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[turian councilor Knockout]

I like her more hardened personality better, she was too naive in ME 1.

[EbonyKnight]

bjdbwea wrote...

But with ME 2 being as it is, and with the story and Liara's character predetermined by it, LotSB certainly did a great job to salvage her role from the bad writing in ME 2. Not only does it properly explain her behaviour from the main game, it also shows that much of her character from ME 1 is still there.

Indeed.   The problem was that her ME2 scene was short and rushed.  Funny enough, the entire scene has been made obsolete with the new content.  You can skip it and go right for the Shadow Broker.  I still go through it.   I feel it's an important part of the relationship...it builds character to go through a troubled period.

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

I like her more hardened personality better, she was too naive in ME 1.

I prefer to think of her as inexperienced in ME1, not naive (that word has some negative connotations that I don't think apply to Liara.  For one, being a bit 'slow'.)  I think she's quick to read and adapt to her surroundings; probably why she quickly became powerful and successful in the Information business.

Modifié par EbonyKnight, 26 octobre 2010 - 04:00 .

[bjdbwea]

EbonyKnight wrote...

Indeed.   The problem was that her ME2 scene was short and rushed.  Funny enough, the entire scene has been made obsolete with the new content.  You can skip it and go right for the Shadow Broker.  I still go through it.   I feel it's an important part of the relationship...it builds character to go through a troubled period.

Indeed. LotSB certainly does not suddenly make the bad writing in the main game better. But at least it does deliver an explanation why Shepard and Liara did not talk about their relationship. Together with the quite fitting remark of Shepard about hacking terminals in LotSB, in my opinion it makes sense to play complete Liara's mission on Illium before starting the mission of LotSB.

But it also makes sense to ignore the dialogue choice that leads Liara to explain how the saved Shepard, because then at the beginning of LotSB, she explains it again, and finally Shepard can thank her properly. While her "because I couldn't let you go" line is beautiful too, I think that the conversation as a whole in LotSB is a bit better than in the main game.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

bjdbwea wrote...

EbonyKnight wrote...

Indeed.   The problem was that her ME2 scene was short and rushed.  Funny enough, the entire scene has been made obsolete with the new content.  You can skip it and go right for the Shadow Broker.  I still go through it.   I feel it's an important part of the relationship...it builds character to go through a troubled period.

Indeed. LotSB certainly does not suddenly make the bad writing in the main game better. But at least it does deliver an explanation why Shepard and Liara did not talk about their relationship. Together with the quite fitting remark of Shepard about hacking terminals in LotSB, in my opinion it makes sense to play complete Liara's mission on Illium before starting the mission of LotSB.

But it also makes sense to ignore the dialogue choice that leads Liara to explain how the saved Shepard, because then at the beginning of LotSB, she explains it again, and finally Shepard can thank her properly. While her "because I couldn't let you go" line is beautiful too, I think that the conversation as a whole in LotSB is a bit better than in the main game.

LOTSB provided a reason for why Liara didn't wish to talk about their relationship, Shepard OOC acting during the main-game is still unexplained.

Regarding Liara's reveal to Shepard about how he was saved. You're right that the dialog there should not be taken, because of 2 reasons.

1) Because Shepard not saying ANYTHING afterwards execpt the two retarded choices is by far the most obvious and blatant case of Shepard acting OOC.
2) Shepard's response toward her revealing the secret are either..
A) Being angry and feeling betrayed.
The most facepalm worthy BS i've ever heard.

In LOTSB the "thank you" response from Shepard to Liara is good.

[AlexMBrennan]

@bjdbwea: Doesn't Shepard gain an additional (paragon-ish) option to respond to the "I was afraid you'd hate me" question? I prefer to skip the hacking tasks for that reason... I doubt that they keep track of this in the save, but I'll know anyway.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

@bjdbwea: Doesn't Shepard gain an additional (paragon-ish) option to respond to the "I was afraid you'd hate me" question? I prefer to skip the hacking tasks for that reason... I doubt that they keep track of this in the save, but I'll know anyway.

Before you "finnish" the Illium cameo you can get the chance to say to Liara "Be careful out there Liara, don't turn into the thing you're hunting".

Is that what you are refering to?

[AlexMBrennan]

No, I was referring to another scene. Guess I'll have to replay Illium, which I can't do right now since I'm in the habit of deleting saves immediately.

[onelifecrisis]

*eyes shut*



I don't want any spoilers, I just want to know from Liara fans before I buy: how well does LotSB handle the relationship between Shepard and Liara? I doubt that ME2 can be un****edup in this regard, but hope springs eternal.



Please reply quoting me (so I know to read it) and without spoilers!! If you thought ME2 handled this romance, and Liara's whole character, very badly, then I want to know what you thought of LotSB.



Thanks :-D

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

onelifecrisis wrote...

*eyes shut*

I don't want any spoilers, I just want to know from Liara fans before I buy: how well does LotSB handle the relationship between Shepard and Liara? I doubt that ME2 can be un****edup in this regard, but hope springs eternal.

Please reply quoting me (so I know to read it) and without spoilers!! If you thought ME2 handled this romance, and Liara's whole character, very badly, then I want to know what you thought of LotSB.

Thanks :-D

It's the best DLC from Bioware so far. And it really handles the relationship between Liara and Shepard well.

Just buy it and play it ASAP, that's all I can say.

[bjdbwea]

onelifecrisis wrote...

*eyes shut*

I don't want any spoilers, I just want to know from Liara fans before I buy: how well does LotSB handle the relationship between Shepard and Liara? I doubt that ME2 can be un****edup in this regard, but hope springs eternal.

Please reply quoting me (so I know to read it) and without spoilers!! If you thought ME2 handled this romance, and Liara's whole character, very badly, then I want to know what you thought of LotSB.

Thanks :-D

LotSB does continue the relationship in a beautiful and quite detailed way. It can not and does not correct the flaws of the original Liara scene in ME 2, but it tries and succeeds to implement and expand upon everything that was missing in the main game. If you like Liara and her romance, you will almost certainly like LotSB a lot as well. It is very well written and delivers pretty much everything that one could reasonably hope to expect in such a DLC. And I say that as someone who was very disappointed with Liara's role and the terrible writing in the main game.

The rest of LotSB also quite well done. I for one think that it's certainly by far BioWare's best DLC so far.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 27 octobre 2010 - 07:44 .

[Deturis90]

Lizardviking wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

It's the best DLC from Bioware so far. And it really handles the relationship between Liara and Shepard well.

Just buy it and play it ASAP, that's all I can say.

So true Lizard.

Just buy it ! you'll not regret it

[tonnactus]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

I like her more hardened personality better, she was too naive in ME 1.

Give some examples. Just because she wanted to spare the rachni queen she wasnt naive.

[Yeled]

onelifecrisis wrote...

*eyes shut*

I don't want any spoilers, I just want to know from Liara fans before I buy: how well does LotSB handle the relationship between Shepard and Liara? I doubt that ME2 can be un****edup in this regard, but hope springs eternal.

Please reply quoting me (so I know to read it) and without spoilers!! If you thought ME2 handled this romance, and Liara's whole character, very badly, then I want to know what you thought of LotSB.

Thanks :-D

I thought LotSB was excellent.  Probably the best writing in ME2.  The romance was handled very, very well.

Quite honestly I felt playing LotSB as part of the main game (so not as a tacked on extra) made the entire ME2 experience better.  It didn't fix all the problems, but it made the game feel much more like shepard's story, rather than a story in which she was simply along for the ride.  Since she was able to focus on one of the things that was most important to her (Liara), it was much less of a chore to convince myself that she would go along with Cerberus on their damn fool quest.

In many ways LotSB feels like a loyalty mission for Liara, except its longer than a normal ME2 loyalty mission.

Modifié par Yeled, 27 octobre 2010 - 09:03 .

[pacer90]

onelifecrisis wrote...

*eyes shut*

I don't want any spoilers, I just want to know from Liara fans before I buy: how well does LotSB handle the relationship between Shepard and Liara? I doubt that ME2 can be un****edup in this regard, but hope springs eternal.

Please reply quoting me (so I know to read it) and without spoilers!! If you thought ME2 handled this romance, and Liara's whole character, very badly, then I want to know what you thought of LotSB.

Thanks :-D

I can't describe how good it is. ME2 was the pinnacle for video games for me, now I wonder how I got through it without that DLC.

[pacer90]

And to the discussion before... ME1 Liara was great. But I don't think it would have been the same if she was like that in ME2. She needed to develop with all that has happened otherwise she'd just become a stock character.



I hated her on Illium, but LotSB fixed everything. LotSB Liara is probably my favorite.

[drwells123]

onelifecrisis wrote...

*eyes shut*

I don't want any spoilers, I just want to know from Liara fans before I buy: how well does LotSB handle the relationship between Shepard and Liara? I doubt that ME2 can be un****edup in this regard, but hope springs eternal.

Please reply quoting me (so I know to read it) and without spoilers!! If you thought ME2 handled this romance, and Liara's whole character, very badly, then I want to know what you thought of LotSB.

Thanks :-D

In case enough other people haven't chimed in: I didn't play ME1 and was never a particular fan of any character until playing LotSB. Not just the ending, but the entire thing does a great job of showing the relationship even if you've never seen it before. Buy with confidence.

Modifié par drwells123, 28 octobre 2010 - 01:26 .

[onelifecrisis]

Awesome, thanks folks

[pf17456]

drwells123 wrote...
In case enough other people haven't chimed in: I didn't play ME1 and was never a particular fan of any character until playing LotSB. Not just the ending, but the entire thing does a great job of showing the relationship even if you've never seen it before. Buy with confidence.

You should try to get ahold of ME1 and play it if only to add context to ME2 and ME3. History does increase understanding

[GuardianAngel470]

onelifecrisis wrote...

*eyes shut*

I don't want any spoilers, I just want to know from Liara fans before I buy: how well does LotSB handle the relationship between Shepard and Liara? I doubt that ME2 can be un****edup in this regard, but hope springs eternal.

Please reply quoting me (so I know to read it) and without spoilers!! If you thought ME2 handled this romance, and Liara's whole character, very badly, then I want to know what you thought of LotSB.

Thanks :-D

The Shadow Broker mortally wounds Liara and Shepard holds her as she dies.

Liara: Come closer.

Shepard: Ok.

Liara: Closer......I always hated you. I always hated you the most.

Shepard: Yeah, I know, just hurry up and die you c*ckbite.

Liara: Alright.. ERGH....BLAHGH!

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 28 octobre 2010 - 07:22 .

[drwells123]

pf17456 wrote...

You should try to get ahold of ME1 and play it if only to add context to ME2 and ME3. History does increase understanding

Don't have time to play it right now, but I have done plenty of research on YouTube

But yeah, I was led up the garden path by a glowing review of ME2 that said it rendered ME1 obsolete. Big mistake. Worse, when you use the default character, the galaxy is half empty since you killed Wrex, Parasini, Thanoptis, the rachni queen...and didn't romance Liara. Heresy. I'm thinking the ME2 install should check for ME1 and, if not found, show a picture of a guy setting himself on fire and say "Do not try this at home, Skippy."

[GuardianAngel470]

cookie for the reference....



And for the record, I would say it about any other character.

[GuardianAngel470]

drwells123 wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

You should try to get ahold of ME1 and play it if only to add context to ME2 and ME3. History does increase understanding

Don't have time to play it right now, but I have done plenty of research on YouTube

But yeah, I was led up the garden path by a glowing review of ME2 that said it rendered ME1 obsolete. Big mistake. Worse, when you use the default character, the galaxy is half empty since you killed Wrex, Parasini, Thanoptis, the rachni queen...and didn't romance Liara. Heresy. I'm thinking the ME2 install should check for ME1 and, if not found, show a picture of a guy setting himself on fire and say "Do not try this at home, Skippy."

Are you on PC? If you are, Gibbed's save editor is your new god. You just have to open up an existing ME2 save file, edit all the ME1 flags to your liking, and then import that save into a new game.

If you aren't on PC, the same is true, but it takes a bit more work as you have to copy the career to an external drive, stick that drive in you PC, and open and edit it then recompile it.

[drwells123]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

The Shadow Broker mortally wounds Liara and Shepard holds her as she dies.

That wouldn't be a bad option, actually. Say, if you forgot/neglected to do a side mission somewhere. After the way she puts Shepard off as they're leaving Ilium, it would make for a great tear-jerker confession at the end.

Of course it would be followed by a "critical mission failure" and your computer exploding.

[drwells123]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Are you on PC? If you are, Gibbed's save editor is your new god. You just have to open up an existing ME2 save file, edit all the ME1 flags to your liking, and then import that save into a new game.

If you aren't on PC, the same is true, but it takes a bit more work as you have to copy the career to an external drive, stick that drive in you PC, and open and edit it then recompile it.

Thanks, I didn't know about that. I actually used a save from masseffectsaves. But I'm definitely going to crack that open and see what the flags are. Especially if, for example, not killing Rana Thanoptis really does bite me in the ass in ME3

[pf17456]

drwells123 wrote...
Thanks, I didn't know about that. I actually used a save from masseffectsaves. But I'm definitely going to crack that open and see what the flags are. Especially if, for example, not killing Rana Thanoptis really does bite me in the ass in ME3

Well it's understandable especially in reference to this specific thread that those who haven't had the benifit of backround from ME1 could have had an innaccurate perception of Liara and her relevance to the entire trilogy because so much is missing that cannot really be replaced by anything other than playing through the first game.
I am however someone focused on the story as well as the gameplay but primarily on the story. To read a 12 chapter story starting at chapter 4 would leave me kind of lost.