50907 réponses à ce sujet

[JPfanner]

I think there would still be some stigma with interspecies relationships. To be honest, there would be less for an asari pairing simply because they're hot sexy babes. And I think there would be slightly more stigma for a female human "slumming" with any alien, rather than making human babies. Because that is just an extrapolation of current attitudes. Most of the time in settings with different races, humans are just as bigoted as usual, it just rather than hating on each other as much over things like skin color they direct that towards pointy ears or exoskeletons.

Plus you have to consider the other races attitudes. Asari aren't going to have any measurable problem, you'd have individuals who dislike humans, but I doubt there'd be any overt social trends. Although negative human activities, like going Renegade and losing the Destiny Ascension, the Council, and the 10,000 asari crewmembers at the end of ME1 might start a negative attitude towards humans to start. But if asari can do it with batarians, then I think humans would still have a looooong way to go before being below that.

My personal opinion for the Tali relationship is that she would be ostracized. She mentions that they don't execute people, that they exile them instead so that their children can return to the fleet. And the Migrant Fleet is about as insular as a society as you can get to begin with. So what she is doing could be considered worse than execution or exile. Shepard would probably raise a few eyebrows as well for associating with a quarian, considering how they're looked upon by the rest of the galactic community. I think the whole Tali getting sick each time they get busy is worth mentioning too, I can't imagine the fact that she effectively "has a headache" most of the time Shepard wants some loving wouldn't be a strain. Or how many times do you risk her dying just to get some sugar?

Garrus for me seems to center around two issues. The first would be the First Contact War. There is already some tension on both sides from that and I don't really see people not looking at the relationship and thinking that person has sold out their species. The second is the whole "Uh, why?" aspect. With the right handed molecules, physiology, and things like fluids making you sick or even being corrosive; I can imagine most people just staring blankly at the whole idea when they'd first hear about it.

For the drell I don't really know. They're a numerically, economically, and politically insignificant race that effectively belong to the hanar. I got tired of hearing Thane talk about his dead wife so I have like negative interest in the drell. They'd probably think whatever the hanar told them to.

[Noxis6]

To the whole thing with Garrus you could also add the Turian pov which effectivly makes him a deserter who abbandoned his post now two times instead of going along with his orders,I guess that would raise some eyebrows too.

As for Drell well they are so rare that I doubt most common people really know anything about them,I would guess the first reactions would be something like "What is that thing?"

[Asheer_Khan]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...



I wonder if there's any significance in BioWare selecting this screenshot in particular for Liara's character page on the official site, kind of to illustrate Liara's sadness and suffering in ME2.

She is unhappy because she must wear that crazy skirt instead her comfy science suit;).
Remember how Gianna told me how she hate skirts so i assume that Lili share this felling as well.

I hope that we will see Liara expansion soon... but on the orher hand fact that rEApers have wake up (p2p Kasumi) made me little worried.

[morrie23]

Kasumi DLC is released a day before Redemption #4, conincidence? Maybe there's something in the DLC that relates to Liara, or maybe (most likely) it means nothing.

Modifié par morrie23, 12 mars 2010 - 10:20 .

[JPfanner]

Noxis6 wrote...

To the whole thing with Garrus you could also add the Turian pov which effectivly makes him a deserter who abbandoned his post now two times instead of going along with his orders,I guess that would raise some eyebrows too.
As for Drell well they are so rare that I doubt most common people really know anything about them,I would guess the first reactions would be something like "What is that thing?"

That's certainly true, Garrus himself even mentions how he doesn't think he is a very good turian. He mentions in ME1 how his father wanted him to stay in C-Sec, disliked Spectres, and was a huge stickler for proper procedure. So I can imagine sitting around the dinner table with Pop Garrus would be akward.
Another thing on the asari is that the social stigma on purebloods seems to be a case of "say one thing, and do another" since there are a lot of pureblood asari out there and it seems like most asari past several centuries have been a partner in producing at least one pureblood daughter in their lives. The codex states that about 1% of the asari population falls into the AY range, and that is a pureblood condition, so a huge number of asari must still be following their pre-space preferences. We haven't seen what asari space is actually like either, Samara mentions tracking Morinth down to that asari village, and that there are a slew of remote asari colonies. So I think that a lot of the stigma is actually the asari trying to play up their cosmopolitan image to the rest of the galaxy in public. Then they're doing what they've always done in private.
Plus you have the whole egotism angle for asari who aren't purebloods. They have a vested interest in being vocal about perputating the belief that they're superior. And in melting pots like Illium or the Citadel you're going to see a lot of them. I seriously wanted to turn my flamethrower on those two asari near the Expedition store on Illium they were so hateful and egotistical.

Modifié par JPfanner, 12 mars 2010 - 10:25 .

[AndroLeonidas]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I wonder how other asari view Liara for pairing with Shepard, too. As a child of two asari, maybe they will still look down upon her, viewing her fraternization with a human as Liara attempting to hide away the fact that she is a child of two asari. On the other hand, I can imagine Liara being quite famous amongst the asari, what with her being a part of Shepard's squad and helping to stop the attack on the Citadel. You do feel that when Shep and Liara eventually become full bondmates and have their own children, that their family will become massively famous and almost a symbol for the two species co-habitation.

I think that is part of the reason why she has done so well on Illum. It's an Asari world and based on what Carina says, Liara is very well thought of by quite a few people.

Might be another reason why the SB does not want to do her harm in a way. If she is as popular and well known as it is made out to be... why would the SB want to ****** of the Asari people as a whole by killing her? Not a real good business decision on his part I'd say. It might be another reason why she is still alive and why she feels she can say how much she wants to kill him in her office. Interesting.

I also agree that when that time comes... Shepard and Liara will be held up as sort of revered figures in both cultures. Their children as well. And I can't see them having any less than four or five kids either.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I wonder how other asari view Liara for pairing with Shepard, too. As a child of two asari, maybe they will still look down upon her, viewing her fraternization with a human as Liara attempting to hide away the fact that she is a child of two asari. On the other hand, I can imagine Liara being quite famous amongst the asari, what with her being a part of Shepard's squad and helping to stop the attack on the Citadel. You do feel that when Shep and Liara eventually become full bondmates and have their own children, that their family will become massively famous and almost a symbol for the two species co-habitation.

I:m not sure if the pureblood thing would be that much of stigma for Liara,I personally think the Benezia thing might weigh heavier on her.
If you look at it even before the mess with Saren,Benezia walked a very unusual way for asari demanding to be more active in shaping the galaxy and so on.
Since indoctrination is seen as a myth by the general public,it looks like she joined Saren out of her free will,which she actually did in the beginning,so it also looks like she betrayed the council and if Shepard would not have killed her she might have taken part in the attack on the citadel.
All that might fall back on Liara,if it is outweighed by her fame I dont know,but I can imagine her standing among the asari is not that high,since they seem to value the wisdom of their elders more and she is just a very young maiden.

[Little Mama]

Now I just have to draw a Liarapic...

And a asari-baby pic as well...

This might take some time

[AndroLeonidas]

Noxis6 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I wonder how other asari view Liara for pairing with Shepard, too. As a child of two asari, maybe they will still look down upon her, viewing her fraternization with a human as Liara attempting to hide away the fact that she is a child of two asari. On the other hand, I can imagine Liara being quite famous amongst the asari, what with her being a part of Shepard's squad and helping to stop the attack on the Citadel. You do feel that when Shep and Liara eventually become full bondmates and have their own children, that their family will become massively famous and almost a symbol for the two species co-habitation.

I:m not sure if the pureblood thing would be that much of stigma for Liara,I personally think the Benezia thing might weigh heavier on her.
If you look at it even before the mess with Saren,Benezia walked a very unusual way for asari demanding to be more active in shaping the galaxy and so on.
Since indoctrination is seen as a myth by the general public,it looks like she joined Saren out of her free will,which she actually did in the beginning,so it also looks like she betrayed the council and if Shepard would not have killed her she might have taken part in the attack on the citadel.
All that might fall back on Liara,if it is outweighed by her fame I dont know,but I can imagine her standing among the asari is not that high,since they seem to value the wisdom of their elders more and she is just a very young maiden.

I can understand that point of view... but given what we know of the Asari... I think they would consider her, if not a symbol, than at the very least a superior example of what Asari can aspire too. I mean... she did take part in saving the entire universe. How can anyone dismiss that under the rug.

[JPfanner]

Noxis6 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I wonder how other asari view Liara for pairing with Shepard, too. As a child of two asari, maybe they will still look down upon her, viewing her fraternization with a human as Liara attempting to hide away the fact that she is a child of two asari. On the other hand, I can imagine Liara being quite famous amongst the asari, what with her being a part of Shepard's squad and helping to stop the attack on the Citadel. You do feel that when Shep and Liara eventually become full bondmates and have their own children, that their family will become massively famous and almost a symbol for the two species co-habitation.

I:m not sure if the pureblood thing would be that much of stigma for Liara,I personally think the Benezia thing might weigh heavier on her.
If you look at it even before the mess with Saren,Benezia walked a very unusual way for asari demanding to be more active in shaping the galaxy and so on.
Since indoctrination is seen as a myth by the general public,it looks like she joined Saren out of her free will,which she actually did in the beginning,so it also looks like she betrayed the council and if Shepard would not have killed her she might have taken part in the attack on the citadel.
All that might fall back on Liara,if it is outweighed by her fame I dont know,but I can imagine her standing among the asari is not that high,since they seem to value the wisdom of their elders more and she is just a very young maiden.

My take on it was that Benezia's death would be known, but not the details or that she was working with Saren.  The Council is trying to simplify the whole public presentation of the attack on the Citadel.  Saren was anti-human, so that's why he attacked Eden Prime, not because of some prothean beacon.  Saren convinced the geth to help him destroy the Citadel, not that Saren was an agent of the Reapers.  Benezia's association would lead to inquiries and then the whole mess on Noveria and the rachni might come up, plus it reflects poorly on the asari and the Council themselves.  It is bad enough that a Spectre went rogue, they wouldn't need to compound that by adding in one of the most famous asari matriarchs.
But that's just my opinion on that.  I don't recall any mention of Benezia in ME2 apart from when you talk to Liara.

Modifié par JPfanner, 12 mars 2010 - 11:02 .

[Marcin K]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I did actually roleplay my Shepard as being sad and mournful in ME2 without Liara about, I feel it reflected myself quite well. It feels sad touring the galaxy and she's not at your side, and you know she wants to come with you too. :/

Also, did anyone else, when you first accessed the galaxy map, look at where Therum is on the map and think "That's where I first met Liara, God I miss her"?

yup. i tried to land there even but...on option:/

[Noxis6]

AndroLeonidas wrote...
I can understand that point of view... but given what we know of the Asari... I think they would consider her, if not a symbol, than at the very least a superior example of what Asari can aspire too. I mean... she did take part in saving the entire universe. How can anyone dismiss that under the rug.

I dont know maybe its the writing of ME2 but aside from Shepard the contribution of his old squad seems to be somewhat dwarfed or swept under the rug.
And even if they view her as some symbol or inspiration I doubt that would protect her from the Shadow Broker,what protects her is either Cerberus or she made the right impression on some underworld figures that oppose him and want to use her for their goals.
The admiration from a few matriachs or even an entire race wouldnt stop the SB from killing her,hes far too convinient to ignore or oppose.

[JPfanner]

Noxis6 wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...
I can understand that point of view... but given what we know of the Asari... I think they would consider her, if not a symbol, than at the very least a superior example of what Asari can aspire too. I mean... she did take part in saving the entire universe. How can anyone dismiss that under the rug.

I dont know maybe its the writing of ME2 but aside from Shepard the contribution of his old squad seems to be somewhat dwarfed or swept under the rug.
And even if they view her as some symbol or inspiration I doubt that would protect her from the Shadow Broker,what protects her is either Cerberus or she made the right impression on some underworld figures that oppose him and want to use her for their goals.
The admiration from a few matriachs or even an entire race wouldnt stop the SB from killing her,hes far too convinient to ignore or oppose.

We've only got up to Redemption 3 so far, but if Liara and Feron infiltrate his base, pillage his database, and then make off with Shepard's carcass that does give Liara some leverage.  If Liara keeps some of that information herself, or even if she doesn't, the Shadow Broker might be unwilling to move against her overtly until he can learn more.  She could even get word to him that she has a cache from his base database with instructions for it to be released to interested parties if she dies.  That would explain the Observer's role, to keep Liara distracted from the real trail while also trying to ascertain what she knows and where it is.

Liara does mention that a lot of people want to be her friend, or at least not her enemy because of the role she played against Saren.  You have to ask her about the "making threats" option when you first meet her after she gives you the smoochy.

[Noxis6]

JPfanner wrote...
My take on it was that Benezia's death would be known, but not the details or that she was working with Saren.  The Council is trying to simplify the whole public presentation of the attack on the Citadel.  Saren was anti-human, so that's why he attacked Eden Prime, not because of some prothean beacon.  Saren convinced the geth to help him destroy the Citadel, not that Saren was an agent of the Reapers.  Benezia's association would lead to inquiries and then the whole mess on Noveria and the rachni might come up, plus it reflects poorly on the asari and the Council themselves.  It is bad enough that a Spectre went rogue, they wouldn't need to compound that by adding in one of the most famous asari matriarchs.
But that's just my opinion on that.  I don't recall any mention of Benezia in ME2 apart from when you talk to Liara.

Yeah Benezia is one of the many holes ME2 has,her death should be wildely known,but if they dont give out any details that would raise a bunch of questions too,as to why she was killed.
Of course they would never mention the rachni,they could always excuse it as Sarens attempt to aquire a new bio weapon or something that was foiled by Shepard.
As for reflecting bad on the asari well as I said Benezia was a bit of a renegade when it comes to asari politics so she could always be reduced to a bad example as to where this path could lead and dont forget Saren was so charismatic he even managed to impress machines with it.......yeah....machines...
 

Modifié par Noxis6, 12 mars 2010 - 11:28 .

[Noxis6]

JPfanner wrote...
We've only got up to Redemption 3 so far, but if Liara and Feron infiltrate his base, pillage his database, and then make off with Shepard's carcass that does give Liara some leverage.  If Liara keeps some of that information herself, or even if she doesn't, the Shadow Broker might be unwilling to move against her overtly until he can learn more.  She could even get word to him that she has a cache from his base database with instructions for it to be released to interested parties if she dies.  That would explain the Observer's role, to keep Liara distracted from the real trail while also trying to ascertain what she knows and where it is.

Liara does mention that a lot of people want to be her friend, or at least not her enemy because of the role she played against Saren.  You have to ask her about the "making threats" option when you first meet her after she gives you the smoochy.

hm certainly not that impossible but,I would think the SB would notice if she stole something that important and he would sure move against her before she could do anything with it.

Ah yes I remember that line,well isnt that always how fame goes as soon as you are famous you have a lot of friends and some people that dislike you are suddenly a lot nicer to you,but who knows how much that is worth once the SB makes his move,makes you wonder how many of her "friends" would want to protect her from him or people who dont want to have her as an enemy see the opportunity to strike.

[AndroLeonidas]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

It really wouldn't surprise me if at the end of Redemption Cerberus does offer her protection, an information network and assistance in hunting down the Shadow Broker, on the condition that she does not fraternize with Shepard any longer. Liara is so distraught with guilt and fear that Shep will hate her, that she probably sees no other choice.

I see this as the most likely event and the big "reveal" in issue 4. I have wracked my brians trying to figure out what else it could be and nothing ever makes any sense except something along these lines.

And if the stipulation is she does not fraternize with Shep... that would defintiely explain the opening scene where they meet, kiss, she shakes her head remembering her promise and so forth.

[JPfanner]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

That's an interesting theory, but why would Liara want to pillage his database and take a cache of his information? Liara has one very clear goal in the comic: find Shepard. At the moment, she's not really interested in killing or weakening the Shadow Broker, just in finding Shepard and recovering his/her corpse. The way I see it, as soon as Liara is in possession of Shepard's body in issue 4, she's going to want to get the hell out of there and not be worried about the Shadow Broker at all anymore.

Feron is pillaging the databases while Liara is talking to the android Shadow Broker.  Since we're assuming that Feron doesn't make it away, it stands to reason that he passes the information to Liara.  How much information did Feron take?  Does the Shadow Broker know exactly what was taken?  I don't know.  If the Shadow Broker doesn't know and he had stuff in there he doesn't want to be known, he'd have to play the wait and see game until he could find out.

[AndroLeonidas]

Which leads me to what I have always believed... and TIM reinforced at the end of ME2 with his passion for keeping the Collector Base. The man has his own agenda and it does not concern saving humanity from the Reapers. When Shep and Liara get back together and compare notes, here's hoping they open a can of Whoop Booty on TIm. And it would be even nicer if Miranda joined in after you convince her to leave Cerberus and she discovers just how sick a Bas**rd he really he.



I also see Shep and Liara helping Miranda to relocate her sister once again since that is TIM's mean sof control over her.

[Nynaeve]

Liara also tells Shep that she 'barely escapes with her own life', this could either mean she was hurt, and probably received medical aid from Cerberus, or it was just a close call perhaps. Either way, she probably found herself a willing tool in TIM's devious hands, and easily manipulated and taken advantage of.