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[jlb524]

Midnight Reyn wrote...

Great.

I'm annoyed at Bioware for making the Ash/Kaidan cameo interchangeable, and I wish they had given the two more unique lines, but I still feel like Ash is her own character. The Horizon scene certainly had more overlapping dialogue than I wanted to see, but the follow up email was 100% Ash - and as an Ash fan, that was lovely to see.

If the 'Virmire survivor' has no dialogue to distinguish them from eachother come ME3, then I, as an Ash fan,  will feel slighted because then they will simply be a placeholder. But I am willing to wait until ME3 before I commit to saying that Ash and Kaidan are now the same character.

If they continue on with this in ME3 (give Ashley and Kaidan interchangeable roles) that's just one more thing that will lead me closer to the edge.  Now that we are passed the cameo mess that was ME2, they need to develop these characters as individuals and not as a placeholder.

[Nozybidaj]

bjdbwea wrote...

Someone on this forums said that ME 2 feels more like the first part, and ME 1 could be the successor. That sums up my feelings. Except for the graphics of course, everything was more refined in ME 1 - gameplay, story, presentation, characters, even level design as far as the main story levels are concerned. And if you think about it, with some obviously necessary changes it could easily work from a story perspective too.

I don't think the sales numbers from part 1 disappointed them, on the contrary. It's always the same thing: Once a franchise is financially successful, it evokes the desire to make even more from it. So the next part has to be done a) quickly and with appeal to an even wider audience.

Also I have the feeling they figure that the old fans don't matter anymore. They seem to think that most will continue to buy anyway, and those who won't are acceptable losses in comparison to increased sales to the shooter and casual gamer market.

If you view it strictly from a business perspective, those presumptions indeed make sense. So no lamenting. It's just the way it is, and since EA calls the shots now, BioWare couldn't do differently even if they wanted. But this is not the topic to debate that again, and I'm sure it wouldn't be well-received, so let's leave it at that.

I think you make a lot of good points, I agree.  The old fans are seen as inconsequential while the focus is placed on expanding the market.  It certainly makes business sense, but still dissapointing to see from a company like BW who prior to ME2 I thought took their reputation as story tellers seriously and had enough pride in it not to compromise their IP and character's integrity just to make a few quick bucks.  I'll be much more wary of their products in the future, though, as you said, I am seen as an acceptable loss.

[Nozybidaj]

justinnstuff wrote...

Yeah, I guess you're right that it's not a true sequel. The game takes place after the first, but there's barely anything tying the two together, well except for the Reaper plot. Everything else just gets left behind.

Even the Reaper plot is only vaguely alluded to.  They could take mention of the Collectors working for the Reapers out of the game and it wouldn't change a single thing.

[Midnight Reyn]

jlb524 wrote...

If they continue on with this in ME3 (give Ashley and Kaidan interchangeable roles) that's just one more thing that will lead me closer to the edge.  Now that we are passed the cameo mess that was ME2, they need to develop these characters as individuals and not as a placeholder.

I completely agree.

And if Ash/Kaidan are being set up to be potential new LI's for those players who came into the series in ME2, and this new romance follows the same romance path and features the same dialogue options provided to those who romanced Ash/Kaidan in ME1 (ie if the 'romance' gets reset and starts from the beginning without any mention of previous history between Ash/Kaidan and Shep) then that will be it for me.

But that's probably a doomsday scenario that will never ever happen, and my pessimism is just getting the better of me.

So - time for positivity.

The Mass Effect 'verse needs more Liara.

[Nozybidaj]

justinnstuff wrote...

Well you do have to admit, there's more than alluding when you beat the game and you get to see the entire reaper fleet headed towards the milky way. You also board a derelict reaper to acquire its IFF. The reapers weren't the entire focus, but they weren't a loose end either.

/shrug  The IFF being on an abandoned reaper seemed a little contrived to me.  They could have easily had it been an abandoned Collector ship and it wouldn't have effected the overall story at all.  The end scene was just a nod to the overall contrived connection anyway.  You could take all mention of the reapers out of the game and it wouldn't change the plot or the flow of the game at all, is more my point.

[Nozybidaj]

justinnstuff wrote...

The Collectors were repurposed protheans. Repurposed by the reapers. There wouldn't be a collector base to destroy. The collectors wouldn't be taking human colonists and turning them into milkshakes to make another reaper. Take out the reapers from the plot and the collector base wouldn't even have a story to fall back on. They would have no origin, no reason to abduct humans, and hence no plot for ME2.

ME2 had a plot?

All I am saying is you could easily change all of that and it wouldn't change anything.  The reapers aren't entwined into the plot in any significant way.  They are just background noise.  The Collectors could have been just some rarely seen alien race and nothing in the game would have changed, the direction of the story wouldn't have changed, none of the major arcs of the game would have changed.

Maybe I am just not explaining it well?

[morrie23]

Some times I think Bioware simply went OTT in making new characters for ME2, a mean do really need 12 squadmates (by the time Kasumi rears her hooded head)? I'm not saying that I dislike the squad, I actually think most of them are very well characterised. I just wish, maybe they could of made a few less and spent the time fleshing out the reunion with Ash/Kaidan, or adding some more story missions. I've read some great fanfiction regarding the LI reunion that Bioware should take notes from. Obviously BW did want they did as not to confuse new players, either under their own volition or because of EA.



So much could of been done with Ash, Kaidan, and Liara in ME2. A missed opportunity if there ever was one. Fingers crossed for the future.

[WilliamShatner]

Liara + Samara in ME3. All asari team FTW!

[WilliamShatner]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I do agree that there was a lot of missed potential with regards to the Liara reunion and her appearance in ME2, but I'm confident that, after seeing the fanbase's reaction to how Liara was handled, that it'll be rectified in the DLC. If she's going to be a major character in the trilogy, as I believe, then BW won't leave Liara in ME2 as it is.

I'd be more confident if one of the devs/writers posted something about it.  As it stands now all we have to go by is an interview where the writers thinks the fans received the comic book with open arms.

[bjdbwea]

Even more so when you remember the end of ME 1, where Shepard walks away saying "the Reapers are still out there, and I'm going to find a way to stop them". I fully expected ME 2 to be about this search, with ME 3 being a long, grand finale. Now they'll have to do both in ME 3.

I have to say: If one of BioWare's guidelines was to speed up production, they didn't really think their ways to accomplish that through, with all the unnecessary new companions and developments. Much easier to rely on well-established foundations, like Liara. Or, for all I care, like Tali, could still have provided her romance.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 23 février 2010 - 08:33 .