Yeled I've often thought that the Liara DLC may have been developed concurrently with the rest of the game, and therefore would have utilised all of BioWare's resources during the game and would have been developed under the game's initial budget. We know that originally Liara would have had a far greater role in ME2, before the comics were announced and her story was expanded, so I can't see BioWare just flat out stopping with the development of Liara's content and them waiting until Redemption was completed before developing it. They would have then altered Liara's content, developed it as normal with the rest of the game but held it back until Redemption was completed before then making it available as DLC.
Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI
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#5652
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 03:29
Marcin K
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~4weeks until #4 of comics so we need to stay patient to get more beloved-Liara content...LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Yeled I've often thought that the Liara DLC may have been developed concurrently with the rest of the game, and therefore would have utilised all of BioWare's resources during the game and would have been developed under the game's initial budget. We know that originally Liara would have had a far greater role in ME2, before the comics were announced and her story was expanded, so I can't see BioWare just flat out stopping with the development of Liara's content and them waiting until Redemption was completed before developing it. They would have then altered Liara's content, developed it as normal with the rest of the game but held it back until Redemption was completed before then making it available as DLC.
so quiet here today..........
Modifié par Marcin R, 14 mars 2010 - 03:31 .
#5653
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 03:33
Yeled
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Yeled I've often thought that the Liara DLC may have been developed concurrently with the rest of the game, and therefore would have utilised all of BioWare's resources during the game and would have been developed under the game's initial budget. We know that originally Liara would have had a far greater role in ME2, before the comics were announced and her story was expanded, so I can't see BioWare just flat out stopping with the development of Liara's content and them waiting until Redemption was completed before developing it. They would have then altered Liara's content, developed it as normal with the rest of the game but held it back until Redemption was completed before then making it available as DLC.
That's possible, except it seems far more likely that Liara's role in ME2 was gutted quickly and patched up as best they could using what limited resources they had. Her scenes seem incomplete and rushed, and don't seem to have been made with much care or overall consideration of appropriate character interaction. It doesn't make me think they developed all this other content concurrently. Instead I think they scrapped what they had, with the intentions of starting fresh with the dlc.
#5654
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 03:36
Marcin K
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as i've noticed it's a fresh page, let me post some Liara pic:
#5655
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 03:49
vigna
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Hah, I just came up with a great cartoon idea....I may do something with it if I have time. Mini versions of Shep and Liara. It would be called "The Adventures of Lil' LiLi and Shep/Shep".
Shep/Shep because every panel or toon would involve Shep switching from Fem to 'Loo Shep at random...confusing the heck out of Lil' LiLi....shenanigans ensue...
Shep/Shep because every panel or toon would involve Shep switching from Fem to 'Loo Shep at random...confusing the heck out of Lil' LiLi....shenanigans ensue...
#5656
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 03:57
Crimmsonwind
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Awwww. DO IT!vigna wrote...
Hah, I just came up with a great cartoon idea....I may do something with it if I have time. Mini versions of Shep and Liara. It would be called "The Adventures of Lil' LiLi and Shep/Shep".
Shep/Shep because every panel or toon would involve Shep switching from Fem to 'Loo Shep at random...confusing the heck out of Lil' LiLi....shenanigans ensue...
#5657
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:04
Yeled
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vigna wrote...
Hah, I just came up with a great cartoon idea....I may do something with it if I have time. Mini versions of Shep and Liara. It would be called "The Adventures of Lil' LiLi and Shep/Shep".
Shep/Shep because every panel or toon would involve Shep switching from Fem to 'Loo Shep at random...confusing the heck out of Lil' LiLi....shenanigans ensue...
Goddess, Shepard's just like Ranma 1/2!
#5658
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:09
Luke_Shepard
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Would love to see you do this, sounds like a really good conceptvigna wrote...
Hah, I just came up with a great cartoon idea....I may do something with it if I have time. Mini versions of Shep and Liara. It would be called "The Adventures of Lil' LiLi and Shep/Shep".
Shep/Shep because every panel or toon would involve Shep switching from Fem to 'Loo Shep at random...confusing the heck out of Lil' LiLi....shenanigans ensue...
#5659
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:15
bjdbwea
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Yeled wrote...
Instead I think they scrapped what they had, with the intentions of starting fresh with the dlc.
Don't know if that even was the intention. As you said, at some point they obviously trashed their work / plans so far, and quickly threw together a filler. Time constraints? Could also be that they did not want to pre-empt anything from the comics.
But we don't even know if there are (still) plans for a Liara DLC. The plan could also be to just leave everything as it is now. As you said, the DLC policy is obviously to milk the masses with quickly produced content. You don't need Liara for that anyway.
Modifié par bjdbwea, 14 mars 2010 - 04:15 .
#5660
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:16
Marcin K
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i just wonder why male shep is called loo......Luke_Shepard wrote...
Would love to see you do this, sounds like a really good conceptvigna wrote...
Hah, I just came up with a great cartoon idea....I may do something with it if I have time. Mini versions of Shep and Liara. It would be called "The Adventures of Lil' LiLi and Shep/Shep".
Shep/Shep because every panel or toon would involve Shep switching from Fem to 'Loo Shep at random...confusing the heck out of Lil' LiLi....shenanigans ensue...
#5661
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:17
vigna
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Ooh, Vanderloo......Marcin R wrote...
i just wonder why male shep is called loo......Luke_Shepard wrote...
Would love to see you do this, sounds like a really good conceptvigna wrote...
Hah, I just came up with a great cartoon idea....I may do something with it if I have time. Mini versions of Shep and Liara. It would be called "The Adventures of Lil' LiLi and Shep/Shep".
Shep/Shep because every panel or toon would involve Shep switching from Fem to 'Loo Shep at random...confusing the heck out of Lil' LiLi....shenanigans ensue...
#5662
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:22
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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Whilst I agree that the current ME2 Liara content does seem to be rushed and pieced together, I still think that due to time constraints they had to throw together a reunion that doesn't spoil Redemption in anyway, while leaving the meat of Liara's ME2 role in the DLC. You may not like it if they have held back Liara's role until Redemption is complete, but I don't think BW would be stupid enough to spoil there own material.
vigna, that Shep/Shep LiLi cartoon? DO IT DO IT DO IT!!!!
vigna, that Shep/Shep LiLi cartoon? DO IT DO IT DO IT!!!!
#5663
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:23
Marcin K
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lol that's good cos i thought u talk about kind of loo shep has in his quaters behind a wall:Pvigna wrote...
Ooh, Vanderloo......Marcin R wrote...
i just wonder why male shep is called loo......Luke_Shepard wrote...
Would love to see you do this, sounds like a really good conceptvigna wrote...
Hah, I just came up with a great cartoon idea....I may do something with it if I have time. Mini versions of Shep and Liara. It would be called "The Adventures of Lil' LiLi and Shep/Shep".
Shep/Shep because every panel or toon would involve Shep switching from Fem to 'Loo Shep at random...confusing the heck out of Lil' LiLi....shenanigans ensue...
#5664
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:27
Yeled
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Whilst I agree that the current ME2 Liara content does seem to be rushed and pieced together, I still think that due to time constraints they had to throw together a reunion that doesn't spoil Redemption in anyway, while leaving the meat of Liara's ME2 role in the DLC. You may not like it if they have held back Liara's role until Redemption is complete, but I don't think BW would be stupid enough to spoil there own material.
Do you think they consider it spoiled, or is it "working as intended"?
#5665
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:38
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Don't know, the only thing we definitely know will happen in issue 4 of Redemption is that Liara gets Shepard's body, she does something that she considers "screwing up", Feron gets captured, TIM or Miranda tell her that they want Shepard's body to resurrect him/her, and Liara will obviously vow vengeance against the SB. I get the feeling that more will be revealed in issue 4, such as the speculation that Liara is actually working for Cerberus and TIM emotionally manipulates her, as they realistically can't have Liara tell everything that happens as it would spoil the comic.
I do think that BW were put into a difficult situation with the comic, hence why Liara's scenes seem so thrown together and unfinished.
I do think that BW were put into a difficult situation with the comic, hence why Liara's scenes seem so thrown together and unfinished.
#5666
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:41
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I can see that some people are concerned about the Liara Expansion being similar to Kasumi DLC.
I cannot see that happening.
We all know what the story to ME2 is about, getting your teammembers from across the galaxy ready for a suicide mission and such.
For one thing, the Liara Expansion would take place after the storyline, so we wouldn't have deal with the "thrill" (sarcasm) of aquiring the squadmates.
That should already be an indicator to a more thoughtful and deep storyline.
As to why I do not believe the Kasumi DLC is an indicator to the Liara Expansion, is because the Kasumi DLC is already a part of the original story.
There cannot be much change to the Kasumi DLC because every other squadmate mission is also a mission where you shoot many people.
I, for one, did not expect much more out of the Kasumi DLC then for it to be the exact same every other squadmate mission.
Even if we look at the comic book, the storyline for the comic books in centered around the love Liara has for Shepard, BioWare has already setup an emotional and romantic storyline for the Expansion in the comic books.
The only way they could change the emotional and romantic storyline for the Expansion is to change the comic books, since the comic books are already released, I don't see that happening.
All we have to do is look at what has been setup by BioWare for the Liara Expansion: A beautiful, emotional, romantic storyline that greatly differs from the actual ME2 storyline.
I know fears of finanical greed can make it seem as though BioWare will not do anything great for the Expansion, but in this case, they have already set a base for an emotional, deep story through their choices in the actual Liara reunion and the comic books.
As much as the Liara reunion did seem rushed, they actually put Liara as an emotionally tormented person, if they didn't care at all, they would have made her completely and utterly hardened and stone cold.
The fact that Liara has emotions in the reunion shows that BioWare actually had to think about the emotions she would be feeling, because they thought about this, I can't see it being possible to completely change Liara and Shepard into two uncaring and unloving people in the Expansion.
Even BioWare has to follow the storyline they setup for themselves.
I cannot see that happening.
We all know what the story to ME2 is about, getting your teammembers from across the galaxy ready for a suicide mission and such.
For one thing, the Liara Expansion would take place after the storyline, so we wouldn't have deal with the "thrill" (sarcasm) of aquiring the squadmates.
That should already be an indicator to a more thoughtful and deep storyline.
As to why I do not believe the Kasumi DLC is an indicator to the Liara Expansion, is because the Kasumi DLC is already a part of the original story.
There cannot be much change to the Kasumi DLC because every other squadmate mission is also a mission where you shoot many people.
I, for one, did not expect much more out of the Kasumi DLC then for it to be the exact same every other squadmate mission.
Even if we look at the comic book, the storyline for the comic books in centered around the love Liara has for Shepard, BioWare has already setup an emotional and romantic storyline for the Expansion in the comic books.
The only way they could change the emotional and romantic storyline for the Expansion is to change the comic books, since the comic books are already released, I don't see that happening.
All we have to do is look at what has been setup by BioWare for the Liara Expansion: A beautiful, emotional, romantic storyline that greatly differs from the actual ME2 storyline.
I know fears of finanical greed can make it seem as though BioWare will not do anything great for the Expansion, but in this case, they have already set a base for an emotional, deep story through their choices in the actual Liara reunion and the comic books.
As much as the Liara reunion did seem rushed, they actually put Liara as an emotionally tormented person, if they didn't care at all, they would have made her completely and utterly hardened and stone cold.
The fact that Liara has emotions in the reunion shows that BioWare actually had to think about the emotions she would be feeling, because they thought about this, I can't see it being possible to completely change Liara and Shepard into two uncaring and unloving people in the Expansion.
Even BioWare has to follow the storyline they setup for themselves.
Modifié par General Stubbs, 14 mars 2010 - 04:46 .
#5667
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:47
JPfanner
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I've pretty much given up trying to analyze the current Liara presentation. Any rational, or even not-quite rational, in-game explanation doesn't account for Liara never saying anything to Tali or Garrus. Even if it satisfies other criteria, like why Liara can't say/do this or that.
And it just seems like something like that should have been one of the fundamental and unchanging parts of any interaction with her no matter how many different drafts and edits the whole scene went through. Especially if they were trying to establish some identity and relationship between the characters for people just coming into the game with ME2.
And it just seems like something like that should have been one of the fundamental and unchanging parts of any interaction with her no matter how many different drafts and edits the whole scene went through. Especially if they were trying to establish some identity and relationship between the characters for people just coming into the game with ME2.
#5668
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:49
Larask
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JPfanner wrote...
I've pretty much given up trying to analyze the current Liara presentation. Any rational, or even not-quite rational, in-game explanation doesn't account for Liara never saying anything to Tali or Garrus. Even if it satisfies other criteria, like why Liara can't say/do this or that.
And it just seems like something like that should have been one of the fundamental and unchanging parts of any interaction with her no matter how many different drafts and edits the whole scene went through. Especially if they were trying to establish some identity and relationship between the characters for people just coming into the game with ME2.
I agree with you. In Horizon I know that Ash acknowleges Garrus. There is just so much missing on Liara's part...
#5669
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:54
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Maybe what they originally intended Tali or Garrus to say to Liara or vice versa was rendered redundant when Redemption was conceived? Or, perhaps what Liara and Tali or Garrus will say to each other will be relevant to the comic, hence them not wanting to spoil. Is this problem exclusive to Liara, by the way? Do Tali and Garrus say anything special to Wrex or Anderson?
And I agree with everything Stubbs said above. They've designed Liara's story from the ground up to be very emotion driven, with her devotion to Shep and subsequent guilt and emotional torment for handing the body to Cerberus central. Realistically, they can't have Liara's DLC be all combat with minimal emotional and deep dialogue without it feeling unnatural.
And I agree with everything Stubbs said above. They've designed Liara's story from the ground up to be very emotion driven, with her devotion to Shep and subsequent guilt and emotional torment for handing the body to Cerberus central. Realistically, they can't have Liara's DLC be all combat with minimal emotional and deep dialogue without it feeling unnatural.
#5670
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 04:58
Yeled
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JPfanner wrote...
I've pretty much given up trying to analyze the current Liara presentation. Any rational, or even not-quite rational, in-game explanation doesn't account for Liara never saying anything to Tali or Garrus. Even if it satisfies other criteria, like why Liara can't say/do this or that.
And it just seems like something like that should have been one of the fundamental and unchanging parts of any interaction with her no matter how many different drafts and edits the whole scene went through. Especially if they were trying to establish some identity and relationship between the characters for people just coming into the game with ME2.
^This. Its exactly how I feel. Yes, they put emotion into Liara, but only because they had to do something with her or cut her from the game entirely. Unlike where this group places our emphasis (the relationships and emotional story that Shep experiences through a trilogy of games), I think Bioware placed the entire emphasis of the game on the new squadmates and the suicide mission. I think once they decided to alter their plans for Liara (the opening Legion scene and the cut dialogue), she became an after thought they quickly dealt with and then moved on to more "important" things.
Even the comics don't account for their decisions. Its not like they are drawing them as they go. They must have existed in some form before the release of the game. Maybe they weren't far enough along when BioWare had to make its decisions for ME2, but still. The comics are their own medium and what happens in them is in many ways seperate from what happens in the games.
I hope people are right that they've painted themselves into a corner and must treat Liara content with the respect and thought the most optimistic of us believe they will. I'm not so sure Liara is anything more than an after thought for ME2, and will remain so until ME3.
Man, I hope the pessimistic side of me is wrong.
#5671
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 05:00
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I don't think the problem of squadmates and old friends not recognizing each other is just in the Liara scene.
For one thing, I have never seen Ashley recognize Garrus, I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but it never comes up.
Garrus will say Ashley's last name once, but that is it.
I don't believe Anderson or Wrex says anything about Garrus or Tali either.
For one thing, I have never seen Ashley recognize Garrus, I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but it never comes up.
Garrus will say Ashley's last name once, but that is it.
I don't believe Anderson or Wrex says anything about Garrus or Tali either.
#5672
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 05:03
Noxis6
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Wrex says nothing but Ash recognizes Garrus I think you have to pick the neutral option the first time and your squad makeup may play into it too
#5673
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 05:04
Marcin K
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*complete fiction incoming, watch-out*LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Maybe what they originally intended Tali or Garrus to say to Liara or vice versa was rendered redundant when Redemption was conceived? Or, perhaps what Liara and Tali or Garrus will say to each other will be relevant to the comic, hence them not wanting to spoil. Is this problem exclusive to Liara, by the way? Do Tali and Garrus say anything special to Wrex or Anderson?
And I agree with everything Stubbs said above. They've designed Liara's story from the ground up to be very emotion driven, with her devotion to Shep and subsequent guilt and emotional torment for handing the body to Cerberus central. Realistically, they can't have Liara's DLC be all combat with minimal emotional and deep dialogue without it feeling unnatural.
reasons why Liara does not mention Garrus nor Tali:
-Tali while cleaning her suit inhalated some detergents and this caused short-term memory blackout , so she forgotten who Liara is and while she saw her, was so embraced that kept quiet
-Garrus got shot and haven't recovered 100% yet and have memory black-outs too
-Liara is being threaten by Captain Spock aside from TiM not to mention Tali or Garrus to Shep or the Enterprise will beam-out Shep into vaccum as they borrowed some spying devices from SB
*complete fiction ends:)*
Modifié par Marcin R, 14 mars 2010 - 05:07 .
#5674
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 05:05
Yeled
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Which speaks to my point. They didn't put much effort into continuity. They didn't consider anything carried over from ME1 very important. Liara included.
#5675
Posté 14 mars 2010 - 05:09
AndroLeonidas
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Maybe what they originally intended Tali or Garrus to say to Liara or vice versa was rendered redundant when Redemption was conceived? Or, perhaps what Liara and Tali or Garrus will say to each other will be relevant to the comic, hence them not wanting to spoil. Is this problem exclusive to Liara, by the way? Do Tali and Garrus say anything special to Wrex or Anderson?
And I agree with everything Stubbs said above. They've designed Liara's story from the ground up to be very emotion driven, with her devotion to Shep and subsequent guilt and emotional torment for handing the body to Cerberus central. Realistically, they can't have Liara's DLC be all combat with minimal emotional and deep dialogue without it feeling unnatural.
Bottom line is this. Through all of ME1 the relationship grew and grew. Then Shep dies and we have the comics. I do not care how much of a friend you are to a person, you are just NOT going to go through with what Liara went through to get your body back. It's just not realistic in my opinion. That is only done by someone who loves you more than most anything else in her life. Given the time they had together between killing Sovereign and the beginning events of ME2, what like five weeks, does anyone believe they would not have explored their relationship and melded minds to truly become ONE as Liara describes in ME1. Her emotions are just not someone who is looking for a friend. And her emotions in ME2 are someone in great torment, who wants to reach out to the one love in her life, the most important thing in her life, and she is being held back by some knowledge that they may still be in danger or something like that.
Bioware had built this up to be an epic love story... period. along the lines of Revan and Bastila... but more emotional and pulling. They simply have no alternative but to do a major expansion to bring at least some closure to this love. At the bare minimum and very least, allow Liara and Shep to express their love for one another at the end of the expansion after some serious emotional dialogue to clear the air. Once that is complete... she needs to join him on the Normandy. There is no other option. Are you going to leave the person you love more than life itself behind on some planet hundreds of light years away and 'go visit' them once in a while?
If Bioware does not do this... in my opinion they will lose much respect in the RPG world and from fans. If they do it and raise the bar in emotion and dialogue and gameplay, which they are perfectly capable of doing no doubt, then they will have succeeded where so many others have failed and they will earn droves of fans who will simply buy their games because of who they are.
Whew! Too much writing for a Sunday!
