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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI


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#10326
Yeled

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justinnstuff wrote...

Yeah, SB is most likely going to be an A.I. Too much info for an organic to stay on top of. If the SB isn't an AI, the SB may be a bunch of people working under the same name, like an organization.


Why can't the SB be a single person who sits at the top of an organization?  Its not like the SB needs to know every bit of information he collects.  He just needs to know the important stuff and have a network of associates who inform him as necessary while they buy and sell info, and who can get him relevant info as necessary.  Its not unreasonable to have one person handle the big, big deals while taking a cut of all the smaller stuff.  No one said the SB is omniscient.

#10327
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Yeled wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

Yeah, SB is most likely going to be an A.I. Too much info for an organic to stay on top of. If the SB isn't an AI, the SB may be a bunch of people working under the same name, like an organization.


Why can't the SB be a single person who sits at the top of an organization?  Its not like the SB needs to know every bit of information he collects.  He just needs to know the important stuff and have a network of associates who inform him as necessary while they buy and sell info, and who can get him relevant info as necessary.  Its not unreasonable to have one person handle the big, big deals while taking a cut of all the smaller stuff.  No one said the SB is omniscient.


For the reasons that Stubbs mentioned. I just don't see how their organization would last so long without someone betraying other people within the organization for more power. I could be wrong, I just think it would be cheesy.

#10328
Captain Iglo

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Hey guys :D

Is there anywhere (maybe here on Bioware forum) a place where I can find some good res Screens of Me Characters ... especialy Liara and Samara?

#10329
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Captain Iglo wrote...

Hey guys :D
Is there anywhere (maybe here on Bioware forum) a place where I can find some good res Screens of Me Characters ... especialy Liara and Samara?


Heyo!

You can usually find them in the fanclubs. Just click on the links below.

Liara T'Soni Fanclub
Samara's Love

Modifié par justinnstuff, 29 mars 2010 - 02:54 .


#10330
Unata

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SB is an Asari imho.

1. Simply put, they can get into peoples heads

2. Several throughout the galaxy have been shown to be ruthless

3. They've been around (Citadel) the longest.

#10331
jlb524

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Captain Iglo wrote...

Hey guys :D
Is there anywhere (maybe here on Bioware forum) a place where I can find some good res Screens of Me Characters ... especialy Liara and Samara?


I have tons of Liara screen shots (ME1 and ME2) In my photobucket album.

I also have some Samara screen shots.

#10332
Captain Iglo

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jlb524 wrote...

I have tons of Liara screen shots (ME1 and ME2) In my photobucket album.

I also have some Samara screen shots.



Cool! big thanks...looking forward to create some fanart...this will certainly help :)

#10333
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Captain Iglo wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I have tons of Liara screen shots (ME1 and ME2) In my photobucket album.

I also have some Samara screen shots.



Cool! big thanks...looking forward to create some fanart...this will certainly help :)


Very nice! Please post your creations in this thread, the Samara thread, or the fanclubs. We're really receptive to people's creativity. =]

#10334
jlb524

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Captain Iglo wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I have tons of Liara screen shots (ME1 and ME2) In my photobucket album.

I also have some Samara screen shots.



Cool! big thanks...looking forward to create some fanart...this will certainly help :)


Let me know if you need more Samara pics.  I can get more.  I'm playing ME1 atm so I'm sure I'll add some more ME1 Liara pics in the next few days.

#10335
Yeled

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justinnstuff wrote...

Yeled wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

Yeah, SB is most likely going to be an A.I. Too much info for an organic to stay on top of. If the SB isn't an AI, the SB may be a bunch of people working under the same name, like an organization.


Why can't the SB be a single person who sits at the top of an organization?  Its not like the SB needs to know every bit of information he collects.  He just needs to know the important stuff and have a network of associates who inform him as necessary while they buy and sell info, and who can get him relevant info as necessary.  Its not unreasonable to have one person handle the big, big deals while taking a cut of all the smaller stuff.  No one said the SB is omniscient.


For the reasons that Stubbs mentioned. I just don't see how their organization would last so long without someone betraying other people within the organization for more power. I could be wrong, I just think it would be cheesy.


See, I think the AI thing is cheesy.  Its already been done in a sequal to one of BW's games.  They also had that short mission in ME1 where you traced the signal from the slot machines to an AI.  In any event, I think Stubb's problems with it assume some facts we don't know.

First, we don't know that there aren't betrayels.  I'm sure agents of the SB betray each other all the time.  They are information brokers, afterall.  Spies and counterspies, double agents, etc.  The key is only that the actual SB keep himself safe at the top.  This can be accomplished by hiding as much personal information as possible from associates, which we already know he does.  If even his closest associates know almost nothing about him, its very hard for them to betray him in a way that takes him down.  Staying on top can also be accomplished through fear tactics.  If everyone who works for you thinks you can find anything out, and that you punish people who betray you, you basically have a lot of sway on your underlings.  They don't know what you know, and worry that you know more than you do or will find out later.  Its also possible that the SB has a lot of information on those who are closest to him and uses this as extra insurance.  He could let them know he knows some of their dirtier secrets and is willing to release that information should anyone betray him. 

Second, it assumes that the SB has always been one person, and that the person in that role hasn't changed over time.  Like the Dread Pirate Roberts, the Shadow Broker may always be a single individual who takes the title upon succession to the SB throne.  Its useful, because people fear the title and also know its a place they can go to buy and sell information.  We know that BW has already contemplated replacing the SB with someone else (Liara).  I doubt we'll ever learn about any other changes in the context of the story, but we don't know for a fact that the current SB is the original SB.

#10336
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Yeled wrote...
See, I think the AI thing is cheesy.  Its already been done in a sequal to one of BW's games.  They also had that short mission in ME1 where you traced the signal from the slot machines to an AI.  In any event, I think Stubb's problems with it assume some facts we don't know.

First, we don't know that there aren't betrayels.  I'm sure agents of the SB betray each other all the time.  They are information brokers, afterall.  Spies and counterspies, double agents, etc.  The key is only that the actual SB keep himself safe at the top.  This can be accomplished by hiding as much personal information as possible from associates, which we already know he does.  If even his closest associates know almost nothing about him, its very hard for them to betray him in a way that takes him down.  Staying on top can also be accomplished through fear tactics.  If everyone who works for you thinks you can find anything out, and that you punish people who betray you, you basically have a lot of sway on your underlings.  They don't know what you know, and worry that you know more than you do or will find out later.  Its also possible that the SB has a lot of information on those who are closest to him and uses this as extra insurance.  He could let them know he knows some of their dirtier secrets and is willing to release that information should anyone betray him. 

Second, it assumes that the SB has always been one person, and that the person in that role hasn't changed over time.  Like the Dread Pirate Roberts, the Shadow Broker may always be a single individual who takes the title upon succession to the SB throne.  Its useful, because people fear the title and also know its a place they can go to buy and sell information.  We know that BW has already contemplated replacing the SB with someone else (Liara).  I doubt we'll ever learn about any other changes in the context of the story, but we don't know for a fact that the current SB is the original SB.


I see your point that we don't know the fact that the original SB is still the current one. That would fit in my theory that he may and will get betrayed. Organizations like that don' t have a "safe zone". They never will. If the SB is a single entity, it's gotta be an organization. There's no way 1 person can do all of that on their own. Good ideas.

#10337
Captain Iglo

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justinnstuff wrote...

Very nice! Please post your creations in this thread, the Samara thread, or the fanclubs. We're really receptive to people's creativity. =]


Sure thing :)

#10338
Unata

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jlb524 wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I have tons of Liara screen shots (ME1 and ME2) In my photobucket album.

I also have some Samara screen shots.



Cool! big thanks...looking forward to create some fanart...this will certainly help :)


Let me know if you need more Samara pics.  I can get more.  I'm playing ME1 atm so I'm sure I'll add some more ME1 Liara pics in the next few days.


OMG, jlb524! I love this shot!
Image IPB

Did you make it? it's awesome, that is so how I felt at the end of ME2

#10339
jlb524

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Unata wrote...

OMG, jlb524! I love this shot!

Did you make it? it's awesome, that is so how I felt at the end of ME2


Yeah, that's a photoshop job.

#10340
Guest_General Stubbs_*

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Yeled wrote...
See, I think the AI thing is cheesy.  Its already been done in a sequal to one of BW's games.  They also had that short mission in ME1 where you traced the signal from the slot machines to an AI.  In any event, I think Stubb's problems with it assume some facts we don't know.

First, we don't know that there aren't betrayels.  I'm sure agents of the SB betray each other all the time.  They are information brokers, afterall.  Spies and counterspies, double agents, etc.  The key is only that the actual SB keep himself safe at the top.  This can be accomplished by hiding as much personal information as possible from associates, which we already know he does.  If even his closest associates know almost nothing about him, its very hard for them to betray him in a way that takes him down.  Staying on top can also be accomplished through fear tactics.  If everyone who works for you thinks you can find anything out, and that you punish people who betray you, you basically have a lot of sway on your underlings.  They don't know what you know, and worry that you know more than you do or will find out later.  Its also possible that the SB has a lot of information on those who are closest to him and uses this as extra insurance.  He could let them know he knows some of their dirtier secrets and is willing to release that information should anyone betray him. 

Second, it assumes that the SB has always been one person, and that the person in that role hasn't changed over time.  Like the Dread Pirate Roberts, the Shadow Broker may always be a single individual who takes the title upon succession to the SB throne.  Its useful, because people fear the title and also know its a place they can go to buy and sell information.  We know that BW has already contemplated replacing the SB with someone else (Liara).  I doubt we'll ever learn about any other changes in the context of the story, but we don't know for a fact that the current SB is the original SB.

But take it into account that the amount of information he would go through in one day would be impossible unless he had five to ten thousand people working for him in an office building and they were all able to immediately communicate with each other.
Even if the SB somehow managed to make that happen, the amount of people who would constantly be plotting to replace him would be numerous as well as the potential of law enforcment infiltrating his organization.
If the SB was an organic, he would have to allow people inside of his inner circle to help him with the organization, no one man could run something like that alone, that is why the President has an administration, how would that inner circle get along for thousands of years without one slip-up?

The thing is, the more people you involve in a criminal empire, the sooner you will be taken down, mobsters get taken down all the time.
Even dictators in thrid-world countires get taken down by military coups all the time and they rely in fear to stay in power, sooner or later somone will take you down if you rely on fear.

There would be almost an impossible amount of variables and options for the SB to consider at any one time, he basically runs the criminals of the galaxy all be himself.
Think about it, that is multi-tasking to the utmost extreme.

Modifié par General Stubbs, 29 mars 2010 - 03:23 .


#10341
Captain Iglo

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jlb524 wrote...

I have tons of Liara screen shots (ME1 and ME2) In my photobucket album.

I also have some Samara screen shots.


Hmm did Liara lost some color in this 2 years?
didnt notice first...

#10342
Unata

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General Stubbs wrote...

Yeled wrote...
See, I think the AI thing is cheesy.  Its already been done in a sequal to one of BW's games.  They also had that short mission in ME1 where you traced the signal from the slot machines to an AI.  In any event, I think Stubb's problems with it assume some facts we don't know.

First, we don't know that there aren't betrayels.  I'm sure agents of the SB betray each other all the time.  They are information brokers, afterall.  Spies and counterspies, double agents, etc.  The key is only that the actual SB keep himself safe at the top.  This can be accomplished by hiding as much personal information as possible from associates, which we already know he does.  If even his closest associates know almost nothing about him, its very hard for them to betray him in a way that takes him down.  Staying on top can also be accomplished through fear tactics.  If everyone who works for you thinks you can find anything out, and that you punish people who betray you, you basically have a lot of sway on your underlings.  They don't know what you know, and worry that you know more than you do or will find out later.  Its also possible that the SB has a lot of information on those who are closest to him and uses this as extra insurance.  He could let them know he knows some of their dirtier secrets and is willing to release that information should anyone betray him. 

Second, it assumes that the SB has always been one person, and that the person in that role hasn't changed over time.  Like the Dread Pirate Roberts, the Shadow Broker may always be a single individual who takes the title upon succession to the SB throne.  Its useful, because people fear the title and also know its a place they can go to buy and sell information.  We know that BW has already contemplated replacing the SB with someone else (Liara).  I doubt we'll ever learn about any other changes in the context of the story, but we don't know for a fact that the current SB is the original SB.

But take it into account that the amount of information he would go through in one day would be impossible unless he had five to ten thousand people working for him in an office building and they were all able to immediately communicate with each other.
Even if the SB somehow managed to make that happen, the amount of people who would constantly be plotting to replace him would be numerous as well as the potential of law enforcment infiltrating his organization.
If the SB was an organic, he would have to allow people inside of his inner circle to help him with the organization, no one man could run something like that alone, that is why the President has an administration, how would that inner circle get along for thousands of years without one slip-up?

The thing is, the more people you involve in a criminal empire, the sooner you will be taken down, mobsters get taken down all the time.
Even dictators in thrid-world countires get taken down by military coups all the time and they rely in fear to stay in power, sooner or later somone will take you down if you rely on fear.

There would be almost an impossible amount of variables and options for the SB to consider at any one time, he basically runs the criminals of the galaxy all be himself.
Think about it, that is multi-taking to the utmost extreme.


It wouldn't be to difficult for one person to collate information with the advance computers they have in ME1 or ME2.
I can see one person in an office like place with several terminals and a VI system in place.

SB is an Information Broker, not necessarly a criminal, Anderson even implies they use her/him.

#10343
jlb524

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Captain Iglo wrote...

Hmm did Liara lost some color in this 2 years?
didnt notice first...


It's just the lighting in her office that is making her look grayish now.

#10344
Unata

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jlb524 wrote...

Unata wrote...

OMG, jlb524! I love this shot!

Did you make it? it's awesome, that is so how I felt at the end of ME2


Yeah, that's a photoshop job.


Excellent job, couldn't stand cuddling with anyone else, just got Kelly to feed my fish, I was crushed when some died

#10345
jlb524

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Unata wrote...

Excellent job, couldn't stand cuddling with anyone else, just got Kelly to feed my fish, I was crushed when some died


I got the Kelly 'cuddle' scene on my crappy first ME2 playthrough that I always throw away anyways.  It was worth it just to make this pic. :P

I don't rely on her to feed the fish anymore since some died after she agreed to feed them  :blink:
I feed them myself.

#10346
Noxis6

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Unata wrote...
It wouldn't be to difficult for one person to collate information with the advance computers they have in ME1 or ME2.
I can see one person in an office like place with several terminals and a VI system in place.

SB is an Information Broker, not necessarly a criminal, Anderson even implies they use her/him.


An information broker is a criminal,its not like the SB sells newspapers,the information he sells is quite more significant,basicly you could charge him for dealing with insider knowledge or treason,also he is quick to kill people that mess with him.

As for the implication from Anderson of course they use him,because of the amounts of info he sells,hes basicly a parasite thats too convinient to remove

#10347
Guest_General Stubbs_*

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Unata wrote...
It wouldn't be to difficult for one person to collate information with the advance computers they have in ME1 or ME2.
I can see one person in an office like place with several terminals and a VI system in place.

SB is an Information Broker, not necessarly a criminal, Anderson even implies they use her/him.

It is just the multi-tasking part of it which would be impossible for any being to keep track of, it would be like us trying to keep track of everything a computer does second. But, there would be much, much more information that in the galaxy.

Remember when the SB tried to kill Fist (which he did if you brought Wrex) and he has tried to kill Liara?
Even though he his an information broker, he still has to get people taken out who cross him, that is definitely illegal.

#10348
Yeled

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General Stubbs wrote...

But take it into account that the amount of information he would go through in one day would be impossible unless he had five to ten thousand people working for him in an office building and they were all able to immediately communicate with each other.


Why?  He doesn't need to know everything that happens everywhere.  He doesn't need to be omniscient.  He needs to know the most important information that has the highest value, and honestly everything else is irrelevant.  I can tell you that in a business like this 90 percent of your revenue is going to come from 5 percent of your transactions.  It takes a ton of little microtransactions worth a few thousand credits to equal one that's worth 10,000,000 credits.  So what do you think the SB concentrates on?

See, in order to run an operation like this you don't need to know everything.  You simply need a system that ensures you get your hands on the most vital and valuable information.  And since everyone in the galaxy knows you pay a lot of money for information like this, and do so discretely, everyone in the galaxy is going to look for a way to sell you the most valuable information.  The whole system is based on reputation and a network of spies who can move information up the ladder. 

As far as the quantity of information goes, its mostly irrelevant.   Its really a self-sifting process.  Someone is always trying to sell information to someone closer to you, who sells it to someone closer to you, who sells it to someone closer to you, until it finally reaches you.  At some point someone in your network isn't going to pay for information they don't think they can sell to someone higher up the ladder.  And thus you never get that information.  Does that mean you miss something important?  Sometimes.  But mostly you get it right.  And of course you have spies and such actively searching for particular info at the same time.

You could easily be the most powerful information broker in the galaxy, with access to all the right contacts and a vast network of spies, without needing to know every little bit of information available.  If its not worth enough to you, you don't care.

#10349
Guest_General Stubbs_*

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jlb524 wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...

Hmm did Liara lost some color in this 2 years?
didnt notice first...


It's just the lighting in her office that is making her look grayish now.

But it is oh so heartbreaking to see The Beautiful Blue Goddess grey.
Even if a fraction of it was done purposely by BioWare or they didn't try and fix the lighting for symbolic reasons, it has a great emotional impact to us when Liara is without her beautiful blue.

#10350
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General Stubbs wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Captain Iglo wrote...

Hmm did Liara lost some color in this 2 years?
didnt notice first...


It's just the lighting in her office that is making her look grayish now.

But it is oh so heartbreaking to see The Beautiful Blue Goddess grey.
Even if a fraction of it was done purposely by BioWare or they didn't try and fix the lighting for symbolic reasons, it has a great emotional impact to us when Liara is without her beautiful blue.


I can almost guarantee it was symbolic. That's something that's harder and harder to find in stories these days.