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[scmadsen]

I heard the Tali fans are crazy and weird.

[JPfanner]

General Stubbs wrote...
Well, we need to at least slap Joker across the face at some point, I am pretty sure Liara would approve of that little punishment.
She might not approve of my squadmate sacrificing, but I could never lose The Beautiful Blue Goddess! She means so much to me.

People that have an ME1 LI that isn't Liara already made one of those decisions kind of like that.  No matter what the actual situation, everyone is going to be wondering at some level if Shepard didn't make that choice on Virmire based on who they had a relationship with.
Shepard has to make decisions like which half of a colony gets nuked.  I'm pretty sure my Shepard could handle any guilt associated with other people dying instead of Liara.

[scmadsen]

JPfanner wrote...

General Stubbs wrote...
Well, we need to at least slap Joker across the face at some point, I am pretty sure Liara would approve of that little punishment.
She might not approve of my squadmate sacrificing, but I could never lose The Beautiful Blue Goddess! She means so much to me.

People that have an ME1 LI that isn't Liara already made one of those decisions kind of like that.  No matter what the actual situation, everyone is going to be wondering at some level if Shepard didn't make that choice on Virmire based on who they had a relationship with.
Shepard has to make decisions like which half of a colony gets nuked.  I'm pretty sure my Shepard could handle any guilt associated with other people dying instead of Liara.

Call it evil if you will, but I'd rather be selfish and save Liara, or Shepard if it meant Liara not having to go thru pain and suffer..then save anyone else. I would of been willing to even put the Collector mission on hold, for Liara, and help her get over everything, side track to kill the Shadow Broker too.

[JaylaClark]

General Stubbs wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
Okay, I'll just *sigh* and go "Oh, Stubbs..." and leave it at that.  (Probably JP as well.)  With one last bit -- do you really think Liara would appreciate that?  Hmm? *crosses arms and gives knowing look*  She's not that hardened in ME2...

Well, we need to at least slap Joker across the face at some point, I am pretty sure Liara would approve of that little punishment.
She might not approve of my squadmate sacrificing, but I could never lose The Beautiful Blue Goddess! She means so much to me.

True -- of course Shepard leaves Liara to put everyone in the escape pods because she's probably damn sure she can save Joker and herself.  That's another reason why 'screw Joker' probably doesn't occur to most Shepards.

So.  Not putting Joker over Liara, just making sure Liara gets everyone else off and sure I'll see her again, is my reasoning.

And yes, I approve of a slap , though I'd prefer it to be LiLi doing it.  Hmm, if she comes aboard the Normandy that might be a nice add to the DLC?

[UFOash]

GamerFSS86 wrote...

GamerFSS86 wrote...

everybody don't provoke the tali-mancers they will leave soo.........HERE we are unbreakable, we love LIARA!!!

bump----------every body be stong against the tali FANS!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed...fight them!

[bjdbwea]

Let's not start a discussion about other characters or their fans here. Everybody should just stay in the threads where they have positive things to say, and leave everyone else and their opinions alone. Surely that's not hard to do.

[mrbeavis19]

UFOash wrote...

runescapeguy9 wrote...

Hello. Just dropping by to say hello from the Tali thread.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[JaylaClark]

bjdbwea wrote...

Let's not start a discussion about other characters or their fans here. Everybody should just stay in the threads where they have positive things to say, and leave everyone else and their opinions alone. Surely that's not hard to do.

You'd hope, right?  This is coming from a fan of Tali, though not a Talimancer, myself.  We need a positive thread for everyone who gets along, though good luck keeping trolls out of THAT *sighs*...

[JPfanner]

scmadsen wrote...
Call it evil if you will, but I'd rather be selfish and save Liara, or Shepard if it meant Liara not having to go thru pain and suffer..then save anyone else. I would of been willing to even put the Collector mission on hold, for Liara, and help her get over everything, side track to kill the Shadow Broker too.

I feel the same way.  My main Shepard is Earthborn.  Liara is the only person she's ever had.  Even for my other Shepard's though, they don't really have anything of their own except for Liara.  Everything else is all about the Council, the Alliance, galactic civilzation in general, or the psychological needs of the crew.  Shepard needs something for themselves.
It's like when Mordin talks about his nephew.  That stopping the Collectors and the Reapers is important, but saving the galaxy is kind of a meaningless context unless you can personalize it.  My Shepard is fighting the Reapers for Liara, and for a future with Liara.  Without that she'd just have no point of reference for doing anything.

[scmadsen]

JaylaClark wrote...

General Stubbs wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
Okay, I'll just *sigh* and go "Oh, Stubbs..." and leave it at that.  (Probably JP as well.)  With one last bit -- do you really think Liara would appreciate that?  Hmm? *crosses arms and gives knowing look*  She's not that hardened in ME2...

Well, we need to at least slap Joker across the face at some point, I am pretty sure Liara would approve of that little punishment.
She might not approve of my squadmate sacrificing, but I could never lose The Beautiful Blue Goddess! She means so much to me.

True -- of course Shepard leaves Liara to put everyone in the escape pods because she's probably damn sure she can save Joker and herself.  That's another reason why 'screw Joker' probably doesn't occur to most Shepards.

So.  Not putting Joker over Liara, just making sure Liara gets everyone else off and sure I'll see her again, is my reasoning.

And yes, I approve of a slap , though I'd prefer it to be LiLi doing it.  Hmm, if she comes aboard the Normandy that might be a nice add to the DLC?

That's why I said before, that Shepard is a hero, and they can do stupid things sometimes. Shepard does think she is able to save Joker and herself. Yes, it's the right thing to do. Make sure Liara doesn't risk her life too, so tell her to leave. Then go pull the stupid Joker out of his chair and shove him in the lifepod. See Liara afterwards and yell at Joker later. It doesn't work, and Shepard dies.

Yes, it is the Collectors fault, when you look at the big picture, but it's easier to blame Joker for bad driving and for having so big an ego as to think he can save a burning ship.

All I wanted was for Joker to say he was sorry, and say he'd never break and order ever again. Shepard kind of needs Joker, and isn't going to space him or something...but when Liara gets on board, if she wants to kill/hurt him, I won't stop her.

[JaylaClark]

JPfanner wrote...

scmadsen wrote...
Call it evil if you will, but I'd rather be selfish and save Liara, or Shepard if it meant Liara not having to go thru pain and suffer..then save anyone else. I would of been willing to even put the Collector mission on hold, for Liara, and help her get over everything, side track to kill the Shadow Broker too.

I feel the same way.  My main Shepard is Earthborn.  Liara is the only person she's ever had.  Even for my other Shepard's though, they don't really have anything of their own except for Liara.  Everything else is all about the Council, the Alliance, galactic civilzation in general, or the psychological needs of the crew.  Shepard needs something for themselves.
It's like when Mordin talks about his nephew.  That stopping the Collectors and the Reapers is important, but saving the galaxy is kind of a meaningless context unless you can personalize it.  My Shepard is fighting the Reapers for Liara, and for a future with Liara.  Without that she'd just have no point of reference for doing anything.

So for you, this would be totally reasonable ... okay, that fits.  I just don't personally agree with it, and consider that if my Shepard did that she wouldn't be able to look at another sentient being ever again in the face.

I still think that Shepard's thought process wouldn't think of going to get Joker as leaving Liara behind, because it's not a clear connection that 'if I go and save Joker I will die'.  It is taking a risk, but not one that even a Renegade Shep would think an impossible one.

[scmadsen]

JPfanner wrote...

scmadsen wrote...
Call it evil if you will, but I'd rather be selfish and save Liara, or Shepard if it meant Liara not having to go thru pain and suffer..then save anyone else. I would of been willing to even put the Collector mission on hold, for Liara, and help her get over everything, side track to kill the Shadow Broker too.

I feel the same way.  My main Shepard is Earthborn.  Liara is the only person she's ever had.  Even for my other Shepard's though, they don't really have anything of their own except for Liara.  Everything else is all about the Council, the Alliance, galactic civilzation in general, or the psychological needs of the crew.  Shepard needs something for themselves.
It's like when Mordin talks about his nephew.  That stopping the Collectors and the Reapers is important, but saving the galaxy is kind of a meaningless context unless you can personalize it.  My Shepard is fighting the Reapers for Liara, and for a future with Liara.  Without that she'd just have no point of reference for doing anything.

I agree. Liara is the reason my Shepard does all this. She's the only thing my Shepard has to hold onto. With the way the Alliance and the Council treat Shepard, the way TIM is a bastard, even the way the crew doesn't seem to care about Shepard really...Shepard could rightly just tell them all to shove it. Tali might be the one person that really cares about Shepard, maybe Chakwas too. But they didn't go thru what Liara did, for you. And Tail doesn't love my femshep.

[JPfanner]

JaylaClark wrote...
So for you, this would be totally reasonable ... okay, that fits.  I just don't personally agree with it, and consider that if my Shepard did that she wouldn't be able to look at another sentient being ever again in the face.

I still think that Shepard's thought process wouldn't think of going to get Joker as leaving Liara behind, because it's not a clear connection that 'if I go and save Joker I will die'.  It is taking a risk, but not one that even a Renegade Shep would think an impossible one.

Shepard makes those kinds of decisions all the time.  There's going to be trauma no matter which way you go.  Like that Javelin Missile mission where you have to choose which half of the colony gets nuked.  What can Shepard say to those people?  So I think any Shepard is more than capable of handling the emotional trauma associated with those decisions.  That's a large part of what makes them Shepard.
I think that Shepard would definitely try and save Joker at the beginning of ME2, because that is the kind of thing that Shepard does all the time.  Shepard doesn't pick Joker over Liara or just randomly risk their lives.  But if there was a decision like on Virmire where it was one or the other, well then Liara is going to be winning each and everytime without exception for my Shepards.

[JaylaClark]

JPfanner wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...
So for you, this would be totally reasonable ... okay, that fits.  I just don't personally agree with it, and consider that if my Shepard did that she wouldn't be able to look at another sentient being ever again in the face.

I still think that Shepard's thought process wouldn't think of going to get Joker as leaving Liara behind, because it's not a clear connection that 'if I go and save Joker I will die'.  It is taking a risk, but not one that even a Renegade Shep would think an impossible one.

Shepard makes those kinds of decisions all the time.  There's going to be trauma no matter which way you go.  Like that Javelin Missile mission where you have to choose which half of the colony gets nuked.  What can Shepard say to those people?  So I think any Shepard is more than capable of handling the emotional trauma associated with those decisions.  That's a large part of what makes them Shepard.
I think that Shepard would definitely try and save Joker at the beginning of ME2, because that is the kind of thing that Shepard does all the time.  Shepard doesn't pick Joker over Liara or just randomly risk their lives.  But if there was a decision like on Virmire where it was one or the other, well then Liara is going to be winning each and everytime without exception for my Shepards.

Exactly.  If it were clearly one or the other, Liara wins, Shepard would be tortured about it -- as would LiLi -- and then they'd move on.  The big problem is, with Liara on her squad, Shepard has someone she knows she'll never send to their death for any reason... *sighs* this is why I keep losing the cute Ilos dialogue with LiLi.  I keep RPing that she's got to stay on the ship to reduce the chance of that happening.

Modifié par JaylaClark, 30 mars 2010 - 04:36 .

[scmadsen]

If Liara was faced with the same choice, she would pick Shepard also. She did pick Shepard when leaving Feron behind. She was willing to stay on the Normandy with Shepard, to help get Joker. She knows it was the right thing to do, to save Joker, and she didn't want to leave Shepard. But when it came down to Feron, or Shepard, she picked Shepard. A dead Shepard, rather then a live Feron. That says something.

[JaylaClark]

scmadsen wrote...

If Liara was faced with the same choice, she would pick Shepard also. She did pick Shepard when leaving Feron behind. She was willing to stay on the Normandy with Shepard, to help get Joker. She knows it was the right thing to do, to save Joker, and she didn't want to leave Shepard. But when it came down to Feron, or Shepard, she picked Shepard. A dead Shepard, rather then a live Feron. That says something.

Yeah... she sounds beyond obsessed to the non-Liarasexuals out there, but we know the truth.  She loves Shepard just that much, regardless of whether it's reciprocated.  (And I think it should at least be reciprocated in a platonic way even by the Talimancers and the Shelenkos and such...)

[JPfanner]

I bet Liara feels a bit guilty about even mentioning to Shepard that Joker wouldn't evacuate. The guilt about not mentioning it and heading off to the pods together would have probably been a lot less than the guilt from mentioning it and Shepard dying.

[scmadsen]

I bet Liara has thought about it, that she could of not said anything to Shepard, and the two of them could of left together, leaving Joker behind. She would of felt bad about it, but would of had Shepard. In turn, she must feel bad she told Shepard about Joker, and that if she hadn't, Shepard never would of died. I'm sure she hates Joker, maybe not enough to act on it, but I bet she does.


Liara can be obsessed, I don't mind. It's kind of sexy. How can you turn down the love and attention of a Goddess? It's better then "I'm an angry crazy **** that kills people, oh and I have a sad past, you're weird, wanna do it?" or "I'm so perfect, you're so perfect, lets make babies." or "I could die, but I wanna do you anyway." or "Hey, we might die, wanna do it?" or "You remind me of my dead wife, wanna do it?" or "You're such a prize, I wanna add you to my bedpost notches."

Modifié par scmadsen, 30 mars 2010 - 05:11 .

[JPfanner]

Well, we can't really throw stones at Liara being obsessed with Shepard when we spend hours and hours writing about her on a forum, giggle and sigh over screenshots of her, and moon over her in general : )