50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Nozybidaj]

MoSa09 wrote...


yeah, these are some important things. I f have seen what Cerberus did with the Rachni, i was sole survivor of Akuze, and i never could talk to Tim.

And the strangest thing was that, as you said, your old romance was not acknowledged by your old crewmates. I mean, Tali and Garrus must have known, and both have no issues or even ask you about what's the deal you are now making out with them. Not very realistic, any normal person would like to know what's going on and what the feeling of Shep are "Am i just an adventure as long is his former love is not available"?  To me, it doens't seem to fit Tali's character to simply cheat without a fuss on a former crewmate and maybe friend, even if Shepard has no issues with it.
I know making games is difficult, and it's never finished in a way you can always add some stuff to it, so at a certain point you have to declare it done and live with the result, especially as it get's more and more expansive with time passing, but they definetively wasted some atmospheric potential there

Well there are a lot of cases like that of folks not acting realistically.  Many of the posts over the last couple of pages demonstrate that.  I assume the story was written with the assumption people wouldn't think about it too much and just "jump right into the action".  Remember the main target audience of ME2 is very different from the target audience of ME1.  The story didn't need to be as tight and have as realistic portrayls as ME1.

[screwoffreg]

Slakky wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

Unato wrote...

that's true, I think the entire Liara story was rewritten not only to accomodate the comic but also for future content that they may or maynot be released

Translation.... the entire Liara story was rewritten to squeeze more money out of her fans.
<_<

I'm thinking it was more down to genuine playtesting and plot development issues.  Playtesters didn't understand who Liara and the Shadow Broker were, and Liara being the new SB doesn't fit with the long term direction they want for her.

If it was just cash, they could have clipped that entire mission out and sold it separately without any trouble.  Instead they pulled some weird last minute butchery where they inserted another throwaway Drell and seriously compromised Legion's character development.

It is pretty clear the current order of recruitment was hastily put together.  The fact that Legion and Tali have lines for every mission BEFORE they are recruited now shows this.  As you said, Legion in particular was screwed over. I'd rather have Legion and Liara make out and then able to recruiter the Geth earlier than a knock-off Thane.  

Modifié par screwoffreg, 24 février 2010 - 02:45 .

[Driveninhifi]

I'm assuming the recruitment order changed over and over and over during development. Perhaps it was originally supposed to be completely open and allow you to do them in any order? Then they decided that may be too overwhelming so they went with what shipped.

There are definitely parts of the game that feel like they really could have used an outside observer coming in and saying "This works. This doesn't. This works. This is dumb."

When Pixar makes a movie, the directors of the other movies in production watch the in-development versions and offer critiques. Now, Mass Effect is way, way, way larger than a movie, and BioWare may indeed do something like this - I really don't know. It's really, really hard to be objective when you're in the middle of something. But I'd think stuff like the planet scanning wouldn't have shipped if more people outside people played it, since I don't haven't heard of ANYONE enjoying it.

The handling of the ME1 love interests also stands out as something that is much lower-quality than the rest of the experience. The fixes aren't hard, per se, but they should be brought up. It's also very possible they ran out of time, or had a deadline for the story and VO and weren't able to change things.

[bjdbwea]

screwoffreg wrote...

Wasn't real impressed though they promise a "SHOCKING" ending.

Did they now. How about this: Is it written in stone that all comic issues have to tell the story before ME 2? How about the last issue plays after ME 2, and Liara gets killed during her hunt for the SB? Anyone can come up with a worse idea? Maybe we should make a contest out of it, just in case the writers run out of bad ideas.

As for the rest: Yeah, more and more I feel this game was supposed to be quite different, but hacked apart and hastily put together again, leaving out bits and pieces in the process. It's not nearly as bad as KotoR 2, but it's sad to think of what could've been. Back in the days, Mr. Gaider worked in his free time on a mod to make the ending of BG 2 ToB even better, closer to what was intended. We'll never see something like that again, but ME 2 could damn well use it. Instead even fan-made modding is pretty much blocked.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 24 février 2010 - 03:10 .

[screwoffreg]

bjdbwea wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Wasn't real impressed though they promise a "SHOCKING" ending.

Did they now. How about this: Is it written in stone that all comic issues have to tell the story before ME 2? How about the last issue plays after ME 2, and Liara gets killed during her hunt for the SB? Anyone can come up with a worse idea? Maybe we should make a contest out of it, just in case the writers run out of bad ideas.

As for the rest: Yeah, more and more I feel this game was supposed to be quite different, but hacked apart and hastily put together again, leaving out bits and pieces in the process. It's not nearly as bad as KotoR 2, but it's sad to think of what could've been. Back in the days, Mr. Gaider worked in his free time on a mod to make the ending of BG 2 ToB even better, closer to what was intended. We'll never see something like that again, but ME 2 could damn well use it. Instead even fan-made modding is pretty much blocked.

Yeah, Gaider's mods were awesome.  If you play BG 2 these days, they are pretty much MANDATORY.

[Sharn01]

No one was mad with BG2 as far as I can remember. Gaider was going out of his way to make something that was already done very well even better, you do not see that kind of thing anymore.

[screwoffreg]

Sharn01 wrote...

No one was mad with BG2 as far as I can remember. Gaider was going out of his way to make something that was already done very well even better, you do not see that kind of thing anymore.

That's the truth.  Baldurs Gate is really the closest we will get to the "perfect" RPG.  Amazing story, great characters, decent (though easy by end game) combat, and just overall a great experience.  Dragon Age came very close, I admit, like 90 percent of the way.  ME 2 is like 85, but Baldurs Gate II and beyond in particular just have that special magic to them.

I replay Baldurs Gate II religiously at least every year and a half since it came out.  No matter how fancy graphics may get, it will always be installed on ANY system I have...with the tons of mods I am used to!! 

Modifié par screwoffreg, 24 février 2010 - 03:24 .

[Sharn01]

Baldur's Gate had its moments of not being good, but we never thought anything of them because at the time it came out it was the best there was and nothing could compare to it.



My example would be how some of the NPC dialog is not fitting unless you are playing a Male Human Fighter with low intelligence, wisdom and charisma.



However, the little bad was small in the huge scope of the game, there is probably 100 times as much dialog in BG2 then there is in ME2, maybe more, its scope is just to epic to really compare, so thing's like that are easily over looked when a game gets so much right.



But then that goes for the original Mass Effect as well, it had its share of problems, but its so easy to overlook them when they got so much of everything else right.

[bjdbwea]

For me, BG 2 and ME 1 are the best games I've ever played. Even though very different, I'd really put them both on the same level of enjoyment. ME 2 falls far short of that, unfortunately. And the LI issue is only one of the reasons, but if they'd at least got that right, it would've made the game a whole lot better simply by drawing atmosphere from memories of part 1, instead of crushing it.

[screwoffreg]

bjdbwea wrote...

For me, BG 2 and ME 1 are the best games I've ever played. Even though very different, I'd really put them both on the same level of enjoyment. ME 2 falls far short of that, unfortunately. And the LI issue is only one of the reasons, but if they'd at least got that right, it would've made the game a whole lot better simply by drawing atmosphere from memories of part 1, instead of crushing it.

Middle sequels in trilogy's always seem a bit weaker.  No real beginning, no ending, people try new things and sometimes they fall flat.  I have every hope ME 3 will be AWESOME though.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 24 février 2010 - 03:33 .

[Sharn01]

screwoffreg wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

For me, BG 2 and ME 1 are the best games I've ever played. Even though very different, I'd really put them both on the same level of enjoyment. ME 2 falls far short of that, unfortunately. And the LI issue is only one of the reasons, but if they'd at least got that right, it would've made the game a whole lot better simply by drawing atmosphere from memories of part 1, instead of crushing it.

Middle sequels in trilogy's always seem a bit weaker.  No real beginning, no ending, people try new things and sometimes they fall flat.  I have every hope ME 3 will be AWESOME though.

I wish I shared your optimism, but at least I cant be disappointed.  At worst ME3 will be the game I fear it will be, anything else will surprise me.

[Unato]

think it was an interview that said the comics will bridge ME1 and ME2... can't remember and too lazy to look



as for Shale in DA:O she was cut because her original model was the same as all other golems in game which was too large to walk through doors etc when DA:O got delayed they went back to integrate her into the game. ME2 is different, even if it got delayed ( and I think it did by a month or 2? ) you can't just can't rearrange the whole story and slot in new elements



someone said on the forums BW stated in an interview that VO work was done late in production, as yet I haven't seen an interview that said that so I still believe VO work was done mid / early production, you record a bunch of lines and the developers and writers will use it if they want or not if it doesn't fit. As for why they aren't taken out of the game... well the afc containers are pretty decent compression, sure it might contain a couple of 100 audio files but it never exceeds more then 25megs and most are less then 10, the amount of space saved taking them out would be negligible

[bjdbwea]

I certainly hope so too. However, as discussed before, I fear the problems are more due to outer circumstances, than due to actual story and plot reasons. Therefore I won't hold my breath. But wait and see is all we can do anyway. And voice our hope for Liara to play an important role, to stay on topic.

[screwoffreg]

I personally am holding off any future characters until SOME DLC. I don't look forward to the mad rush to bring all my characters up to speed by doing the same mission over and over and doing a lot of DLC post-game seems lame as the whole COLLECTORS ARE COMING rush feeling is gone.

[flem1]

MoSa09 wrote...

And the strangest thing was that, as you said, your old romance was not acknowledged by your old crewmates. I mean, Tali and Garrus must have known, and both have no issues or even ask you about what's the deal you are now making out with them. Not very realistic, any normal person would like to know what's going on and what the feeling of Shep are "Am i just an adventure as long is his former love is not available"?  To me, it doens't seem to fit Tali's character to simply cheat without a fuss on a former crewmate and maybe friend, even if Shepard has no issues with it.

Whoa, this is very, very true.  And (obviously) not just for Liara, either -- Ash/Kaidan too.  Tali and Garrus must have known them *and* what was going on pretty well, and for neither to ask about this stuff is a big hole.  (Not just "what about the last person?", but "if Shep cheated/quickly dumped once, am I next?")

[flem1]

Unato wrote...

as for Shale in DA:O she was cut because her original model was the same as all other golems in game which was too large to walk through doors etc

Oh, that's hilarious, considering Shale's response when you ask about the size thing.

[AndroLeonidas]

Also... there was an entire month before the Collector attack where Liara was with Shepard on the Normandy. Does anyone believe they were not doing the hanky panky almost every night as new found lovers? The whole relationship aspect from ME1 just got tossed in my opinion.

[JPfanner]

Considering that you hear news reports referring to Shepard as the most famous human in the galaxy you would think that Shepard's love interest would be pretty well known, even if they weren't overt about it.

So I'm inclined to think that if the first human Spectre and the savior of the Citadel was "embracing eternity" that'd be pretty newsworthy. Even Cerberus doesn't bring up the relationship and you'd think that would be a sticking point with them being all pro-human.

It is almost like an episode of the Twilight Zone. No one in the entire galaxy talks about the relationship, not even the two people involved. The only evidence of a relationship you have is a kiss and a picture on the desk. All things considered, it would be more likely that the kiss never happened and the picture simply isn't there. That Shepard is delusional. That doesn't really seem like continuity and immersiveness to me. It's sad when Shepard being crazy makes more sense.

[flem1]

JPfanner wrote...

Considering that you hear news reports referring to Shepard as the most famous human in the galaxy

And yet a big Citadel crime boss doesn't recognize you even though every street urchin instantly does.

[JPfanner]

flem1 wrote...

JPfanner wrote...

Considering that you hear news reports referring to Shepard as the most famous human in the galaxy

And yet a big Citadel crime boss doesn't recognize you even though every street urchin instantly does.

Yeah, I have a lot of trouble reconciling being the most famous human in the galaxy and Shepard's ability to infiltrate mercenary gangs and the like.  It's like Shepard has some awesome "Selective Celebrity" power

[screwoffreg]

Considering how cramped the original Normandy seemed to be, I would imagine they would hear Shepard and Liara's...uh..."exertions". I think it is really lame that a lot of things about Shepard and his interaction with other characters are basically ignored. Your crew looks at you with interest sometimes as you interact, but they usually sort of stare without any real comment. C'mon Bioware, we KNOW you can do better! If you sucked we wouldn't expect anything more...but we know that you don't!!!

[Mox Ruuga]

Out of the last vestiges of Liara nostalgia, see what I dug up from the old forums and posted on the "dropped ball" thread:

http://social.bioware.com/[url=http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/974123/66#1404473

[Unato]

hmm not sure how to read the writer's comment, I liked the way Tali developed in ME2

there was certainly less about Quarians when talking to Tali this time round compared to ME1... is that what he's alluding to? true though there's alot to juggle with every character and maybe more so if the character is a LI

Modifié par Unato, 24 février 2010 - 09:10 .