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[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

bjdbwea wrote...

The Shepard in the main game of ME 2 is often not my Shepard from ME 1. There's simply no way that my Shepard would have acted that way when meeting Liara again, or at least not have tried to properly talk with her later. Therefore my Shepard would not have been wondering about the relationship, because it would have been clear either way. And in my own Mass Effect story canon, Shepard and Liara belong together.

Therefore I for one always had to assume that they'd have talked about everything before Shepard left for the final mission, even if the game didn't show it. And therefore I always saw the picture scene as primarily Shepard gathering strength for a difficult task.

But the scene of course would also make sense as part of a "rocky" chapter of the relationship, if the writers had actually implemented something like that. And now with LotSB, it probably makes more sense to interpret it like that, even though the actual content is still missing from the main game.

I have a feeling that you refer to Shepard complete indiffrence to Liara when she reveals that she gave his body to Cerberus. And it's true that it's a very jarring moment where Shepard is completely OOC. But I came up with a way to work around that and have it make sense.

I think it feels alot more right if Shepard never finds out the whole "I gave your body to Cerberus", simply because getting that dialog results in a huge OOC moment (as mentioned before) from Shepard. It simply makes more sense if Shepard is completely off put by Liara's attitude and thinks she's simply moved on and her missing friend is more than she's letting on. The fact that Shepard can ask if Feron and Liara have anything going on makes it feel like it was Bioware's intent.

I wrote a fanfic months ago that puts it better.

[Pwnisher]

Liara did the rihgt think giving Shepard's body to Cerberus, at last my Shepard thinks so.

[TheNexus]

nerdage wrote...

Also, the my last playthrough the other day was the first time I waited until the start of LotSB to have Liara explain what happened with Cerberus, I'd recommend it. The way she just starts explaining it all and Shepard's just standing around going "Wait.. What?", much more fun.

Speaking of which, I really liked what the enemy Spectre said while she was dying in LotSB. Shepard is always telling everyone what right and wrong is and they're always like "you're right I'm wrong sorry Shep", and this Spectre was really the first person that looked at Shepard in the eye and said "I'm wrong? You work for Cerberus. You can't even begin to call me wrong".

That's what I really want to see in ME3, people really challenging Shepard head on with what he says and not just taking it as the word of a god.

[Nerdage]

Pwnisher wrote...

Liara did the rihgt think giving Shepard's body to Cerberus, at last my Shepard thinks so.

I always thought that, if you were mad at Liara for letting Cerberus rebuild you, then logically you should've killed yourself when you found out about lazarus, since apparently you'd rather be dead than work for Cerberus.

..Or maybe I just like Liara too much to be mad at her. Also possible.

TheNexus wrote...

Speaking
of which, I really liked what the enemy Spectre said while she was dying in LotSB. Shepard is always telling everyone what right and wrong is and they're always like "you're right I'm wrong sorry Shep", and this Spectre was really the first person that looked at Shepard in the eye and said "I'm wrong? You work for Cerberus. You can't even begin to callme wrong".

That's what I really want to see in ME3, people really challenging Shepard head on with what he says and not just taking it as the word of a god.

I couldn't help thinking that the option to say "There's a difference between working with and working for." was missing in that conversation. Since, at no point I can remember, does Shepard help Cerberus kidnap children and kill Alliance admirals, but the other spectre is assassinating people and killing innocents for the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par nerdage, 26 novembre 2010 - 09:37 .

[AlexMBrennan]

I always thought that, if you were mad at Liara for letting Cerberus rebuild you, then logically you should've killed yourself when you found out about lazarus, since apparently you'd rather be dead than work for Cerberus.

Liara risked everything (her life, and at one point made a decision to sacrifice Feron) to recover a mass of meat and bones to hand to Cerberus for mad science experiments*. Some people might consider that a bit irrational, and wrong. Some people might be angry with her for her willingness to sacrifice everything for a pile of meat and bones.

However, killing oneself won't make that undone, and now that the damage is done you might just as well get on with life.

Also, the chance of this happening again is remote, so there is no need for a Fruit Of The Poisonous Tree reaction



* Based on Redemption, Liara didn't find out that Cerberus was trying to rebuilt Shepard until way after recovering Shepard's remains

[wickedwizzard01]

nerdage wrote...

Pwnisher wrote...

Liara did the rihgt think giving Shepard's body to Cerberus, at last my Shepard thinks so.

I always thought that, if you were mad at Liara for letting Cerberus rebuild you, then logically you should've killed yourself when you found out about lazarus, since apparently you'd rather be dead than work for Cerberus.

..Or maybe I just like Liara too much to be mad at her. Also possible.

TheNexus wrote...

Speaking
of which, I really liked what the enemy Spectre said while she was dying in LotSB. Shepard is always telling everyone what right and wrong is and they're always like "you're right I'm wrong sorry Shep", and this Spectre was really the first person that looked at Shepard in the eye and said "I'm wrong? You work for Cerberus. You can't even begin to callme wrong".

That's what I really want to see in ME3, people really challenging Shepard head on with what he says and not just taking it as the word of a god.

I couldn't help thinking that the option to say "There's a difference between working with and working for." was missing in that conversation. Since, at no point I can remember, does Shepard help Cerberus kidnap children and kill Alliance admirals, but the other spectre is assassinating people and killing innocents for the Shadow Broker.

Yes i verry much agree with you that there should have been a third option since i didn't like the given once either way
it would have been better if there was a option where you could say something like
"i'm not killing innocent people or for Cerberus, just need them to take on the Collectors/Reapers since the Alliance and council won't help/ believe anything i said, but Cerberus comes next"
or something like that 

[Xilizhra]

Quick question: I know it might depend on Shepard's reasons, but how do you think Liara would react to Shepard killing Samara for Morinth?

[Zulu_DFA]

Will shrug her shoulders most likely.



I've got another quick question: in the beginning of LotSB Liara thanks Shepard for offering the help and gives him a smirk, as she is leaving her office for home. The smirk looks very much like TIM's famous evil smirk when he is wathcing his new Collector Base... So why does Liara smirk this way?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Will shrug her shoulders most likely.

I've got another quick question: in the beginning of LotSB Liara thanks Shepard for offering the help and gives him a smirk, as she is leaving her office for home. The smirk looks very much like TIM's famous evil smirk when he is wathcing his new Collector Base... So why does Liara smirk this way?

Because Liara has joined the dark side.

Or perhaps she's just happy that Feron is alive perhaps? Not everything is a conspiracy in this game.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 26 novembre 2010 - 02:35 .

[Nerdage]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Liara risked everything (her life, and at one point made a decision to sacrifice Feron) to recover a mass of meat and bones to hand to Cerberus for mad science experiments*. Some people might consider that a bit irrational, and wrong. Some people might be angry with her for her willingness to sacrifice everything for a pile of meat and bones.
However, killing oneself won't make that undone, and now that the damage is done you might just as well get on with life.
Also, the chance of this happening again is remote, so there is no need for a Fruit Of The Poisonous Tree reaction

* Based on Redemption, Liara didn't find out that Cerberus was trying to rebuilt Shepard until way after recovering Shepard's remains

Hmm.. perhaps. I didn't actually read Redemption, I just read an overview of it, so I didn't know that she didn't know about their plan to rebuild Shepard. Why did she do it then? Ah nevermind, I'll look it up, don't let my ignorance clutter the thread.

[Zulu_DFA]

nerdage wrote...
she didn't know about their plan to rebuild Shepard. Why did she do it then?

TIM convinced her to work for Cerberus. One mission at a time. Simple as that.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 26 novembre 2010 - 03:04 .

[Xilizhra]

Will shrug her shoulders most likely.

Really? I would think that this would be a fairly large transgression in terms of asari culture, considering how respected justicars are and how reviled the Ardat-Yakshi are.

[Zulu_DFA]

Xilizhra wrote...

Will shrug her shoulders most likely.

Really? I would think that this would be a fairly large transgression in terms of asari culture, considering how respected justicars are and how reviled the Ardat-Yakshi are.

Liara is a fairly large transgresion in terms of Asari culture herself, considering how the pure-bloods are looked down on.

[Xilizhra]

There's a difference between "genetic weakness" and "sex demon."

[IndigoWolfe]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I've got another quick question: in the beginning of LotSB Liara thanks Shepard for offering the help and gives him a smirk, as she is leaving her office for home. The smirk looks very much like TIM's famous evil smirk when he is wathcing his new Collector Base... So why does Liara smirk this way?

The reason why they're so similar is probably because you can only pull off so much subtlety with the smile animations in ME2. I think it was supposed to be just a smile, not an evil-looking smirk.

[AlexMBrennan]

nerdage  wrote...
Why did she do it then?

To prevent the Collectors from getting Shepard's body. In particular, TIM didn't tell her that Cerberus was planning to rebuild Shepard when trying to convince Liara to work for him.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 26 novembre 2010 - 06:18 .

[Nerdage]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

To prevent the Collectors from getting Shepard's body. In particular, TIM didn't tell her that Cerberus was planning to rebuild Shepard when trying to convince Liara to work for him.

Well it's still kind of hard to be angry at her. One assumes the reapers (via the collectors) wanted the body for a reason, so probably best that doesn't happen. And she does say in the game "they said they could rebuild you", I doubt she would've handed the body over to Cerberus if they'd just asked, so I still think that was why she actually gave Shepard to them, if not why she aquired the body in the first place.

[Foley2222]

Liara was told that Cerberus were planning on reviving Shepard, Miranda told Liara about the Lazarus Project on Omega pretty much just after Feron told Liara you were dead.

Liara initially went to Omega to help Shepard because she thought that Shepard was still alive and was in trouble.

I Love Liara Even More For Bringing Shepard Back.

Though I Wonder What The Other Were Doing???

Modifié par Foley2222, 26 novembre 2010 - 09:39 .

[drwells123]

Sorry for the late post, I'm out in the boonies with limited Internet.

www.fanfiction.net/s/6431630/9/Duet

[drwells123]

Lizardviking wrote...

I know it isn't shown in the game, and ME2-maingame Shepard's complete lack of humanity is also one of my criticism.

Everyone probably already knows this, but Rise Above or Sink Below is a great depiction (especially Chapter 4) of what the original ME (and its aftermath) does to Shepard and how Liara helps her through it.

[TMA LIVE]

Here's an update on my artwork. I'm still colouring, and will be adding more details in the background. The eyes also need to be worked on a bit.

[bjdbwea]

That looks quite nice already, and with more detailed background it will be even better.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 27 novembre 2010 - 11:50 .

[Captain Iglo]

Looks very good so far

Good luck with the rest.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Looks very good TMA.

[almostinsane]

Looks awesome. The background just needs to be worked on a bit more.