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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI

Débuté par Nozybidaj , févr. 18 2010 08:42

50907 réponses à ce sujet

#8576
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 11:28

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scmadsen wrote...

The perfect DLC for me...I'm not sure if I want a total redo of the reunion or a pickup from end game.

The most likely, will be pickup from end game, so I'll start there.

Liara emails you and says she has made a breakthrough and needs your help. Shepard races to Illium and there is a conversation about how she knows where the Shadow Broker will be, and if they hurry in Normandy, they can get to him/her/it. Paragon can kind of warn Liara, that cold revenge isn't the answerer, but give in, and tell her, that if this will help her, then lets go. Renegade can be like, lets go kick some ass, the Shadow Broker needs to die.

I'd like to see Liara and Shepard then talk on the Normandy while on the way, and we get Liara to explain some things, Why she wants to take out the Shadow Broker, what she has been doing for two years, and what was the details of the deal she made with TIM.

Then they land wherever, and we get just Liara and Shepard for the mission. Fighting mixed with some talking, and Liara opening up more, at talk points thru the mission. Liara telling Shepard what she's been thru, and Shepard comforting her. This goes on, till we reach the Shadow Broker.

Cue drama and fight. I'll leave this to more skillful writers.

Shadow Broker dead, Shepard can harden or soften Liara, who then becomes Renegade like Shepard, or we see all the walls Liara built up shatter, making her break down and cry, followed by Shepard comforting her, pulling her back, and helping her become more like her old self, making her Paragon.

Renegade Liara becomes the new Shadow Broker, and helps Shepard in ME3 in that role. She goes back to Illium. Paragon Liara, gives up her Information Broker life, and goes back with Shepard to the Normandy. To be a squadmate in ME3. 

If you take Liara back to the Normandy, then we get to talk to her, reaffirm that they love each other. Shepard asks Liara for forgiveness for not being there for her, and Liara asks Shepard for forgiveness for the whole Cerberus thing. They work things out, and become Bondmates again. They end with looking into each others eyes, hold hands, kiss, and meld. Fade to black without implied sex. Liara is then on the ship staying in your cabin, and you can cuddle and stuff with her. Perfect, would be also getting to talk with her. Telling and showing her things you found in ME2 while she was gone.

If they redo the whole thing. Then basicly the same, expect you do a few small missions, leading up to the big take down. All Shepard and Liara only, and all with talking points in the missions. Slowly getting Liara to open up, with Shepard comforting her along the way.


Agree with alot of that, but I take issue with the "Liara becoming the new SB" theory that I've seen bandied about. People seem to forget that her sole motivation for working as an information broker is to take out the Shadow Broker. Once he's gone, she's going to want to go with Shepard again, as she says in ME2.

Plus, it really wouldn't be fair for Renegades who want to continue their romance with Liara. If it's just Paragons who get to continue the romance and have her as a squadmate, then I'll be pretty pissed off on behalf of Renegade players.

#8577
Noxis6
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 11:39

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Agree with alot of that, but I take issue with the "Liara becoming the new SB" theory that I've seen bandied about. People seem to forget that her sole motivation for working as an information broker is to take out the Shadow Broker. Once he's gone, she's going to want to go with Shepard again, as she says in ME2.

Plus, it really wouldn't be fair for Renegades who want to continue their romance with Liara. If it's just Paragons who get to continue the romance and have her as a squadmate, then I'll be pretty pissed off on behalf of Renegade players.


Tbh I have issues with Liaras new job and the Liara as the next SB theory,but its this is not out of the world just because they dumped the old lines,I said it before if you look at it they just changed the order of things so far and again noone stops Bioware from recording new lines with the same story.
Personally I wouldnt want that,exspecially if the only thing Shepard can do is stand there and scratch his/her butt while she ascend to the SBs throne,taking my personal canon Sheps perspective removing a dangerous criminal is one thing but doing it just to replace him with another one is something different.
But so far we only have our own interpretations of the situation and frankly I'm not sure I want to know what Mac Walters "vision" for the whole thing is.

#8578
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 01:13

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LesEnfantsTerribles is right and Noxis6 is to, I have issues with Liara becoming the new SB, but I have no idea what BW will do about this, ------hell BW might have dug themselves a hole and can't get out of it......but thats highly unlikely

(thats what they did in Star Wars Kotor 2---Check Mate)

[Edit] I created a new poll for Xbox 360 lovers HERE

Modifié par GamerFSS86, 24 mars 2010 - 02:01 .

#8579
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 01:49

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Two weeks to go now until Redemption issue 4 is released!!



Feeling excited? I really cannot wait to find out what's going on with Liara in ME2. Hopefully we'll hear something about the Liara DLC oon after!

#8580
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 01:50

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scmadsen wrote...

I would restart a new game for Liara, she's worth it. But not everyone thinks that way.

That said, on the one hand, redoing that whole meeting on Illium would be good, it's really bad as it is now. They need to at the very least explain why it was like that.

On the other hand, it does work better to just do after the endgame.

Yeah, I would start a new character in ME1, level to 60, then play all of ME2 again for Liara. <3:wub:

I would be happy if the first reunion had at least a couple more conversation options (mostly for Shepard) just to make it more emotionally realistic for the DLC.
I  am pretty sure it will be after the endgame, the story wouldn't make any sense if it wasn't.

#8581
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 01:50

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Two weeks to go now until Redemption issue 4 is released!!

Feeling excited? I really cannot wait to find out what's going on with Liara in ME2. Hopefully we'll hear something about the Liara DLC oon after!


Amen.

#8582
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:01

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It would make perfect sense to hear something in or just right after the comic.
Why would EA wait months after the release to start advertising it? Comic interest is at it's peak by the fourth one and the amount of sales the comics have can be used as an indicator to how well the Liara DLC will sell.
They want to make people excited, that would be the best time to do it.

Now we just have to wait two weeks or so for news about it.
Time can go by so slowly when waiting to comfort The Beautiful Blue Goddess.

#8583
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:04

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General Stubbs wrote...
Yeah, I would start a new character in ME1, level to 60, then play all of ME2 again for Liara. <3:wub:

I would be happy if the first reunion had at least a couple more conversation options (mostly for Shepard) just to make it more emotionally realistic for the DLC.
I  am pretty sure it will be after the endgame, the story wouldn't make any sense if it wasn't.


My new FemShep that I'm playing through ME1 with, I'm actually not going to import her until we get the Liara DLC, so that I'll play through ME2 for the first time with her with Liara's proper ME2 role.

I really do think we will at least be able to talk about the relationship with Liara during or after the DLC, too. Comfort and console Liara, then both her and Shep can discuss the future, after rekindling their romance and love for each other. Can't wait!

#8584
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:07

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@General Stubbs,

I think BW did it on purpose about the Dialog, because of how Shepard felt (not us) and was emotionally torn from the fact of what happened to him/her in the start of ME2 and still had "Butterflies in his/her Stomach"

Do you think I'm right?

Modifié par GamerFSS86, 24 mars 2010 - 02:13 .

#8585
Yeled
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:07

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Somebody1003 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

Yeled wrote...

I think we need a Liara comic:

Don't you love elevators?


lmao

@somebody1003 - Tell me about it. I don't mind femshep but some of us have a dudeshep too :(

Yeah, Id like to see malesheps once in a while, I feel like Im in the minority here.:unsure:


First, Shepard is female!  I don't know why you guys keep refering to this "Ah yes, dudeshep.  I thought we had dismissed that claim."  Image IPB

Second, femshep is infinitely cooler than any dude.  A strong woman kicking ass and saving the galaxy?  Full of win.

Third, "lesbian mind sex" is hawt.  Image IPB

And fourth, and most importantly, if there were pictures of Liara with some dude, my mind would register that as Liara being unfaithful (which happens from time to time when I do see dudeshep-Liara art), and that makes me go Image IPB.

Modifié par Yeled, 24 mars 2010 - 02:28 .

#8586
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:17

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GamerFSS86 wrote...

@General Stubbs,

I think BW did it on purpose about the Dialog, because of how Shepard felt (not us) and was emotionally torn from the fact of what happened to him/her in the start of ME2 and still had "Butterflies in his/her Stomach"

Do you think I'm right?

Possibly, they could have tried to be a bit more subtle with the conversation and, unfortunately, made us all question their actions.
Idea's can look better on paper most of the time.
They could have been trying to kill two birds with one stone, not giving anything away for the Liara DLC, while still letting us know thay Shepard cares, because it was weird how she just sat there through the whole conversation with a dumb look on her face. They may have been trying to have us think that Shepard didn't know what to say once she met Liara.

#8587
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:26

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General Stubbs wrote...

GamerFSS86 wrote...

@General Stubbs,

I think BW did it on purpose about the Dialog, because of how Shepard felt (not us) and was emotionally torn from the fact of what happened to him/her in the start of ME2 and still had "Butterflies in his/her Stomach"

Do you think I'm right?

Possibly, they could have tried to be a bit more subtle with the conversation and, unfortunately, made us all question their actions.
Idea's can look better on paper most of the time.
They could have been trying to kill two birds with one stone, not giving anything away for the Liara DLC, while still letting us know thay Shepard cares, because it was weird how she just sat there through the whole conversation with a dumb look on her face. They may have been trying to have us think that Shepard didn't know what to say once she met Liara.


Yeah, I'm actually a little terrified to play ME2 again and see Liara's cold look on her face.......I mean what the hell? Liara has been through enough, and whatever she went through It must have been bad in person:crying:

when the Liara DLC comes out and we get to Finally comfort her I'll probably start crying (I'm sensitive, and proudly admit it) I read AndroLeonidas 
story about Liara and Shepard and I had to hold back the tears it was so beautiful

Modifié par GamerFSS86, 24 mars 2010 - 02:29 .

#8588
Yeled
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:26

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General Stubbs wrote...

GamerFSS86 wrote...

@General Stubbs,

I think BW did it on purpose about the Dialog, because of how Shepard felt (not us) and was emotionally torn from the fact of what happened to him/her in the start of ME2 and still had "Butterflies in his/her Stomach"

Do you think I'm right?

Possibly, they could have tried to be a bit more subtle with the conversation and, unfortunately, made us all question their actions.
Idea's can look better on paper most of the time.
They could have been trying to kill two birds with one stone, not giving anything away for the Liara DLC, while still letting us know thay Shepard cares, because it was weird how she just sat there through the whole conversation with a dumb look on her face. They may have been trying to have us think that Shepard didn't know what to say once she met Liara.


I'm mostly done trying to find justifications for what BioWare did in that scene.  SCMadsen's suggestion on the other thread (I Hate What They Did To Liara in ME2) was about as good an explanation as I've seen, but overall the writing was just a mess.  It comes down to this:  They contrived a way to keep Liara off the crew and they didn't spoil the comics.  Those two things were their first priorities.  Quality storytelling and player empowerment took a back seat.  End of story.

#8589
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:27

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Yeled wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

Yeled wrote...

I think we need a Liara comic:

Don't you love elevators?


lmao

@somebody1003 - Tell me about it. I don't mind femshep but some of us have a dudeshep too :(

Yeah, Id like to see malesheps once in a while, I feel like Im in the minority here.:unsure:


First, Shepard is female!  I don't know why you guys keep refering to this "Ah yes, dudeshep.  I thought we had dismissed that claim."  Image IPB

Second, femshep is infinitely cooler than any dude.  A strong woman kicking ass and saving the galaxy?  Fulf of win.

Third, "lesbian mind sex" is hawt.  Image IPB

And fourth, and most importantly, if there were pictures of Liara with some dude, my mind would register that as Liara being unfaithful (which happens from time to time when I do see dudeshep-Liara art), and that makes me go Image IPB.

Hell. Yeah.
I agree with all of that.

You know, I still give credit to BioWare for letting Shepard be a lesbian (even better, it is with Liara!! Whom is apparently asexual in Mr. Hudson's dream world, I am sure it is nice in there and full of asexual bunny rabbits and asexual rainbows), my characters never get romance otherwise.

Anyone else like that Bethseda will just go as far with your character being a lesbian as telling Amata, "I was just dreaming about you" Where she gets grossed out and shoots you down... Goddamn it, my character in Fallout 3 is so alone. I wish Liara was in there as well (except I wouldn't want her to be hurt by a centaur or radiation).

#8590
elitextrem3
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:31

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Hopefully Bioware will announce the Liara DLC after Redemption #4. I'm a little worried though, so far the DLC has just been awfull. I want a whole quest just with Liara and I want to be able to talk to her about the relationship. I want my Shepard to be able to tell her that he loves her, that he is sorry he wasn't there for her,  that he is going to help her and be with her always.

If what I get is just a hunt down and kill the SB quest then I'm going to be royaly pissed and I will lose all my faith in Bioware. Come Bioware make some good DLC for once, Liara deserves that and more. Also I want a hug interrupt, that ia all. Oh and Liara is awesome.Image IPB 

#8591
Yeled
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:35

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General Stubbs wrote...

Hell. Yeah.
I agree with all of that.

You know, I still give credit to BioWare for letting Shepard be a lesbian (even better, it is with Liara!! Whom is apparently asexual in Mr. Hudson's dream world, I am sure it is nice in there and full of asexual bunny rabbits and asexual rainbows), my characters never get romance otherwise.

Anyone else like that Bethseda will just go as far with your character being a lesbian as telling Amata, "I was just dreaming about you" Where she gets grossed out and shoots you down... Goddamn it, my character in Fallout 3 is so alone. I wish Liara was in there as well (except I wouldn't want her to be hurt by a centaur or radiation).


I agree.  Fallout 3 was a great game but it really needed romance and deeper relationships.  It would have been a much more emotionally resonant and meaningful experience if the lone wanderer could have developed some relationships beyond the one she had with her father.

But yes, BioWare deserves props for putting same sex relationships in some of their games.  I think they should add m/m in Mass Effect, and they should have had another f/f relationship option in ME2 (I'm looking at you, Miranda...I know you're attracted to femshep's strength and alpha personality) beyond Kelly.  But overall BioWare deserves a lot of credit for being on the leading edge of this issue.

#8592
Marcin K
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:36

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http://social.biowar...711/polls/3669/

my new pool, please vote if you like:)

#8593
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:37

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Yeled wrote...

General Stubbs wrote...

GamerFSS86 wrote...

@General Stubbs,

I think BW did it on purpose about the Dialog, because of how Shepard felt (not us) and was emotionally torn from the fact of what happened to him/her in the start of ME2 and still had "Butterflies in his/her Stomach"

Do you think I'm right?

Possibly, they could have tried to be a bit more subtle with the conversation and, unfortunately, made us all question their actions.
Idea's can look better on paper most of the time.
They could have been trying to kill two birds with one stone, not giving anything away for the Liara DLC, while still letting us know thay Shepard cares, because it was weird how she just sat there through the whole conversation with a dumb look on her face. They may have been trying to have us think that Shepard didn't know what to say once she met Liara.


I'm mostly done trying to find justifications for what BioWare did in that scene.  SCMadsen's suggestion on the other thread (I Hate What They Did To Liara in ME2) was about as good an explanation as I've seen, but overall the writing was just a mess.  It comes down to this:  They contrived a way to keep Liara off the crew and they didn't spoil the comics.  Those two things were their first priorities.  Quality storytelling and player empowerment took a back seat.  End of story.


Of course BW is gonna do that, To make money off of us is their First Priority above all else, and just because I wrote that explanation before doesn't mean I totally agree with it, I'm just trying to make everyone feel better (if everyone is hurting the same way I am then it's pretty bad)

#8594
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:37

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Marcin R wrote...

http://social.biowar...711/polls/3669/
my new pool, please vote if you like:)


Wow, 3 way draw.

#8595
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:39

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Not that I am trying to give BioWare a free pass or anything, but I still believe it was EA holding them back.
I am sure BioWare probably had other ideas for the scene, but once the publisher wants marketing to go a certain way, you bend over backwards to make it happen.

I have seen really weird requests like that in other companies (obviously, not exactly like this) it makes perfect sense to keep people wondering about Liara and not have Shep show any emotions, but it doesn't work that well in a video game. There needed to be at the very, vey least an "I love you" from Shepard when Liara says, "I couldn't let you go".

If EA was telling BioWare not to do anything, then what they put in the scene was the best they could do under the circumstances, the only route they would have to go at that point would be the subtle route.
They put too much into the scene for it to be an oversight or bad writing, they wrote Liara's dialogue well and showed her emotions perfectly, so why didn't Shepard react? The only answer I can see is EA didn't want them to do anything until after the comics.
Which isn't BioWare's fault, it was just the circumstances they were under.

@GamerFSS86: Yeah, the closest I have ever come to crying in a video game (never cried in any form of entertainment) was during the Liara reunion and when Shepard died. (I am sure Shepard was thinking about Liara when she was falling and we already know how Liara felt when Shepard died in the comics).
You have to admit, if it wasn't for EA, the reunion would have been the most emotional scene in any video game ever.
The emotions are still coming in the Liara DLC, we just had to wait longer, which usually means they will be better.

#8596
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:40

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Marcin R wrote...

http://social.biowar...711/polls/3669/
my new pool, please vote if you like:)


I put a comment on it! I don't have the DLC yet

here's a poll for xbox lovers HERE

#8597
JPfanner
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:40

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The scene was just written shallowly, poorly, and for default non-import Shepard. All the issues people raise about it not making sense are true, and the writers had to be aware of it as well. But instead of addressing them they just ignored them. Like they said, "How are we going to handle Liara and Shepard being lovers?" and the answer was "Never mention it."



Parthogenesis has been induced in rabbits interestingly enough. Nothing to do with asari reproduction and I'm certainly not defending Casey's comments. I've torn into them repeatedly in this thread myself. Just throwing out there that we have and can do it with higher mammals.



That sucks about Fallout 3. Fallout 2 had a lot for lesbians. You could get married, get seduced my a mobsters wife, and "train up" at the brothel. Plus there were perks like Sexpert and Kama Sutra Master : )

#8598
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:41

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 EA: Assuming Direct Control

#8599
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:41

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GamerFSS86 wrote...

Marcin R wrote...

http://social.biowar...711/polls/3669/
my new pool, please vote if you like:)


I put a comment on it! I don't have the DLC yet

here's a poll for xbox lovers HERE


Xbox elite, at your service B)

#8600
Yeled
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:45

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I don't think it was EA. I think EA may have given them a release date and that rushed BioWare a bit. And yeah, they probably needed to avoid spoilers for the comics.



But the idea to keep Liara out of the squad was BioWare's, and it was there from the beginning. They executed that design decision poorly, coming up with excuses rather than quality storytelling in order to make it happen. Someone rightfully pointed out that the only difference between Liara and any squadmate in ME2 was that they didn't let you resolve her issue or promise to help her later. And the only way they thought of to achieve that was to make Shepard sit there like an idiot and not react.



That's not on EA. That's on BioWare.
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