that neutral option?




Jump about 9 minutes in.

I'm amazed anyone bit the bullet and chose the neutral option, but he probably felt too silly to run any game with that helmet on.


Thanks, do you know if choosing that dialogue option cuts off your chance to rekindle Liara's relationship?

#49890
Fancando

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I have romanced her in both ME and ME2, she must be a squadmate and a LI in ME3.

#49891
Mox Ruuga

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What I'd like to is, what does that "Death, most likely" convo option lead to? The other option is IIRC the "Marriage, old age, blue babies..." fanservice bit.

Eh, perhaps I should start making more saves to explore these scenes more thoroughly. OTOH, I'm still seeing new dialogue in ME1, so perhaps not exploring every option during the first play through isn't all bad... Image IPB

#49892
drwells123

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Gibb_Shepard wrote...
Thanks, do you know if choosing that dialogue option cuts off your chance to rekindle Liara's relationship?


Don't know, but I'd bet heavily against it. I suspect not even missing the "shut up and kiss me" interrupt (the best use of an interrupt EVER, incidentally) prevents you from bringing it up later.

#49893
Mox Ruuga

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drwells123 wrote...

Don't know, but I'd bet heavily against it. I suspect not even missing the "shut up and kiss me" interrupt (the best use of an interrupt EVER, incidentally) prevents you from bringing it up later.


Heh heh, also one that was suggested back in the days of us nerd raging over Liara's crappy scenes in ME2.

Great minds think alike! Image IPB

One thing the devs didn't do was a Renegade interrupt (or interrupts), where Shep would get pissed at Liara evading his/her attempts at talking about "them", and smash some furniture in her office, or angrily snap at her, cutting her off mid sentence (and no, not actually assaulting Liara herself before anyone asks! Image IPB). Too bad, more overt anger and fury leading to understanding and rekindling of the romance could have been really cool too, and fitting for some of the more volatile Liaramancing Shepards.

#49894
drwells123

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Mox Ruuga wrote...

What I'd like to is, what does that "Death, most likely" convo option lead to? The other option is IIRC the "Marriage, old age, blue babies..." fanservice bit.

Eh, perhaps I should start making more saves to explore these scenes more thoroughly. OTOH, I'm still seeing new dialogue in ME1, so perhaps not exploring every option during the first play through isn't all bad... Image IPB




Warning: you'll die a little at 2:45.

#49895
Mox Ruuga

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drwells123 wrote...



Warning: you'll die a little at 2:45.


Uh... I'm at work, and without headphones. Could you give me the gist of it? ie. terminates the romance, makes Liara cry, what? Image IPB

#49896
drwells123

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Mox Ruuga wrote...

Too bad, more overt anger and fury leading to understanding and rekindling of the romance could have been really cool too, and fitting for some of the more volatile Liaramancing Shepards.


Yeah, you can't even biotically slam the door on your way out.

#49897
drwells123

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Mox Ruuga wrote...

drwells123 wrote...



Warning: you'll die a little at 2:45.


Uh... I'm at work, and without headphones. Could you give me the gist of it? ie. terminates the romance, makes Liara cry, what? Image IPB


I'm not sure if this guy ever had a romance or not, but I suspect that deepsixes it if you did. You turn back to your computer and she pauses at the door and gives you a sad look over her shoulder, then looks down, then walks out just as you glance back up at her.

Also, in the background you can hear God killing a kitten and the Illusive Man giggling as he feeds a puppy into the Reaper-O-Matic.

They perhaps should add some tears in her eyes as she looks back at you.

Edit: If you decide to try this, I suggest you first turn the music volume down to 0, then hit Alt + Tab to jump back to Windows. Open your browser and point it to http://www.youtube.c...?v=aFfOacxTVmg. Then switch back to the game. That'll give you the appropriate music for this scene. Alt-tabbing very occasionally causes the game to crash to desktop, but that's a small price to pay to avoid being permanently scarred by watching that scene anyway :)

Modifié par drwells123, 11 octobre 2010 - 09:03 .


#49898
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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IndigoWolfe wrote...

Oh yeah, and another well done piece by Metal-Dragon-Kiryu!


Nice! ^_^

AndroLeonidas wrote...

For anyone who is interested.. Chapter 2 of fanfic is up.


Very nice! :wizard:

#49899
drwells123

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Mox Ruuga wrote...

What I'd like to is, what does that "Death, most likely" convo option lead to? The other option is IIRC the "Marriage, old age, blue babies..." fanservice bit.

Eh, perhaps I should start making more saves to explore these scenes more thoroughly. OTOH, I'm still seeing new dialogue in ME1, so perhaps not exploring every option during the first play through isn't all bad... Image IPB


That reminds me: there will likely be ways for Liara to die in ME3. And, since BioWare likes moral dilemmas, if you want to keep her alive, there might be a price. At what point do you say, okay, this is too high a price to pay for just one person?

- A squadmate dies.

- A particular squadmate that you like (say, Samara) dies.

- The Normandy is lost with all hands, except you and Liara.

- All of the above, plus all your favorite people (Anderson, Gianna, Shiala, etc) all die.

- The Asari worlds are all wiped out and the remnants aren't enough to keep the species going.

- The human worlds are all wiped out.

- The entire galaxy, except you and Liara, dies. (Well, what did they ever do for you anyway?)

- You'll pay $50 extra for a special edition of ME3 where Liara can't die no matter what you do.

- If ME3 makes it possible for Liara to die at all, you'll never buy another BioWare product, not even "Dragon Age III: Leliana Takes Morrigan Shopping at Victoria's Secret (Uncensored!!)". (also see: Talimancers :))

Also note that if you go too far up this list Liara herself is going to be increasingly pissed at you. :lol:

Modifié par drwells123, 11 octobre 2010 - 11:47 .


#49900
AlexMBrennan

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If there was a choice between saving Liara or a major planet (Illium, say), I would have to save the planet, hate Bioware forever and declare ME3 (as well as large chunks of ME2) non-canon [but only if Shepard survives]