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[GuardianAngel470]

Shadowcat101 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Ok, I'm going to ask a question but before I do I want you to know that I am not trolling and that I mean no offense to any of you for your liking Liara as a LI. I'm just curious to know something about your thought processes regarding Liara. In context, I romance Tali and similar things can be said about her as a romance. I'm not a die hard tali fan, I don't write fan fiction about her and I don't post regularly in the Tali thread. I'm a relatively level headed fan of her.

Ok, and now to the question. What do you all see in Liara? I romanced her in ME1 because I liked her better than the xenophobic ashley (Who never gets over her hate for aliens). In all my conversations with Liara including the dialog on Therum and after several missions she always cama across as a very young (read 13 year old) girl who was completely ignorant about any and all romance and it seemed as if she had a crush on Shepard and shepard took it from crush to sex. That disturbs me a little, but I suppose you guys didn't read it that way. I always felt like I was taking advantage of her because of how she came across to me. What about your perception of her is different from mine? Do you not see her as young and impressionable? I understand that she is more than Three times shepard's age but that doesn't affect how she comes across. Maybe it is just her innocent personality that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it is the fainting, the weakness.

I don't create a new thread because then I wouldn't hear from all the fans, I would hear from people that agree with me, which is not what I want. Please take me seriously, I don't intend to offend, I'm just curious.

I’m sure different people here have different reasons for liking Liara as a LI, so I can only talk about mine. You asked “What do you all see in Liara?”
 
 In truth, I see myself in her a bit. Because of this it’s an instant attraction. No I’m not all over myself like some of you may be thinking. I can see where she is coming from and how she must feel. So for her to win me over as my Number 1 LI is easy for her. That and I personally think she is attractive, intelligent and honest. Things I like in any person. And the fact she can be a bit naïve, I find that funny and cute.
 
Like I said, different strokes for different folks. BioWare did a good job at trying to cover all the bases.    

Ok, I can understand that.  I don't see myself in her, I've been through too much to find that level of naivety attractive.  I'm pretty cynical, and I'm often right.  I personally prefer a woman to be strong but not callous, which is why I romance tali and not Miranda.  Tali is strong but is willing to show how much she is in pain, ie Loyalty quest. You have to dig through too much to romance miranda and Jack, which is just not fun for me.  That is one of the reasons I preferred Liara to Ashley, with ashley you had to dig through her xenophobia, and for someone who liked the alien crew members better than the human ones, that just isn't fun (barring Joker).

Tali and Liara were mentally strong in the sense that neither of them had any outstanding mental issues you had to get past in order to romance them.  I'm way, way too experienced with that to ever do it by choice in a video game.  Of all the Manshep romances Tali and Liara were the best for me because of that, but I still choose tali because of how Liara came across as to me.

[GuardianAngel470]

Littledoom wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Ok, and now to the question. What do you all see in Liara? I romanced her in ME1 because I liked her better than the xenophobic ashley (Who never gets over her hate for aliens). In all my conversations with Liara including the dialog on Therum and after several missions she always cama across as a very young (read 13 year old) girl who was completely ignorant about any and all romance and it seemed as if she had a crush on Shepard and shepard took it from crush to sex. That disturbs me a little, but I suppose you guys didn't read it that way. I always felt like I was taking advantage of her because of how she came across to me. What about your perception of her is different from mine? Do you not see her as young and impressionable? I understand that she is more than Three times shepard's age but that doesn't affect how she comes across. Maybe it is just her innocent personality that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it is the fainting, the weakness.

I don't know if she comes of as young, not to me anyway. Naive and somewhat lacking in social experiences yes. I like her for her nerdyness and awkwardness when it comes to social interaction, think she shows a lot of passion and a strong drive when it comes to things she likes (Protheans and Shep) and thats admirable properties as well. I don't see it as Shep take advantage of her in any way, not anymore then you would of Tali. She can be seen as young and innocent as well, it all comes down to how you interpret the writing ( that is a little lacking at times) I suppose.

That's what I thought the motivation was, but I wanted confirmation.  Over the course of my....travels, I've gotten really good at navigating humanity, and I tend not to judge someone based on their personality.  That said, the one time I will be picky is when I am starting a romantic relationship.  My first girlfriend was just like any other friend I had, very different from me who shared none of my interests.  After about six months of that I realized that I couldn't settle for anybody like I did my friends.  Honestly, I don't know if there is a woman out there that I would find acceptable, but who knows, I could get lucky.

But that may be a little bit TMI, oh well. What I am trying to say is that Liara doesn't fit with my personality, and I can understand how she might fit others better.

[JamieCOTC]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Ok, I'm going to ask a question but before I do I want you to know that I am not trolling and that I mean no offense to any of you for your liking Liara as a LI. I'm just curious to know something about your thought processes regarding Liara. In context, I romance Tali and similar things can be said about her as a romance. I'm not a die hard tali fan, I don't write fan fiction about her and I don't post regularly in the Tali thread. I'm a relatively level headed fan of her.

Ok, and now to the question. What do you all see in Liara? I romanced her in ME1 because I liked her better than the xenophobic ashley (Who never gets over her hate for aliens). In all my conversations with Liara including the dialog on Therum and after several missions she always cama across as a very young (read 13 year old) girl who was completely ignorant about any and all romance and it seemed as if she had a crush on Shepard and shepard took it from crush to sex. That disturbs me a little, but I suppose you guys didn't read it that way. I always felt like I was taking advantage of her because of how she came across to me. What about your perception of her is different from mine? Do you not see her as young and impressionable? I understand that she is more than Three times shepard's age but that doesn't affect how she comes across. Maybe it is just her innocent personality that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it is the fainting, the weakness.

I don't create a new thread because then I wouldn't hear from all the fans, I would hear from people that agree with me, which is not what I want. Please take me seriously, I don't intend to offend, I'm just curious.

I can see where you are coming from, but I get another vibe from her.  While Liara admits to being seen as “barely out of childhood” by other Asari, I don’t see her as the quintessential “impressionable teenager.”  For me, Liara is more like the “hot librarian.”  She’s bookish, (nerdish maybe), intelligent, pretty, but socially and sexually awkward.  The attraction is not entirely dissimilar to Alister in DA:O, who is socially clumsy.  In a side banter between Alister and Leliana he feels that his awkwardness is a failing, but Leliana tells him it is part of his charm.  The same could be said of Liara.  Also, if you recall, Matriach Aethyta, the Asari bartender at Eternity, talks about “shaking her ass in some sleazy bar” at the age of 100.  Liara is 106.  If she were human she would probably be in her early 20s and most likely more intelligent than her peers. 

[GuardianAngel470]

Cartims wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I'm not trying to make a point, I'm trying to learn what others see in her.  What do you see in her?

I think hes more of a Talimancer.

He just visits here now and then.

You don't need to think, if you had read the whole post I tell you that I romance Tali.  No need to speculate, I already told you what I do.  And I have an honest question about your opinions on Liara, are you going to answer me or not?

I warned you.....hostile territory......enter at own risk

Hey man, I argued with ZennExile and won, and he knew it.  I can handle a little ignorance.

[WRagahfl]

Of all games I've played there have been no characters even close to Liara do want in the third game please. And bit offtopic any way to change my name or am I stuck with this very special name?

[AndroLeonidas]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I'm not trying to make a point, I'm trying to learn what others see in her.  What do you see in her?

I think hes more of a Talimancer.

He just visits here now and then.

You don't need to think, if you had read the whole post I tell you that I romance Tali.  No need to speculate, I already told you what I do.  And I have an honest question about your opinions on Liara, are you going to answer me or not?

This is relativey simple for me.

First off... I think if you looked at her as a 13 year old then you were not really into the game at all. She's a 106 in Asari years and because her mothe ris a Matriarch, she has been held up to expectations that were not hers. She became a scientist in anicent history. To me she comes across as a supremely intelligent young woman, perhaps more naive than most, but sh eis perfectly capable of defending herself as she stated to you in your first conversation. Don't know many 13 year olds who can fight of slavers and pirates.

Second... if you catch the close ups of her face in game, she has incredible eyes. Not to mention she is rather hot looking in my opinion. You have to remember... time ingame is moving far faster than it is for us. The time between your first conversation and second might be days or weeks. So it's not so much a love at first sight thing I think. She delved into your history because of the visions at first like she said... and then she tells you it just cotinued to grow from there. Perfectly reasonable, especially if you bring her on every mission in ME1 and she sees you go full paragon.

Third... I simply hated Ashley. I still do for some reason. She came off as too angry and butch to me. I understand she was trying to attone for perceived mistakes by her family, but she went to the extreme and IMO she would have scared off just about anyone.

So there you have it.

[GuardianAngel470]

JamieCOTC wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Ok, I'm going to ask a question but before I do I want you to know that I am not trolling and that I mean no offense to any of you for your liking Liara as a LI. I'm just curious to know something about your thought processes regarding Liara. In context, I romance Tali and similar things can be said about her as a romance. I'm not a die hard tali fan, I don't write fan fiction about her and I don't post regularly in the Tali thread. I'm a relatively level headed fan of her.

Ok, and now to the question. What do you all see in Liara? I romanced her in ME1 because I liked her better than the xenophobic ashley (Who never gets over her hate for aliens). In all my conversations with Liara including the dialog on Therum and after several missions she always cama across as a very young (read 13 year old) girl who was completely ignorant about any and all romance and it seemed as if she had a crush on Shepard and shepard took it from crush to sex. That disturbs me a little, but I suppose you guys didn't read it that way. I always felt like I was taking advantage of her because of how she came across to me. What about your perception of her is different from mine? Do you not see her as young and impressionable? I understand that she is more than Three times shepard's age but that doesn't affect how she comes across. Maybe it is just her innocent personality that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe it is the fainting, the weakness.

I don't create a new thread because then I wouldn't hear from all the fans, I would hear from people that agree with me, which is not what I want. Please take me seriously, I don't intend to offend, I'm just curious.

I can see where you are coming from, but I get another vibe from her.  While Liara admits to being seen as “barely out of childhood” by other Asari, I don’t see her as the quintessential “impressionable teenager.”  For me, Liara is more like the “hot librarian.”  She’s bookish, (nerdish maybe), intelligent, pretty, but socially and sexually awkward.  The attraction is not entirely dissimilar to Alister in DA:O, who is socially clumsy.  In a side banter between Alister and Leliana he feels that his awkwardness is a failing, but Leliana tells him it is part of his charm.  The same could be said of Liara.  Also, if you recall, Matriach Aethyta, the Asari bartender at Eternity, talks about “shaking her ass in some sleazy bar” at the age of 100.  Liara is 106.  If she were human she would probably be in her early 20s and most likely more intelligent than her peers. 

Ok, thanks for responding.  I wanted to know what you guys saw in her. I had an idea that wasn't dissimilar to what you have said.  Keep em coming people.

[GuardianAngel470]

Somebody1003 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Cartims wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Somebody1003 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I'm not trying to make a point, I'm trying to learn what others see in her.  What do you see in her?

I think hes more of a Talimancer.

He just visits here now and then.

You don't need to think, if you had read the whole post I tell you that I romance Tali.  No need to speculate, I already told you what I do.  And I have an honest question about your opinions on Liara, are you going to answer me or not?

I warned you.....hostile territory......enter at own risk

Hey man, I argued with ZennExile and won, and he knew it.  I can handle a little ignorance.

Look back on the other page, I wasnt referring to you.

Sorry if I wasnt clear in my post.

Oh, so one of the other posters is a Talimancer that occasionally visits here.  Ok, I thought you were just being an jerk, my mistake.

[Shadowcat101]

its np GuardianAngel470, it fits right into the topic here, and we are all pertty open minded to other peoples ideas.

[GuardianAngel470]

@Andro, thanks for responding. I have a 13 year old sister who has several 13-14 year old friends, one of which has a crush on me, so I had a comparable situation to base my opinion on. That also means that that situation has colored my opinion, so it doesn't mean you or I are wrong. Different people with different experiences will have different opinions.

[GuardianAngel470]

Littledoom wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Littledoom wrote...

I don't know if she comes of as young, not to me anyway. Naive and somewhat lacking in social experiences yes. I like her for her nerdyness and awkwardness when it comes to social interaction, think she shows a lot of passion and a strong drive when it comes to things she likes (Protheans and Shep) and thats admirable properties as well. I don't see it as Shep take advantage of her in any way, not anymore then you would of Tali. She can be seen as young and innocent as well, it all comes down to how you interpret the writing ( that is a little lacking at times) I suppose.

That's what I thought the motivation was, but I wanted confirmation.  Over the course of my....travels, I've gotten really good at navigating humanity, and I tend not to judge someone based on their personality.  That said, the one time I will be picky is when I am starting a romantic relationship.  My first girlfriend was just like any other friend I had, very different from me who shared none of my interests.  After about six months of that I realized that I couldn't settle for anybody like I did my friends.  Honestly, I don't know if there is a woman out there that I would find acceptable, but who knows, I could get lucky.

But that may be a little bit TMI, oh well. What I am trying to say is that Liara doesn't fit with my personality, and I can understand how she might fit others better.

Well we can't all like the same thing and it's good ther seems to be someone for everyone in this game.

I agree.  I think if Tali was a romance option in ME1 then I would probably like her less.  I liked her because she was secretly awesome to take into combat in ME1.  That is kinda where I get the Strong vibe from her, I think.  In ME2 both Tali and Garrus have something Liara and Ashley/Kaiden never did: A prior game from which they could base their opinion on.  It makes their romances seem more genuine.  If Liara had been a LI in ME2 then the same thing would happen for her.  

[scmadsen]

@ GuardianAngel470

You asked what do we see in Liara, and why do we pick her. You then said you romanced Tali. Ok, I'm gonna get attacked for this, and I know we try not to talk badly about others here, or their fans. But I feel it needs to be said.

What about the fact that Tali herself is newly an adult with her people, and wasn't in ME1 when we met her, she was still a child to her people. Also take into account, that being with her, could kill her. It seems rather selfish and reckless of Shepard to take advantage of a young girl that could die, just to get her into bed.

Liara is young by the Asari mindset true, but she is still a young adult. She is old enough to make her own choices. We know from background given in game, that Asari can mate at around 40, we also know that Liara was around 50 when she left home. So it stands to reason, that at 106 in ME1, Liara is about like a 25 year old human. This in the context of Liara saying her academic peers didn't take her seriously because she is young, is understandable. Imagine a mid-20-something going before a group of 60-80 year old professors and telling them all their ideas are wrong. Yea, you can guess what happens.

As I have said before...there is long post of mine on Liara covering this subject some pages back...look it up if you want to. Anyway, as I have said, Liara isn't weak, socially awkward, or helpless, just because people don't take the time to understand her, and stereotype her.

Liara was shy and unsure, because she had a crush on Shepard, and didn't know anything about humans. She is a Matriarch's daughter, and grew up in a court style atmosphere. She would know how to handle social situations with other Asari. But not knowing humans, and being attracted to one, puts her in a bit of a weird position.

Liara is a powerful biotic, and clearly able to take care of herself. She never had any problems when on her own, till the Geth. The same Geth that took out all of Ashley's squad and nearly her as well. The Geth are not just a band of mercs, thugs, or slavers. So don't discount her on that point. Take into account how powerful her mother is, she most likely trained her daughter, or at the very least, had her best commandos train Liara.

Liara also isn't some stupid little girl, people like to say she is, or think she is. She figured out what happened to the Protheans all on her own, Shepard just helped her fill in the gaps she was missing and confirmed for her, what she knew. Look at it this way, Liara figured out in fifty years, what others had been looking at for thousands. She knew about the Reapers, she didn't know their name or the details of what happened. Liara is clearly a genius.

Don't discount Liara before taking the time to fully look at who she is, and what she has been thru.

As to why I love Liara, what's not to love...Liara is cute and shy around the one she loves, she's beautiful, she's very smart, she's powerful and able to take care of herself, she has a strong will and doesn't let what others think or say get in her way, she is loyal and devoted to her lover, she goes thru hell to make things right, she was a virgin and takes being a bondmate very seriously, that shows her to be very loving, caring, and faithful.

That and more are why I love her, why I fell for her in the first game, and stayed with her in the second. I haven't given up hope and faith in her.

Modifié par scmadsen, 31 mars 2010 - 08:53 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Shadowcat101 wrote...

its np GuardianAngel470, it fits right into the topic here, and we are all pertty open minded to other peoples ideas.

That is an important thing.  It is very valuable to be open to other's opinions. 

[GuardianAngel470]

scmadsen wrote...

@ GuardianAngel470

You asked what do we see in Liara, and why do we pick her. You then said you romanced Tali. Ok, I'm gonna get attacked for this, and I know we try not to talk badly about others here, or their fans. But I feel it needs to be said.

What about the fact that Tali herself is newly an adult with her people, and wasn't in ME1 when we met her, she was still a child to her people. Also take into account, that being with her, could kill her. It seems rather selfish and reckless of Shepard to take advantage of a young girl that could die, just to get her into bed.

Liara is young by the Asari mindset true, but she is still a young adult. She is old enough to make her own choices. We know from background given in game, that Asari can mate at around 40, we also know that Liara was around 50 when she left home. So it stands to reason, that at 106 in ME1, Liara is about like a 25 year old human. This in the context of Liara saying her academic peers didn't take her seriously because she young, is understandable. Imagine a mid-20-something going before a group of 60-80 year old professors and telling them all their ideas are wrong. Yea, you can guess what happens.

As I have said before...there is long post of mine on Liara covering this subject some pages back...look it up if you want to. Anyway, as I have said, Liara isn't weak, socially awkward, or helpless, just because people don't take the time to understand her, and stereotype her.

Liara was shy and unsure, because she had a crush on Shepard, and didn't know anything about humans. She is a Matriarch's daughter, and grew up in a court style atmosphere. She would know how to hand social situations with other Asari. But not knowing humans, and being attracted to one, puts her in a bit of a weird position.

Liara is a powerful biotic, and clearly able to take care of herself. She never had any problems when on her own, till the Geth. The same Geth that took out all of Ashley's squad and nearly her as well. The Geth are not just a band of mercs, thugs, or slavers. So don't discount her on that point. Take into account how powerful her mother is, she most likely trained her daughter, or at the very least, had her best commandos train Liara.

Liara also isn't some stupid little girl, people like to say she is, or think she is. She figured out what happened to the Protheans all on her on, Shepard just helped her fill in the gaps she was missing and confirmed for her, what she knew. Look at it this way, Liara figured out in fifty years, what others had been looking at for thousands. She knew about the Reapers, she didn't know their name or the details of what happened. Liara is clearly a genius.

Don't discount Liara before taking the time to fully look at who she is, and what she has been thru.

As to why I love Liara, what's not to love...Liara is cute and shy around the one she loves, she's beautiful, she's very smart, she's powerful and able to take care of herself, she has a strong will and doesn't let what others think or say get in her way, she is loyal and devoted to her lover, she goes thru hell to make things right, she was a virgin and takes being a bondmate very seriously, that shows her to be very loving, caring, and faithful.

That and more are why I love her, why I fell for her in the first game, and stayed with her in the second. I haven't given up hope and faith in her.

Half of that was what I asked for, and half of that was ignorance.  I'm going to assume you didn't do the Tali romance as you love liara too much to cheat on her.  If you did do the romance, then you are guilty of what you are accusing me of: Not paying attention. Here's a trivia question: Who put forth actually making out in the Tali romance?  Who said that they didn't want to use neural stimulators?  If you answered Tali, then You are correct.  Shepard didn't say to tali that she should take off her mask.  Shepard didn't pressure her to endanger her health.  That was Tali's idea.  She wanted to do what very few if any of her people have done in centuries, other than on the Reproduction ship of the flotilla.

Tali may not have been an adult to her people in ME1, but in ME2 she is more than an adult, she is a hero, a bloody icon.  They use her for the most dangerous missions the Quarians do.  Including fighting, you guessed it, Geth.  Liara hid, Tali fought.  That is why I like her better, because she is like me.  

As I said, I did the Liara LI multiple times in ME1.  I've also done the Tali LI multiple times in ME2.  I speak from experience, and My opinion, which is neither right nor wrong, is based on my experience with my little sister who is 13 and her friends.  I've already said it in this thread, I just wanted to confirm my suspicions about your motivations, not start a flame war.  Everyone is different, and everyone has different reasons for liking a character.

And I never said she was stupid, I agree that what she did with the archeology of the protheans was genius and the best scientists in the world have her ability to deduce evidence and form a hypothesis. Her ability to think outside the box is what every scientist aspires to.

[screwoffreg]

I personally think what happened to Liara in ME 2 was Bioware's hand at showing some definite complexity in her character. I have issues with the manner they did so, but the fundamental premise I agree with.



Liara is not meant to be a wallflower or sideshow to Shepard's own glory. She has goals of her own which intertwine themselves with the commander's, but are complex and dangerous in their a way that is different from just "blow up Base".



I think of it as a, to use my ghetto fabulous terminology, "down ass girl" style. She may not always be with you, but she holds you down from afar. She has your back, takes care of things you can't even see and overall is supportive. While we all would have loved to see Liara blowing stuff up in ME 2, or just acknowledging the relationship, circumstances drive people apart (like war, duh) and sometimes it is when you DON'T see somebody that the reality of emotions like love are shown or wither away.



I am eager to see what role they intend for her later. Whether as the all seeing eye of the Shadow Broker or a nostalgic return as squaddie, it will be interesting.

[UFOash]

Littledoom wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
I'm going to assume you didn't do the Tali romance as you love liara too much to cheat on her. 

Don't have to cheat on anyone if you don't want too, you just have to make a playthrough of ME1 with a character that stays single. I did and used that one to romance Tali, she is my second favorite girl in the ME universe after all. Now I have to go in to hiding before the lynch mob comes and take me away

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRN!!!!

lol just kidding