50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Noxis6]

Well I'm not so sure if Liaras whole ME1 persona is supposed to be just a facade or just triggered by her crush on Shepard,that would be too much I think.

Though I had similar thoughts while wittnessing her ME2 performance,a friend of mine even suggested she was just using Shepard for her dirty work and her real agenda was to ascend to the SBs throne,though personally I think that goes to far.



Well in any case I'm prepared to be kicked in the face by Bioware yet again and should things really turn out worse I guess I'm willing to rid the galaxy of another criminal be it through talking or lethal means,but given Biowares record concerning Liara/Shepard interaction I guess I can be happy if I can order Shepard to pick his/her nose

[screwoffreg]

Noxis6 wrote...

Well I'm not so sure if Liaras whole ME1 persona is supposed to be just a facade or just triggered by her crush on Shepard,that would be too much I think.
Though I had similar thoughts while wittnessing her ME2 performance,a friend of mine even suggested she was just using Shepard for her dirty work and her real agenda was to ascend to the SBs throne,though personally I think that goes to far.

Well in any case I'm prepared to be kicked in the face by Bioware yet again and should things really turn out worse I guess I'm willing to rid the galaxy of another criminal be it through talking or lethal means,but given Biowares record concerning Liara/Shepard interaction I guess I can be happy if I can order Shepard to pick his/her nose

I don't think Liara's original calculation was to be the Shadow Broker, but you have to realize she is an Asari, and more than that a Maiden.  They have a long term view of things and are very politically astute.  You don't remove a powerful "man" like the SB without having a contingency as to who comes next.  You have to ask yourself who is more ready to rule than the one who kills the former king?

We know, at least from the cut audio files in the game, that Liara was intended to become the next Shadow Broker at least for the balance of ME 2.  She would, in that case, be a strong opponent of the Illusive Man.  Maybe she even becomes a replacement for him if you are more "Paragon" or at least more loyal to her.

If she does turn out to be the Shadow Broker and offers her services as a "New" Illusive Woman, to be honest I think I prefer the Illusive Man.  At least I know that he is self-absorbed, so I expect a stab in the front, rather than a stab in the back from an old friend.

[bjdbwea]

Well, let's not forget that she is a character in a video game. There was nothing in ME 1 that hinted at her personality being different from how it appeared. If the writers would now suddenly say, "well, her new personality is actually her real personality", then that would be very lazy and bad writing (again). As was discussed before, her new behaviour could be explainable with a little effort, but not with such an "explanation".

Oh, and about killing so many stuff: If you think about it, it's over-the-top in all of these games anyway (to fit the gameplay purpose obviously). But virtually no character ever says a word about it.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 30 mars 2010 - 03:49 .

[Noxis6]

screwoffreg wrote...
I don't think Liara's original calculation was to be the Shadow Broker, but you have to realize she is an Asari, and more than that a Maiden.  They have a long term view of things and are very politically astute.  You don't remove a powerful "man" like the SB without having a contingency as to who comes next.  You have to ask yourself who is more ready to rule than the one who kills the former king?

We know, at least from the cut audio files in the game, that Liara was intended to become the next Shadow Broker at least for the balance of ME 2.  She would, in that case, be a strong opponent of the Illusive Man.  Maybe she even becomes a replacement for him if you are more "Paragon" or at least more loyal to her.

If she does turn out to be the Shadow Broker and offers her services as a "New" Illusive Woman, to be honest I think I prefer the Illusive Man.  At least I know that he is self-absorbed, so I expect a stab in the front, rather than a stab in the back from an old friend.

As said before I'm willing to rid the galaxy of another criminal should things turn out that worse,though I dont believe Bioware will give me that option,yet still I have the feeling Bioware will stay through to what they had planed in some form maybe with new recorded lines

A problem with Liara being a TIM type is there are already enough characters that can fill this role as big signpost,Udina/Anderson for example I dont believe the council can play stupid again in ME3 and even then TIM is still around even if you are paragon and blow up the base,Shepard is still the best option to save humanity from certain doom,I doubt TIM is so stupid not to realize that out of some hurt sense of pride

[screwoffreg]

I can't see Liara and TIM working together very well. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she is furious at you for giving him the Base (if you do) as it seems her work with Cerberus is more a matter of necessity than choice.

[Noxis6]

screwoffreg wrote...

I can't see Liara and TIM working together very well. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if she is furious at you for giving him the Base (if you do) as it seems her work with Cerberus is more a matter of necessity than choice.

Yeah I doubt that would work out,but what I meant is we dont really need Liara for an TIM type role as I pointed out there are already enough characters to fill that out TIM among though I could see Anderson maybe taking it for ME3 well unless  the reapers start their Invasion by blowing up the Citadell

[Flamewielder]

justinnstuff wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

To paraphrase a post made earlier by Flamewalker:

Regarding Liara's apparent density in ME2, perhaps there's more to Liara than we know.  Some people are easily convinced of the innocence and emotional depth and emotional tenderness of the Asari species simply because they appear to humans to be females, when, in fact, we see them operating crime-syndicates and selling drugs.  We're acting on the stereotypes of our species in regarding the Asari.  (Really, I have no idea how to phrase the above without sounding like a misogynist, but I did it to the best of my abilities.)

Perhaps Liara's social awkwardness has hidden from the players the factual properties of Liara's personality.  Perhaps she's more like her mother than she lets on.  Perhaps she's more vicious than we think.  Perhaps her behavior in ME2 is actually fitting for her personality.  Perhaps killing to get what she wants is/has become part of who she is, and she will revert to her socially awkward state when interacting with Shepard because, as we know, she is socially clumsy, especially around Shepard.

What I'm saying is that perhaps we shouldn't view Liara as perfect, and in so doing close off alternate avenues of interpretation of Liara's character.  We'd all like to think that she's perfect, because we love her, but let's not be simple-mnded.

You know, I can't disagree. Hell, she quotes her mother in ME2. Then again, nothing is perfect so I don't mind if my one and only LI has any flaws. Hell, I play part Renegade on my paragon shepards. I guess she's sort of like my Shep. Her hearts in the right place, but sometimes you have to lay down the law.

Yes, I was trying to illustrate that some of the dissappointement players feel over the reunion in ME2 is based more on expectations than what Liara's true personality might be. She's socially awkward, so she uses the same threat as her mother the way she would quote a similarly threatening line from a vid. I imagine my Shepard probably smiled hearing it too... the way we smile when we hear someone quoting a one-liner from Arnold Schwartzenagger.

Some people may still consider the scene poorly written and they may be right. But when you fill the blank spaces with what we've learned of Liara's character and asari in general, I'm not shocked to discover that Liara has some steel in her. Using biotics is an excercise in willpower. Asari are, for the most part, biotics. Several asari characters express respect for willpower in an individual. It might even be THE most important criteria an asari will look for in a potential mate (i.e. the thing they find most "sexy", as they're obviously not too picky about physical appearance, despite Aethyta's humorous comment about "going for asses".

Liara has a willfull personality, a powerful drive to persist in any task she sets herself to do. It takes a pretty pig-headed person to pursue academic research on the Proteans when every serious researcher sees you as a kid chasing around on a wild goose chase. I'd say that Liara's probably just as pig-headed as Ashley when dealing with matters they truly care about. So if Liara felt like she had to pay back some hefty debts before rejoining Shepard, as opposed to joining him right away and running from a bunch of "repo mercs" who's interference might screw up Shepard's mission.

Liara's got a sweet side, but she can be a cast-iron b***h if she needs to be. Shepard may be entitled to be dissappointed/angered by her refusal to join with him, but if she made up her mind it was for the best, Shepard's not gonna change it.

To me, Liara's character was under-written in ME1: too much trivia about the asari species at the expense of dialogue that would have explored HER and her personality. By contrast, we learned a bunch of personal stuff abouth Ashley: her family, her beliefs, reminisced about the drill sergeant who trained both Ash and Shepard, etc... It was a bit unfair to Liara, but it's what made me choose Ash over her as my main Shep LI. The Liara I saw in ME2 actually made me respect her MORE, even if I still think Ash was the right choice for my main Shep.
 
Anyway, that's my two-bits worth. I hope it contributed to a good discussion among Liara fans.

[jlb524]

Flamewielder wrote...

To me, Liara's character was under-written in ME1: too much trivia about the asari species at the expense of dialogue that would have explored HER and her personality. By contrast, we learned a bunch of personal stuff abouth Ashley: her family, her beliefs, reminisced about the drill sergeant who trained both Ash and Shepard, etc... It was a bit unfair to Liara, but it's what made me choose Ash over her as my main Shep LI.
 

I agree that her character was underwritten in ME1.  We know some pretty vague things about her life (her mother's a powerful matriarch, she's an expert on the Protheans, she's a bit of a prodigy in the archeaology field, etc.) but it's difficult to discern her motivations and every nuance of her personality from this.

She has shown that she can be caring and sympathetic in ME1.  She sympathizes with Saren, shows concern for Shepard over the Prothean beacon triggered nightmares, pleads for the Rachni to be spared, etc.  However, her personality is more complex than this and we really don't start to see it until after ME1 via the comic book and her brief cameo in ME2.

I'll admit, I loved Liara in ME1 b/c she was cute and cuddly and all that but now I see her as potentially one of the most interesting characters in the entire series.  This only makes me love and appreciate her character more.

[Rive Caedo]

Hm. I hadn't thought of it before, but a romanced Liara actually seems to make the most sense storywise. Her mother dying AND the Shepard she recently bonded with dying within a short time of each other is enough to make some drastic personality changes in anyone!

[Marcin K]

General Stubbs wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...
I totally agree. I can't wait for Liara DLC and ME3. We also have Redemption 4 in a week-ish 

When waiting to comfort The Beautiful Blue Goddess, the wait seems like an eternity.
It will be completely worth it though to make her feel better though.
I can't wait to see Liara again in Redemption #4!
I wonder how she is going to react to seeing Shepard's body again. It makes me sad to think of a sad and grieving Liara.
Shepard will be able tell her how much she loves her in DLC though! <3:wub:

i guess we need YET ANOTHER LiLi pic to cheer ourselves up then:

[bjdbwea]

She was not "underwritten" in ME 1, and I say that as an RPG player who's not easily pleased. You can always wish for more dialogue, but it was okay. I wouldn't deny that you learn more about Ashley herself in conversation, but of course as a human and fellow soldier, they didn't have to talk about their culture and all that stuff. The alien crew members on the other hand, including Liara, were indeed used to tell the player about their races, and I think that was very clever by the developers. Much more immersing and interesting than reading the stuff in a codex entry (though the codex is great too, to go into more details).

You still learned enough about Liara, not in the least if you took her with you during the missions. That's an aspect that unfortunately is pretty much nonexistant in ME 2.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 30 mars 2010 - 05:40 .

[JaylaClark]

Can't say it enough... even if she is a cast-iron b*tch she's our cast-iron b*tch .

Oh, and does anyone have a FL and NY state flag banner for the community problem?

[jlb524]

JaylaClark wrote...

Can't say it enough... even if she is a cast-iron b*tch she's our cast-iron b*tch .

Damn straight!!!

Oh, and does anyone have a FL and NY state flag banner for the community problem?

There's a ton in the Bizarre thread.

If you scroll down on this page you'll find the New York one.  Others have the Florida one in their sig.

Edit:  Specific links:

Florida one

NY one

Modifié par jlb524, 30 mars 2010 - 05:48 .

[jlb524]

bjdbwea wrote...

She was not "underwritten" in ME 1, and I say that as an RPG player who's not easily pleased. You can always wish for more dialogue, but it was okay. I wouldn't deny that you learn more about Ashley herself in conversation, but of course as a human and fellow soldier, they didn't have to talk about their culture and all that stuff. The crew alien crew members on the other hand, including Liara, were indeed used to tell the player about their races, and I think that was very clever by the developers. Much more immersing and interesting than reading the stuff in a codex entry (though the codex is great too, to go into more details).

You still learned enough about Liara, not in the least if you took her with you during the missions. That's an aspect that unfortunately is pretty much nonexistant in ME 2.

I guess it depends on what is meant by 'underwritten'.  I felt she was (as well as Tali, Wrex) due to her reliance on explaining the asari species/culture to Shepard (expecially the mating habits).  This in itself is fine but I just wish there was more personal Liara dialog to go along with it.  I did feel a sense of getting to know Liara but I also got the sense that there is much more to her character.  The fact that she was 'underwritten' a bit in ME1 might be a clever way to hold back some of Liara's personality so they could introduce more of it in later installments.  Or, they might have just been constrained by time. 

[Asheer_Khan]

Too bad i can't give Lili OSD whit this great song www.youtube.com/watch to cheer her up and assure that she will always have place in heart <3of my Shepard and her cabin of course:wub:

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 30 mars 2010 - 05:52 .

[Derumiel]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Too bad i can't give Lili OSD whit this great song www.youtube.com/watch to cheer her up and assure that she will always have place in heart <3of my Shepard and her cabin of course:wub:

Guess, Liara would like the song:

[Asheer_Khan]

Sometimes i wonder how Liara's and Shepard situation will look if Drew Karpshyn will be still lead writer for ME trilogy...because what Mac Walters do was plain outrage when he reduced major ME 1 characters (except Tali and Garrus... however question is WHY?) to 10 minute cameos (Ash/Kaidan, Anderson (or Udina in default game) and create absolutely unlogical Lili's situation on Illum...



But now something tells me that dark clouds start to gather over entire ME series... WHAT IF EA decide to scrap ME 3 and divert entire effort on SW ToR?

I known that this is too dark prediction but my senses start to rise some concerns in that field.

[Marcin K]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Too bad i can't give Lili OSD whit this great song www.youtube.com/watch to cheer her up and assure that she will always have place in heart <3of my Shepard and her cabin of course:wub:

nice song, my Shep has place in his cabin and heart ready for Liara 24/7, he's just waiting for her.....oh the wait...