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[Nozybidaj]

justinnstuff wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Taking all the choices into account and creating unique and meaningful outcomes based on them isn't something BW has shown they are willing to do up to this point.

Yeah, Nozy, I remember you are the one who constructed that Excel spreadsheet showing all possible romantic combinations for ME3.  It was quite mind-boggling with all the possible combinations of ME1/ME2 LI's, cheating/faithful, etc.

I rewrote the heretics and saved the Rachni queen. The Rachni queen save was definitely a good choice after finding her rep on Illium. I was surprised they added that in, but it was a pleasant surprise.

Back on topic of the quote, that was an impressive collaboration of data. With all those outcomes, it's going to be very hard for them to come up with some very deep LI scenes. There's just so many variables. I don't know how I feel about that yet.

Here is what jlb was refering to.  All the possible permutations of the ME1 and ME2 romances.



And the original thread in case you are interested in my breakdown: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1558692

Modifié par Nozybidaj, 22 mars 2010 - 05:23 .

[Little Mama]

Lets see.
I have two main Sheps.

Ella Shepard: female, paragon that went with Kaiden. Was my first play and I didnt wnt to find Liara until as 3.d mission.  My Shep was already involved with Kaiden then and almost automatically went with him. Saved the rachni Queen. 

Marc Shepard: male, renegade whos only love is Liara. 
He killed the rachni queen dispite Liaras protests.

As LI I think is easyer for a fem shep to be faithful since there is no interesting new candidates.
For male sheps there is more forbidden fruit to that tastes good.
Hard for a bad guy to keep his hands of...

Modifié par Little Mama, 22 mars 2010 - 05:32 .

[Nozybidaj]

Somebody1003 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Holy moly, Nozy. So many different possibilities and combinations.

How are they going to resolve it whilst still feeling real and believeable?

Maybe we wont be able to get any new romances in ME3, or allow us to romance previous LI if we didnt in ME1 or 2?

I linked the original thread with my thoughts, I think for the most part they will end up ignoring most of it.

[JPfanner]

I always do Paragon "big choices" but still do stuff like go Renegade on Balak and Charn in Bring Down the Sky, have a zero tolerance policy on hostage takers, and exercise my duly-given Specre powers to summarily execute anyone I think needs it. So Jacob's father definitely ends up dead and Sidonis gets a bullet in the noggin for being a traitor.

When I was talking to the rachni queen agent it was cool, but also kind of disturbing in some ways. She seemed a little too enthused about how great melding with the queen was for it not to seem a little creepy. I kept thinking of the phrase "hot bug sex" all during the conversation, even though melding isn't necessarily about sex at all. Then she says that the queen edited her memory to remove the location, so rachni being able to mess with people's minds isn't exactly comforting.

[Marcin K]

justinnstuff wrote...

General Stubbs wrote...
A Beautiful Blue Goddess a day keeps the doctor away. <3:wub:

Tell me about it. It's the only reason I've kept my sanity!! 

that deserves to became -OFFICIAL QUOTE OF THE DAY-
any opposed?

[Nozybidaj]

Somebody1003 wrote...

That would be unfortunate.
I hope that cheating on ME1 LI's will at least have some impact.

Like jlb said, you'll probably get a few lines of generic and interchangable dialogue and/or an email at your private terminal depending on how BW handles returning characters. 

It won't be the "dire consequences" they have been refered to as.  Assuming we'll get more than that would be assuming more than what BW has shown us they are capable/willing to do.

[bjdbwea]

Little Mama wrote...

As LI I think is easyer for a fem shep to be faithful since there is no interesting new candidates.
For male sheps there is more forbidden fruit to that tastes good.
Hard for a bad guy to keep his hands of...

I have to disagree. The female LIs in ME 2 may have had potential (though Jack feels out of place to me, and the Tali romance was obviously put in as fan service and took her character into a direction I don't think was intended by the developers initially). But the execution in ME 2 is very shallow in my opinion. There's just too little dialogue, too little actual, you know, romance. After having seen it all once, I have no interest in pursuing any of the romances in ME 2 again. The picture on the desk has more meaning and romantic appeal. Whereas I could still replay ME 1 just for the beautiful romances part alone, and not only the one with Liara, but Ash too.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 22 mars 2010 - 05:52 .

[Nozybidaj]

General Stubbs wrote...
BW somehow has to make the ME2
squaddies disappear for ME3, while making sure the ME2 LIs have a place
in ME3 somewhere.

/shrug  I don't see why they would need to.  BW has already shown that if they so choose they'll just make up anything no matter how flimsy to explain away someone from the previous installment not being in the follow up game.  I could see them very easily deciding "too much work" and viola the ME2 LI's now have "story reasons" why they aren't around anymore.  That's not to say I want them to, just that they have already shown us they "will" do this if "they" want to.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

As I've said before, I hope that if you're faithful to Liara throughout the trilogy that her romance path in ME3 goes beyond the "courting and consumation" that we've seen so far in BW games.

This could have played a part in the direction they chose for these characters in ME2.  Now in ME3 you get to do the "courting and consumation" all over again with the ME1 LI's.  If they decide not to include the ME2 LI's they don't have a single relationship they have to figure out how to progress beyond that.

[IndigoWolfe]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Of course, I'd love to have the special Liara romance epilogue too, for those of us who stayed loyal to Liara through the three games. Possibly becoming married or becoming bondmates, Liara giving birth to a little ShepAsari? Would be so heartwarming!

Yeah, I agree, but I don't think it's going to happen. The simplest explaination being that I think Bioware have thought of the possibility that not every player that romances Liara thoughout the entire trilogy would necessarily want a kid. They've said over and over again that they want the Mass Effect story to be what the player makes it, so I don't think they would force that kind of cannonity on the player.

And speaking practically, if Shepard were to have a child with just one of the romance interests, that would mean that he/she would have to have one with all of them (within reason). And I think that would probably take away a lot of the special feeling that an exclusive outcome would have. And if it were an exclusive outcome, then the fans of the other romances would reaalllyy get up in arms about it. I mean; have you seen some of the Kaidan fangirls clamouring for *cough* "Shenko Babies"? *cough* Dealing with their reaction to a Liara-exclusive child  would be a pain. But at the same time, if in some entirely unforseen turn of events where they do include a Liara-exclusive child, I think I would be happy all the same.

[JPfanner]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

As I've said before, I hope that if you're faithful to Liara throughout the trilogy that her romance path in ME3 goes beyond the "courting and consumation" that we've seen so far in BW games. I hope we get to talk to Liara about future plans, just how much we mean to each other and the true development of a deep, emotional and spiritual bond between Liara and Shepard. Something shows they're becoming true soulmates and bondmates.

Of course, I'd love to have the special Liara romance epilogue too, for those of us who stayed loyal to Liara through the three games. Possibly becoming married or becoming bondmates, Liara giving birth to a little ShepAsari? Would be so heartwarming!

The whole talking and then "we might die so let's get it on" near the end game has really really been done to death for sure.  I want a Mature rating to mean a mature handling of relationships instead of being able to drink kool-aid looking booze with a helmet on.
At least in Dragon Age you could develop the relationship during the game, including the "payoff", then you could still talk to them after that.  And other people commented on your relationship as it developed.  With Leliana we would talk about what we were going to do after the Blight was stopped, and Wynne would talk with you about her opinion on whether it was a good idea or not to maintain a relationship.  It felt like something real between two people that was going on that had nothing to do with where you were at in the main plot.
It sounds like DA:O took a few steps back for sure though and I haven't really felt like adding Leliana bruises on top of my Liara ones, so I haven't gotten that yet and probably won't for months.

[Yeled]

General Stubbs wrote...

JPfanner wrote...
That drawing is very nice. I honestly find it really difficult to pay much attention to art or even screenshots with Maleshep in them (not making any kind of criticism of anyone, just sharing my own feelings). My Femsheps have different hairstyles and colors and they're all Liarasexual, so it isn't that hard to get some extra personal meaning from pretty much any pciture of a Femshep and Liara. If there is a Maleshep around, my eyes keep wandering back to them and I think "Who is that and what are they doing with my Liara!"

Yeah, I always think the same way when I see MaleShep, Shep is absolutely a female for me.
I feel as though Liara just cheated on my Shep when I see her with MaleShep, lol.
I actually think that way with other games where you can create your own character (pretty much just RPGs, lol) as well.
Liara and Jennifer Hale's voice makes it have a greater of an impact for ME. Since Shep talks, you can definitely get more attached to the character, and already seeing Liara with your FemShep, it makes it seem weird when Liara is with a MaleShep.
When I see someone playing a male character in Fallout 3 I say to myself, "Are you absolutely sure that is The Lone Wanderer? I am pretty sure she is a woman".

I agree with JP and Stubbs.  Shep is female in my mind, and seeing dudeshep always strikes me as wrong in most any situation.  Dudeshep with Liara even moreso.  Even though logically I understand it, my brain goes, "Who the hell would draw Liara cheating on Shep with some dude?!!!"

[Driveninhifi]

Yeah, the squad member problem in ME3 is interesting for sure.

ME2 already has too many, so say they want to shoot for 8:



Ash/Kaidan and Liara should be on the Normandy, so that's 2.

Say they want 3 or so new characters, which brings it up to 5.

Then who fills out the last 3 spots?

If your ME2 LI is alive, they need to stay.

Especially Jack - if she's not the love interest then she probably doesn't care about the galaxy (though maybe Shepard taught her the value of friendship? Kind of cheesy). If she did fall in love with Shep, she's probably rabidly loyal though.

Miranda needs to stay, especially if she told TIM to shove off.

Garrus probably stays because he's your buddy and has nothing else to do.



Everyone else is up in the air.

[Yeled]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I hope you are right.  If they have Liara go nutso and try to physically hurt Shepard or the new LI, I will totally FREAK!!  That would be completely OOC for Liara.  I know some desire this because:  A)  They want to see a 'catfight' and have their ego stroked (which is the point of catfights I think).     They need a good reason to justify cheating on and dumping Liara (OMG!  Liara is crazy.... look what she did to Tali after I dumped her!!!   She soooo deserved it!!!!)

J I agree entirely. If they want to show consequences for your decision and to be "emotionally engaging", then they better damn well make players feel guilty for cheating on Liara. I really don't want her to go crazy and try to harm Shep, I want her to look absolutely distraught and emotionally wrenched at being treated that way after everything she's done for Shep. I know that sounds horrible, but I want people to feel guilty and feel terrible for trashing Liara like that, not feel some smug vague sense of satisfaction for it.

I agree.  I'd go further and offer that maybe Liara should leave the squad if that happens (assuming she's in the squad in ME3).  I don't want her to go crazy and run off in a huff, but I'd like to see her tell Shepard that she loves her anyway and its too painful for her to remain.  She knows what Shep is doing is important and will assist her in any way she can, but she can't remain on the ship.

Honestly if there is a cat fight I option I hope its not available for Liara (Ashley might simply punch Shep in the face rather than go after the new LI, then walk off).  People need to feel guilt, not justification, for their decision.