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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI

Débuté par Nozybidaj , févr. 18 2010 08:42

50907 réponses à ce sujet

#8601
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:49

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General Stubbs wrote...

Not that I am trying to give BioWare a free pass or anything, but I still believe it was EA holding them back.
I am sure BioWare probably had other ideas for the scene, but once the publisher wants marketing to go a certain way, you bend over backwards to make it happen.

I have seen really weird requests like that in other companies (obviously, not exactly like this) it makes perfect sense to keep people wondering about Liara and not have Shep show any emotions, but it doesn't work that well in a video game. There needed to be at the very, vey least an "I love you" from Shepard when Liara says, "I couldn't let you go".

If EA was telling BioWare not to do anything, then what they put in the scene was the best they could do under the circumstances, the only route they would have to go at that point would be the subtle route.
They put too much into the scene for it to be an oversight or bad writing, they wrote Liara's dialogue well and showed her emotions perfectly, so why didn't Shepard react? The only answer I can see is EA didn't want them to do anything until after the comics.
Which isn't BioWare's fault, it was just the circumstances they were under.

@GamerFSS86: Yeah, the closest I have ever come to crying in a video game (never cried in any form of entertainment) was during the Liara reunion and when Shepard died. (I am sure Shepard was thinking about Liara when she was falling and we already know how Liara felt when Shepard died in the comics).
You have to admit, if it wasn't for EA, the reunion would have been the most emotional scene in any video game ever.
The emotions are still coming in the Liara DLC, we just had to wait longer, which usually means they will be better.


and what you said about Liara saying "I couldn't let you go" and then Shep says "I love you", I wished I could of said that, and I don't think anything else in the entire game hurt me any more than from that moment on

Modifié par GamerFSS86, 24 mars 2010 - 02:49 .

#8602
JPfanner
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:50

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Yeled wrote...
But yes, BioWare deserves props for putting same sex relationships in some of their games.  I think they should add m/m in Mass Effect, and they should have had another f/f relationship option in ME2 (I'm looking at you, Miranda...I know you're attracted to femshep's strength and alpha personality) beyond Kelly.  But overall BioWare deserves a lot of credit for being on the leading edge of this issue.

Silver Fox + female Spirit Monk in Jade Empire was done well with the flirting, they copped out on the romance scene though and it was the standard "we might die, so let's get it on" climax.  You did get a cool resolution for the relationship at the end though.
Leliana +female Warden in Dragon Age was just simply beautiful.  Leliana is just adorable and the relationship was handled so well in every way.  The bikinis and not being able to see the cinematic more than once was slightly annoying, but I'm not really all that visually oriented.  The relationship *felt* wonderful.

#8603
Yeled
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:50

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JPfanner wrote...

The scene was just written shallowly, poorly, and for default non-import Shepard. All the issues people raise about it not making sense are true, and the writers had to be aware of it as well. But instead of addressing them they just ignored them. Like they said, "How are we going to handle Liara and Shepard being lovers?" and the answer was "Never mention it." 


I agree.

JPfanner wrote...

That sucks about Fallout 3. Fallout 2 had a lot for lesbians. You could get married, get seduced my a mobsters wife, and "train up" at the brothel. Plus there were perks like Sexpert and Kama Sutra Master : )


Really?  I never played Fallout 2.  In Bethesda's defense, I don't think the male lone wanderer got any better than the female.  There just weren't options like that in the game.  And either gender could pay a female prostitute to sleep with them, but I think on post-apocalyptic earth things are a lot more tame than they are today.  The prostitute just sleeps next to you in a bed, and both of you are fully dressed.  Apparently prostitutes don't perform sexual acts.  They just keep your bed warm.  Image IPB

#8604
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:50

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justinnstuff wrote...

GamerFSS86 wrote...

Marcin R wrote...

http://social.biowar...711/polls/3669/
my new pool, please vote if you like:)


I put a comment on it! I don't have the DLC yet

here's a poll for xbox lovers HERE


Xbox elite, at your service B)


HaHa, I have a custom Green Xbox 360 with 2 extra fans and LEDs every where=]

#8605
Yeled
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:54

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JPfanner wrote...

Yeled wrote...
But yes, BioWare deserves props for putting same sex relationships in some of their games.  I think they should add m/m in Mass Effect, and they should have had another f/f relationship option in ME2 (I'm looking at you, Miranda...I know you're attracted to femshep's strength and alpha personality) beyond Kelly.  But overall BioWare deserves a lot of credit for being on the leading edge of this issue.

Silver Fox + female Spirit Monk in Jade Empire was done well with the flirting, they copped out on the romance scene though and it was the standard "we might die, so let's get it on" climax.  You did get a cool resolution for the relationship at the end though.
Leliana +female Warden in Dragon Age was just simply beautiful.  Leliana is just adorable and the relationship was handled so well in every way.  The bikinis and not being able to see the cinematic more than once was slightly annoying, but I'm not really all that visually oriented.  The relationship *felt* wonderful.


I agree about Lelianna, though I think in my next DA run I'm going to enter into a relationship with her, then break up and enter into the Alistair relationship.  I want my new human noble to be queen, and I need Alistair to sacrifice himself at the end for me so I don't have to die this time around (though that was the perfect ending for my original character).  Image IPB

Did they actually crop out the Silver Fox + Spirit Monk scene?  I mean, I know you didn't see anything, but was there an actual scene that got cut?  If there was I never saw it.

#8606
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:54

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JPfanner wrote...

The scene was just written shallowly, poorly, and for default non-import Shepard. All the issues people raise about it not making sense are true, and the writers had to be aware of it as well. But instead of addressing them they just ignored them. Like they said, "How are we going to handle Liara and Shepard being lovers?" and the answer was "Never mention it."

Parthogenesis has been induced in rabbits interestingly enough. Nothing to do with asari reproduction and I'm certainly not defending Casey's comments. I've torn into them repeatedly in this thread myself. Just throwing out there that we have and can do it with higher mammals.

That sucks about Fallout 3. Fallout 2 had a lot for lesbians. You could get married, get seduced my a mobsters wife, and "train up" at the brothel. Plus there were perks like Sexpert and Kama Sutra Master : )


Don't forget that in Fallout 2 you could become a porn star:lol:

#8607
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 02:57

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@JPfanner:
Yeah, not that parthenogenesis doesn't occur in nature with other animals, but I just laugh that some people (one man to be more specific) think it is a gender, lol.
Really? there were actually options to be a lesbian in Fallout 2? That sucks that Bethesda didn't actually add those lesbian relationships in there. That one conversation option with Amata in the beginning is the only way your character can show she is a lesbian.

@Yeled:
Yeah, I would support a m/m option would have been good for those who want to have it.
Not that I would cheat on Liara, but I definitely thought Miranda would have been an f/f option, she seems like she would be interested in Shep if you flirted with her.
Yeah, at least they put lesbian options for Kelly in there, she seems to have sex with everything that moves though.
That prostitute option in Fallout 3 was pathetic, lol. My character did not pay good money to sleep beside someone for a couple of hours. She wants a relationship in Fallout 3 with another woman!!!

#8608
JPfanner
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:01

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Yeled wrote...
I don't think it was EA. I think EA may have given them a release date and that rushed BioWare a bit. And yeah, they probably needed to avoid spoilers for the comics.

But the idea to keep Liara out of the squad was BioWare's, and it was there from the beginning. They executed that design decision poorly, coming up with excuses rather than quality storytelling in order to make it happen. Someone rightfully pointed out that the only difference between Liara and any squadmate in ME2 was that they didn't let you resolve her issue or promise to help her later. And the only way they thought of to achieve that was to make Shepard sit there like an idiot and not react.

That's not on EA. That's on BioWare.

Not sure if it was mine or not, but I did ramble on about that in this post on here a few days ago.
http://social.biowar...341/294#1804534

#8609
Marcin K
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:06

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Shadowcat101 wrote...


Image IPB

WOW missed it earlier
NICE!

#8610
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:10

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Yeled wrote...

I don't think it was EA. I think EA may have given them a release date and that rushed BioWare a bit. And yeah, they probably needed to avoid spoilers for the comics.

But the idea to keep Liara out of the squad was BioWare's, and it was there from the beginning. They executed that design decision poorly, coming up with excuses rather than quality storytelling in order to make it happen. Someone rightfully pointed out that the only difference between Liara and any squadmate in ME2 was that they didn't let you resolve her issue or promise to help her later. And the only way they thought of to achieve that was to make Shepard sit there like an idiot and not react.

That's not on EA. That's on BioWare.

That is right. But, usually the fault lies on all parties involved, not just one.
It was probably a combination of the bad storyline, wanting to save Liara for ME3, the comics, and DLC.

BioWare definitely shouldn't be excused for it, but I do think the lack of any emotions whatsoever for Shep was a little bit suspicious after Liara just poured out her soul to you.
EA might have been behind any lack of emotions in the scene because of the comics and BioWare is behind the bad writing of the storyline in general.
Although, the publisher does have a lot of power, it was probably EA's idea to make ME2 standalone for the extra cash. You could tell BioWare wanted to continue ME1 directly into ME2 by the way ME1 ended.

Of course, BioWare didn't have to go the suicide mission route. That is their fault.

Modifié par General Stubbs, 24 mars 2010 - 03:11 .

#8611
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:14

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Yeled wrote...

First, Shepard is female!  I don't know why you guys keep refering to this "Ah yes, dudeshep.  I thought we had dismissed that claim."  Image IPB

Second, femshep is infinitely cooler than any dude.  A strong woman kicking ass and saving the galaxy?  Full of win.

Third, "lesbian mind sex" is hawt.  Image IPB

And fourth, and most importantly, if there were pictures of Liara with some dude, my mind would register that as Liara being unfaithful (which happens from time to time when I do see dudeshep-Liara art), and that makes me go Image IPB.

Shepard is a man, a woman saving the galaxy?<_<
Thats rich.:lol:

#8612
JPfanner
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:15

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Yeled wrote...
I agree about Lelianna, though I think in my next DA run I'm going to enter into a relationship with her, then break up and enter into the Alistair relationship.  I want my new human noble to be queen, and I need Alistair to sacrifice himself at the end for me so I don't have to die this time around (though that was the perfect ending for my original character).  Image IPB

Did they actually crop out the Silver Fox + Spirit Monk scene?  I mean, I know you didn't see anything, but was there an actual scene that got cut?  If there was I never saw it.

I was already ticked off at the Wardens to begin.  It is pretty horrific what could happen to you as a woman with that taint you got from the joining.  So I was just ending the Blight to get it over with so Leliana and I could wander off together.  And in order to be around to do that, I had to persuade Alistair for a REALLY big favor.  Kind of like Liara couldn't let Shepard go, I couldn't let Leliana go and all of creation was worth risking for that.
I've never seen anything more with the scene in Jade Empire than what is shown or heard about anything.  It just felt like it had been edited down for release because of the abrupt POV change.

#8613
Guest_GamerFSS86_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:15

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I know this is off topic but have you all seen my cute Ferret I uploaded to my album?

#8614
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:16

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Somebody1003 wrote...

Yeled wrote...

First, Shepard is female!  I don't know why you guys keep refering to this "Ah yes, dudeshep.  I thought we had dismissed that claim."  Image IPB

Second, femshep is infinitely cooler than any dude.  A strong woman kicking ass and saving the galaxy?  Full of win.

Third, "lesbian mind sex" is hawt.  Image IPB

And fourth, and most importantly, if there were pictures of Liara with some dude, my mind would register that as Liara being unfaithful (which happens from time to time when I do see dudeshep-Liara art), and that makes me go Image IPB.

Shepard is a man, a woman saving the galaxy?<_<
Thats rich.:lol:


Oh god. Please don't start. *runs for cover* :o

#8615
morrie23
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:16

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You're playing with fire Somebody... ;)

Modifié par morrie23, 24 mars 2010 - 03:17 .

#8616
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:23

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morrie23 wrote...

You're playing with fire Somebody... ;)

Yeah, I'm moving the artillery in place now. ;)
The writing on the shell says "Shepard is a woman goddamn it!". :D

Modifié par General Stubbs, 24 mars 2010 - 03:23 .

#8617
Jamelo
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:25

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I would want Liara as a squadmate in ME3 if she wasn't such a douche in ME2. She's not anything like the Liara from ME1, and I honestly hated her character in ME2. They never should have changed her into this hardcore character...her VA can't pull it off, and it was needless. Not to mention I love how she wont tell you the details...Your freaking commander Shepard, the man who stopped Saren and the Reapers. She doesn't think that you could help capture the Shadow Broker?

#8618
morrie23
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:25

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Stubbs, we should get hold of one of those cannons, you know to ensure BioWare does Liara justice in DLC and ME3.

#8619
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:26

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Jamelo wrote...

I would want Liara as a squadmate in ME3 if she wasn't such a douche in ME2. She's not anything like the Liara from ME1, and I honestly hated her character in ME2. They never should have changed her into this hardcore character...her VA can't pull it off, and it was needless. Not to mention I love how she wont tell you the details...Your freaking commander Shepard, the man who stopped Saren and the Reapers. She doesn't think that you could help capture the Shadow Broker?


Just keep in mind she helped recover Shepard. She might be colder in ME2, but she's always looked out for Shepard. Even after he died.

#8620
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:28

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Playing through ME1 now with a FemShep, I have to say I do prefer Shepard as a woman, and I like Liara's romance with a FemShep too. I like to pretend that throughout her life, Shepard has had to deal with prejudice and being ostracised over being a lesbian, and was shunned somewhat by her fellow officers in the Alliance. When she found Liara, though, they fell into each other's arms and deeply in love. Shepard, having never really had a serious relationship before, and Liara, the shy, reclusive, compassionate scientist who hid herself away from other people. It's the perfect match, and they love each other deeply.

#8621
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:30

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morrie23 wrote...

Stubbs, we should get hold of one of those cannons, you know to ensure BioWare does Liara justice in DLC and ME3.

Yeah, point one at Casey Hudson's house and another at BioWare headquarters.
The writing on those shells should say, "Justice for Liara is here if you screw up". :D

#8622
JPfanner
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:31

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General Stubbs wrote...
@JPfanner:
Yeah, not that parthenogenesis doesn't occur in nature with other animals, but I just laugh that some people (one man to be more specific) think it is a gender, lol.
Really? there were actually options to be a lesbian in Fallout 2? That sucks that Bethesda didn't actually add those lesbian relationships in there. That one conversation option with Amata in the beginning is the only way your character can show she is a lesbian.

Yep, I was just saying that we've done it with rabbits since 1936 as a point of interest.  Really, the only reason it hasn't been done with humans are ethical concerns and there is some contention whether people have already done it or not anyway.  Considering that Miranda is 35 in ME2, it seems like alternate means of human reproduction might not be common, but it isn't totally unheard of either and has been going on for some time.  I probably bore people with always posting about asari physiology and genetics, but it is really interesting to me and I enjoy discussing and speculating on it.
Fallout 2 has a lot of lesbian content.  I think they just released a compilation of Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout: Tactics here a little bit ago for the PC even.  You can get married to a woman, and she becomes a member of your party and follows you around the whole game.  You even get to talk about your wife with other people in the game.  It is even referenced when you get seduced by that mobster's wife.  It was a lot of fun all around.

#8623
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:31

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Jamelo wrote...

I would want Liara as a squadmate in ME3 if she wasn't such a douche in ME2. She's not anything like the Liara from ME1, and I honestly hated her character in ME2. They never should have changed her into this hardcore character...her VA can't pull it off, and it was needless. Not to mention I love how she wont tell you the details...Your freaking commander Shepard, the man who stopped Saren and the Reapers. She doesn't think that you could help capture the Shadow Broker?


Wait for the comics to finish, and for the Liara DLC to be released, my friend. That way, we'll finally be able to see Liara's full ME2 role as BW has always intended, and get more insight into what happened to her and her guilt and emotional torment she's suffered.

When Liara breaks down to Shepard, and admits all her emotional pain and guilt, then you'll sympathise with her. Until then, BW had their hands tied behind their backs with Liara's content in ME2 so as not to spoil the comics.

#8624
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Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:31

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Playing through ME1 now with a FemShep, I have to say I do prefer Shepard as a woman, and I like Liara's romance with a FemShep too. I like to pretend that throughout her life, Shepard has had to deal with prejudice and being ostracised over being a lesbian, and was shunned somewhat by her fellow officers in the Alliance. When she found Liara, though, they fell into each other's arms and deeply in love. Shepard, having never really had a serious relationship before, and Liara, the shy, reclusive, compassionate scientist who hid herself away from other people. It's the perfect match, and they love each other deeply.

What about dont ask dont tell?:?

And I just cant see Shepard as a woman.:ph34r:

I dont know why so many people here dislike maleshep.:unsure:

Modifié par Somebody1003, 24 mars 2010 - 03:36 .

#8625
morrie23
Posté 24 mars 2010 - 03:37

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@Somebody. I like playing as either TBH, I generally play as a male character in RPGs but ME was one of the few were I enjoyed playing as a female. I don't think either one is better really, they just bring slightly different flavours to the game and allow one to rp differently (Les gave a fine example of rp'ing a FemShep-Liara romance).
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