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Support Liara T'Soni for ME3 - Squadmate and LI


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#10376
Derumiel

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Unata wrote...

General Stubbs wrote...

Derumiel wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...
Hey guys, so sad countdown wasnt Liara dlc.


Yes, but we knew it'd have nothing to do with the games, so...
but an "epic communitiy event" just in the US? What about the community in other countries... I'd call that epic fail :crying:

What is even more hilarious is that we Canadians can't even join and BioWare is in freaking Edmonton.


What a hoot, Epic Fail BW! makes me worry about any DLC for anything of importance.


Ok, i have to reconsider my statement. Its an extremly epic fail.

#10377
Unata

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Oh Kay guys, I don't know about you but I have a couple burning questions about Liara I'd like BW to answer, not about the game happenings but personal questions.



1. Where/why/What about the Eyebrows, why are Liara and her mother the only 2 in all ME galaxy we've seen to have them.



2. Where did she get them adorable freckles, Mom doesn't have them, not seen them on any other Asari either



3. Who's her "father"

#10378
Unata

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New Page!

Image IPB

#10379
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Unata wrote...

New Page!
Image IPB

I like this one.:wub::wub::wub:

Well That makes me want to continue my ME1 run, as I am about to go to Therum.

Im off to see Liara now.:wub:

Modifié par Somebody1003, 29 mars 2010 - 04:54 .


#10380
FiveThreeTen

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Unata wrote...

Oh Kay guys, I don't know about you but I have a couple burning questions about Liara I'd like BW to answer, not about the game happenings but personal questions.

1. Where/why/What about the Eyebrows, why are Liara and her mother the only 2 in all ME galaxy we've seen to have them.


IMO, there are two possibilities : it's either cultural or natural .

If it's natural, then some Asari may develop eyebrows without necesseraly having hair :
Some whales apparently do :
"Another interesting fact: Southern Right Whales have hair in many of the
same places humans do, like eyebrows[/b] above their eyes."


Source : http://gogreentravel...ldes-in-photos/

Modifié par FiveThreeTen, 29 mars 2010 - 04:59 .


#10381
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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

hey guys. internet broken, am posting from phone. may take few days to fix. im missing liara!


Doh that sucks dude! Hope it's fixed soon.

#10382
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IndigoWolfe wrote...

I watched the countdown tick down to zero.

There certainly wasn't a reveal of Liara DLC. But until there is, I guess I can just look at these pictures and pretend there was.

*snip

*snip


Haha, nice job on the photoshop =]

#10383
Derumiel

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LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

hey guys. internet broken, am posting from phone. may take few days to fix. im missing liara!


Oh, thats bad. Hope you get it fixed soon.

Edit: Damn, justin was faster. <_<

:lol:

Modifié par Derumiel, 29 mars 2010 - 05:04 .


#10384
Guest_General Stubbs_*

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justinnstuff wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

hey guys. internet broken, am posting from phone. may take few days to fix. im missing liara!


Doh that sucks dude! Hope it's fixed soon.

Yeah, I hope you get it back up and running soon.
Liara will miss you for the next few days.

#10385
Yeled

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General Stubbs wrote...

But that is the whole point of the SB, he knows everything and is involved in everything in the galaxy, he would not be good at his job unless he could remember every little bit of information that he goes through.
You have to care about every little bit of information that goes through in that business, you could never trust someone else with giving you the right information so you would have to look through everything yourself.
If the SB trusted anyone else with anything he would already be dead.
But if you missed any bit of information, that would mean profit lost and people wouldn't consider you very professional, but the SB seems to always have the information people need.

But an A.I. makes sense for all of these things, it could be at the very top of the empire, it wouldn't have to have an inner circle of trusted associates because it would be able to do everything by itself.
It would be one screw up and your whole empires goes down, only an A.I. could run it that perfectly for so long.
The SB has been around for as long as people can remember, right?

I am not trying to argue with you the SB could only ever be an A.I. but I just think it makes more sense for the career he is in.
A.I. = massive intelligence which = never getting screwed over because you don't have to rely on underlings.


I guess I just don't agree with your basic assumptions.  The Shadow Broker doesn't know everything and doesn't need to.  That would be a huge waste of resources and wouldn't do the job as well as the model I outlined above.

You don't need to know everything, you just need to be well connected and be the person willing to pay the most money for the best information.  Those two basic qualities mean that most good information will trickle up to you.  You don't need to collect a gazillion bits of data and then sift through it, looking at trends and putting everything together like a market researcher.  That's a waste of your valuable time that you could be spending worrying about the stuff that's relevant to the big institutions and governments who can pay you the big bucks for information or to keep you quiet.

Think of it this way:  I work in fundraising for a university.  I hear people say to me all the time that if we could just get all our alumni giving $10, we'd have a fortune.  Well let's think about that.  80,000 alumni x $10 each = $800,000.  That's nice but its not a fortune.  Plus, its impossible to get all alumni to do that, because you'd need vast resources to reach everyone and create in them the emotional resonance that would cause them to give even $10.  And even then you wouldn't get them all.  You'd be lucky to get half.

I would suggest that I don't worry about the $10 donor beyond a simple thank you letter because I can spend a lot less time and resources simply cultivating a couple alumni who are worth millions and raise more money with those few donors than I would get dealing with all the small gifts.

The same holds true for the SB.  He doesn't care about any information that isn't worth a lot of money.  He's big time.  He doesn't need to know everything.  He can't know everything anyway.  He's better off concentrating on the most valuable information and ignoring the rest.

And doing that isn't any more dangerous.  We already know he buys and sells information from smaller information brokers who know very little about him.  That model works just fine.  He has more resources than everyone else, can pay more, and probably goes after those who try to work around him.

#10386
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Freckles can be the result of sun-exposure. Maybe Liara's work on archaeological sites had her working at very sunny locations.

I don't think Matriarch Benezia's eyebrows or Liara's eyebrows are actually hair. Hair is a mostly-human characteristic in the ME setting. Maybe Matriarch Benezia thought human eyebrows are beautiful, and applied makeup to herself, and Liara followed suit.

We don't know who Liara's "father" is.

Modifié par yorkj86, 29 mars 2010 - 05:13 .


#10387
Unata

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yorkj86 wrote...

Freckles can be the result of sun-exposure. Maybe Liara's work on archaeological sites had her working at very sunny locations.

I don't think Matriarch Benezia's eyebrows or Liara's eyebrows are actually hair. Hair is a mostly-human characteristic in the ME setting. Maybe Matriarch Benezia thought human eyebrows are beautiful, and applied makeup to herself, and Liara followed suit.

We don't know who Liara's "father" is.


Yes, I know, I just wanted to list the questions I want BW to answer at some point in the storyline(not that they will), these things eat at me hehe

#10388
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yorkj86 wrote...

Freckles can be the result of sun-exposure. Maybe Liara's work on archaeological sites had her working at very sunny locations.

I don't think Matriarch Benezia's eyebrows or Liara's eyebrows are actually hair. Hair is a mostly-human characteristic in the ME setting. Maybe Matriarch Benezia thought human eyebrows are beautiful, and applied makeup to herself, and Liara followed suit.

We don't know who Liara's "father" is.


Yeah I don't think the eyebrows are real for Asari. I think they're like you said, a fashion statement. I'm so used to Liara having eyebrows she'd look strange without them.

#10389
Yeled

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yorkj86 wrote...

Freckles can be the result of sun-exposure. Maybe Liara's work on archaeological sites had her working at very sunny locations.

I don't think Matriarch Benezia's eyebrows or Liara's eyebrows are actually hair. Hair is a mostly-human characteristic in the ME setting. Maybe Matriarch Benezia thought human eyebrows are beautiful, and applied makeup to herself, and Liara followed suit.

We don't know who Liara's "father" is.


Speaking of hair and eyebrows...I soooooooooooooooooooooooooo want to see Crimm's comic about Liara and Shep's hair.  Are you still working on that, Crimm?  Are you going to use "You can touch mine if I can touch yours"?

#10390
JPfanner

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I have pretty much the same conception of the Shadow Broker as Yeled. The Shadow Broker isn't Darth Vader, and he isn't the head of some huge galactic wide criminal syndicate that controls criminal activities. He deals in information and probably doesn't really do much personally because he doesn't need to. There is a whole pyramid scheme of underlings below him and only the largest and most critical of information/situations would ever filter their way up to him.

He only has one enforcer, hires the Blue Suns to recover the body, hires Wrex to kill Fist. Local groups control the actual criminal activities in places, the Shadow Broker simply sells information. Most of the people that are part of his network do it in on either a case by case basis or a part-time basis. They have normal jobs and just happen to know someone that pays money for information. Then that information makes it up the pyramid as far as the value of the information merits it moving up.


#10391
JPfanner

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justinnstuff wrote...
Yeah I don't think the eyebrows are real for Asari. I think they're like you said, a fashion statement. I'm so used to Liara having eyebrows she'd look strange without them.

Yep, I'm pretty sure they were just added to Liara and Benezia to make them seem more expressive in an understandable context.  So I've always assumed that they're just tattoos.  The way that asari NPC's are rendered now, they can't have eyebrows unless they used Liara's face texture.
The freckles are that way too.  Only Liara and Samara have them because those freckles are on their individual face texture maps.  All other "generic" asari share the same face texture which doesn't have freckles (or eyebrows) and then the game individually colors the face and applies the facial/scalp patterns to them.  There isn't a freckle or eyebrow pattern to apply to asari faces.
You can see the differences in that picture I put up of the generic asari face, Liara's face, and Samara's face.

#10392
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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Here's a small thing i've been wondering about.

How will Liara and Shep's relation develop if shep romanced Liara (and didn't pick any new LI) but hated her for giving him to Cerbures? (basicly the "so am I" dialog option)

Personally i think she will be completly obsessed with killing the shadow broker, probely because she can''t find any other way to redeem herself for her "selfish" actions.

Anyway, what do you think?

#10393
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JPfanner wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...
Yeah I don't think the eyebrows are real for Asari. I think they're like you said, a fashion statement. I'm so used to Liara having eyebrows she'd look strange without them.

Yep, I'm pretty sure they were just added to Liara and Benezia to make them seem more expressive in an understandable context.  So I've always assumed that they're just tattoos.  The way that asari NPC's are rendered now, they can't have eyebrows unless they used Liara's face texture.
The freckles are that way too.  Only Liara and Samara have them because those freckles are on their individual face texture maps.  All other "generic" asari share the same face texture which doesn't have freckles (or eyebrows) and then the game individually colors the face and applies the facial/scalp patterns to them.  There isn't a freckle or eyebrow pattern to apply to asari faces.
You can see the differences in that picture I put up of the generic asari face, Liara's face, and Samara's face.


Interesting. I wish I had the PC version to check out all of this stuff. So Liara's and Benezia's face models are unique.

#10394
FiveThreeTen

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yorkj86 wrote...

Freckles can be the result of sun-exposure. Maybe Liara's work on archaeological sites had her working at very sunny locations.

I don't think Matriarch Benezia's eyebrows or Liara's eyebrows are actually hair. Hair is a mostly-human characteristic in the ME setting. Maybe Matriarch Benezia thought human eyebrows are beautiful, and applied makeup to herself, and Liara followed suit.

We don't know who Liara's "father" is.


Just want to add that so far, every Asari I saw ingame had at least eyelashes .
And I don't think they are fake or makeup .

#10395
JPfanner

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justinnstuff wrote...
Interesting. I wish I had the PC version to check out all of this stuff. So Liara's and Benezia's face models are unique.

I'd assume they are in ME1.  I only checked out the ME2 textures so I'm not going to pretend like I know for certain with Benezia in ME1.  But in ME2; Liara has her own personal high-res face texture, Samara/Morinth have their own personal high-res face texture, and then there is a low-res generic asari face for the other asari.
I know for certain that Matriarch Aethyta and the asari around Illium all share that same generic face texture, even though each of them individually looks much different.  There are overlays that are applied to their faces for the facial tattoos/markings and the scalp patterns and then they are colored individually.  Those asari NPC's are mass produced by making cosmetic changes to the same facial texture.

#10396
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Yeled wrote...
I guess I just don't agree with your basic assumptions.  The Shadow Broker doesn't know everything and doesn't need to.  That would be a huge waste of resources and wouldn't do the job as well as the model I outlined above.

You don't need to know everything, you just need to be well connected and be the person willing to pay the most money for the best information.  Those two basic qualities mean that most good information will trickle up to you.  You don't need to collect a gazillion bits of data and then sift through it, looking at trends and putting everything together like a market researcher.  That's a waste of your valuable time that you could be spending worrying about the stuff that's relevant to the big institutions and governments who can pay you the big bucks for information or to keep you quiet.

Think of it this way:  I work in fundraising for a university.  I hear people say to me all the time that if we could just get all our alumni giving $10, we'd have a fortune.  Well let's think about that.  80,000 alumni x $10 each = $800,000.  That's nice but its not a fortune.  Plus, its impossible to get all alumni to do that, because you'd need vast resources to reach everyone and create in them the emotional resonance that would cause them to give even $10.  And even then you wouldn't get them all.  You'd be lucky to get half.

I would suggest that I don't worry about the $10 donor beyond a simple thank you letter because I can spend a lot less time and resources simply cultivating a couple alumni who are worth millions and raise more money with those few donors than I would get dealing with all the small gifts.

The same holds true for the SB.  He doesn't care about any information that isn't worth a lot of money.  He's big time.  He doesn't need to know everything.  He can't know everything anyway.  He's better off concentrating on the most valuable information and ignoring the rest.

And doing that isn't any more dangerous.  We already know he buys and sells information from smaller information brokers who know very little about him.  That model works just fine.  He has more resources than everyone else, can pay more, and probably goes after those who try to work around him.

It is the actual size of his empire though, he is not just a mobster from Russia or anything like that.
He knows more than the Council does at any point and time, Governments probably come to him for information, once you get to that point, everyone is gunning for you.

He just can't ignore any information, you see gangsters get taken down all the time because they trusted someone a bit too much with their jobs. The SB has been around for at least thousands of years, I believe it is the same being, in that time period, all it would take is for one guy who took over from the SB to destroy his entire empire.
Look at Eaton's, that was the biggest and oldest department store in Canada and all it took was for two people to completely put it in financial ruin. The SB runs all the info in the galaxy and has been around forever, if he was someone being replaced every so often, how would they all be exactly as good as the previous SB?
It would be impossible for that many beings to be that consistant for so long.

I am trying to say, he is not some thug or gangster from this day and age, the extent of his Empire is enormous.
He cannot afford any screw-ups or rely on anyone else to help him, if he only thought about just a couple of big pieces of information, he would have been dead long ago. Someone, somewhere would have screwed him over and taken him out if the SB was careless enough to trust people to sort through the info for him.
The problem with market researchers is that there is always a big risk something bad will suddenly happen, in the time the SB has been around for (probably several hundred to a thousand years), if he relied on trends, something would have gone wrong and his empire would have crumbled.

For an empire of that magnitude, you need to be completely perfect, or else you will be destroyed. It is impossible to be perfect, so that is why I think A.I. would make sense.
Not that you couldn't be right, but it just technically makes more sense to have an extremely advanced A.I. from a long forgotten age running the show as it would never get tired, never rest, and would invariably be perfect.
The impossible consistancy of the SB makes me think it is an A.I as well.

#10397
Yeled

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@ Stubbs: Why do you think his empire is so huge and fragile? Also, I don't think he's a mobster. That's not the right model. I think he's he's just someone with a vast network of contacts and spies. He just exhanges information for credits, buying info that he thinks he can sell to someone else. Its really not that complex, and doesn't require an empire or operation on the scale you're describing.

#10398
JPfanner

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FiveThreeTen wrote...
Just want to add that so far, every Asari I saw ingame had at least eyelashes .
And I don't think they are fake or makeup .

Yep, asari definitely have those eyelashes which I haven't seen on any other race besides humans.  They could even have light body hair and we'd never know without being specifically told.
I mean from the game, you'd think humans had a lot less hair than we do.  Female humans are hairless except for the head, eyebrows, and eyelashes.

#10399
Yeled

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JPfanner wrote...

Female humans are hairless except for the head, eyebrows, and eyelashes.


Whoah!  The PC version must be waaaay more revealing than I thought.  I have the xbox version so I can't confirm your claim!  

Image IPB Image IPB

#10400
scmadsen

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I think I can explain how Shepard reacts to Liara. I was thinking about it a little more, and it just hit me. Let me know if you think it fits. Now, before you say, we should know everything Shepard knows, and should be able to do/act whatever/however we want. Think about it, we can't really. There has to be some controls over the game. Some things we just can't do. I could list cases of these and reasons as to why, but that's not the point here. This is just the sad case of one, that really stands out. Thus our being upset over the whole thing.

So much attention was placed on Liara, that we forgot about Shepard. I think that's kind of natural because we are Shepard. We tend to think of our actions in the context that we are making the choices and have the control. The game however, expects us to understand what's going on, and for our actions to be based from this. If you don't fully understand what is happening, then you can miss the reason for what's happening and why, and your actions can seem out of place. Shepard might be us, but Shepard is still Shepard, in that, there is something that makes Shepard the person they are. The way things are said, some actions picked for us, as in not allowing us to make weird and abnormal choices. To try and understand, we have to accept that sometimes we can't do what we want, because it's not a choice, there is only one path. We don't always like the path, but that is what is laid out for us. The goes beyond the simple, as in, Liara can't come with us, because Liara can't come with us, because the game won't allow it, because she needs to be alive for everyone.

Ok, I'm rambling a bit, but I hope you all understand what I was trying to say there. Now, back to why Shepard reacts to Liara in the reunion. If we think about Liara:

She had just lost her mother to the Reapers, and likely was with Shepard when killing her.

She was forced to leave Shepard on the Normandy, by Shepard.

She was forced to watch Shepard die, unable to do anything about it.

She was forced to go out on her own to find Shepard's body, to lay her loved one to a proper rest, because no one else would.

While doing so, she was forced to take that body from the Shadow Broker, because he was going to sell it to the Collectors. 

While getting Shepard back, we are told she nearly dies herself, and was forced to leave the only person willing to help her get Shepard back, behind to be killed or worse.

She has Shepard back but she isn't given the peace she was after for her and Shepard, instead she is forced to make a deal with TIM, to allow Shepard to be rebuilt. She can't let go, so she turns Shepard over and allows it all to happen, knowing full well the kind of evil things this group has done in the past.

She sits in her office for two years, worried everyday what will become of Shepard. What will TIM do to Shepard, will Shepard hate her now. These and many more questions go thru her mind for all that time.

She is forced to become a person that isn't her, while she might enjoy the work itself, as it reminds her of the old days, she is being a person she doesn't like. Anyone that truthfully knows Liara, knows this isn't her.

There is also the unknown reason for which Liara is forced to once again, let Shepard go. Unable to run off to the Normandy and leave everything behind, to find comfort in the arms of her loved one. Is it fear, for what Shepard might now be, is it fear of being hated and unforgiven, is it some deal we don't know about. Whatever it is, it must weigh heavily on Liara, to keep her from the only thing that has kept her going for two years, the one she loves.

Now, Shepard isn't stupid, and while we might not pick up all this, Shepard can from talking with, and watching Liara, in her office. Remember, Shepard fully understand Liara, they are connected with a bond that goes far beyond, even a lifetime of living together. They both fully understand each other, and I like to think, share a connection, that allows them to even feel what the other does. Liara says the bond transcends time and space. So think about this from Shepard's point of view.

What do you say to Liara, when she tells you she couldn't let you go. Here is the important part. Shepard did let Liara go. Shepard told Liara to leave the Normandy, and Shepard stayed behind, to play hero and save Joker. This is all Shepard's fault. And Shepard has had ever since waking up and till getting to Illium to think about this fact.

Upon seeing what this has done to Liara, and everything she had to go thru, because you had to play hero and save a fool. It becomes perfectly understandable that Shepard is a bit stunned and at a loss for words. Kind of out of character for Shepard to be at a loss for words. But if Liara is your LI, then you understand it would be cruel to tell Liara, you couldn't let her go either, because you already did, and Liara would have every right to yell at you for saying that to her. If you aren't her LI, then perhaps you fall for her at that very moment, and what do you say to her, after she just opened her heart to you.

Shepard has to feel all the guilt and pain, and sadness that Liara does now. It is Shepard's fault Liara went thru so much. Every bit of it. Shepard is stunned at the love Liara has, and then in that same moment, feels horrible for not going with Liara back on the Normandy. Shepard was a fool to save Joker and put Liara thru all this. Would it be fair to put Liara thru it a second time.

Anything affectionate at this moment, would be cruel, because no matter what, Shepard is getting up out of that chair, getting back on the Normandy, and running off to play hero again. We can't stop it. It's just who Shepard is. And it's very likely, that Shepard isn't coming back. You want to tell Liara you love her, then leave her again, and go off to die, all because you can't drop everything and be with her.

I think, while we might not like it, Shepard knows best, and doesn't have the big reunion we all want, because of what must happen next, Shepard has to leave Liara alone again, and maybe die yet again. To let her go, when she couldn't let you go. How terrible this must make Shepard feel. It's only fair to walk out that door like Shepard does.

This puts the picture scene into better context, as it shows Shepard thinking about Liara, and this is why Shepard must not fail, not for the mission, not for the preservation of self, but for Liara. Shepard has something to come back to, and a reason to live, because Liara is waiting and needs that reunion she was denied.

This is the troubled second act. Love is cast aside, for the mission. It's sad, it's painful, and it's not fair. The galaxy will burn, as will the one Shepard loves, if they fail. The many years it might take for the Reapers to return, it might not effect most people, but Liara will live long enough, they are coming and that's why Shepard must do this.