50907 réponses à ce sujet

[scmadsen]

I now have a sad Liara avatar. She misses Shepard.

[JaylaClark]

scmadsen wrote...
/snip

I know, and I know that was a mistake. I don't blame anyone but myself. I stand by what I said though. Should I have said it, I'll agree I shouldn't have. It's nothing new though, other people have said as much. I did try to be civil however. No excuses though. Want to hate me for it, go ahead. I'm sorry. I will defend myself by saying I've never posted in the Tali thread or groups. And if I ever did, I don't remember, as it would be one line, something like, I like and support Tali.

I tried to break apart the arguments and show how they failed however. I guess I had to "attack" Tali a little...and yes, I'm better then that, and thank you for saying so...I should have gone about it another way.

Okay, glad to hear it... and very glad that the thread has calmed down from it.  (Especially glad no one posted a 'good riddance' post after GA470 did his final post, those irk me just a bit.  Especially since I was the target of a few of them in the flame-wars that were the Age of Conan boards.)

[JPfanner]

scmadsen wrote...
Does anyone have a better reason, why Liara doesn't drop everything and go with Shepard, is she truely lost to hate and anger now? That might be true, but I hope it isn't that simple. I would hope BioWare is better then that. Now, I know, we have to take into account, that they did this to keep her alive, but the story doesn't know it's just a story, nor does the Mass Effect world, know that it is just game. If you know what I mean.

If Liara couldn't let Sheaprd go, then why let go again, when you got want you wanted back, and it's standing right in front of you?

She's busy with something she feels is important that the player isn't given a chance to resolve for herself.  Like I said before, it is the exact circumstance that applies to almost all of the squadmates you do recruit.  You kill all those mercenaries that Garrus has been hunting and get him out of that building, you cure the plague and secure Mordin's clinic, arrive just in time to save Tali so she can get the information to the fleet, and so on. 

The player just isn't give the chance to resolve Liara's recruitment mission.  Tali refuses to go with Shepard on Freedom's Progress, she puts her own personal obligations ahead of the big picture.  But she isn't persecuted because of that since you can magically show up, save her, and resolve her situation later.  Would Garrus abandon his squad that he formed himself and who look to him for leadership if they hadn't been conveniently wiped out right before Shepard comes along?  We obviously don't know, but I think it is something worth considering. 

I think for some things they just happen for game mechanic or game design reasons and applying story/character contextual logic isn't always going to come up the same answer.  I honestly do think that it is just as a player you can't effectively do her recruitment mission and that doesn't make her any "worse" than everyone you are able to recruit in ME2.

[JamieCOTC]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

I've been buying comics since they were .25 cents each and I think you are spot on.  I’m not expecting any big reveal at the end nor am I expecting much in the way of any new “important” information. So far, what Redemption has done is it has expounded on what we already know.  It gave us details on the story Liara told us in ME2. We know the name of her friend, we know that the Shadow Broker used Blue Suns and a big ass Salarian to get Shepard’s body; we know these events started on Omega, but as a whole, nothing majorly new has come up. Redemption, for all the hype, is like a decoder ring.  It's fun to have while listening to "Little Orphan Annie." but in the end all that really matters is that you drink your Ovaltine. 

Obviously, I could be completely wrong and that would actually be nice.  I was
wrong about who Twilight was in the Buffy comic, so who knows.  

Like I said above, I think that there's alot more going on with Liara than we're being told in ME2, and that TIM has something to do with it. There's a reason as to why he lies about Liara at the beginning of ME2, and he's obviously deliberately trying to keep them apart whilst Shepard is working for him. If Liara is indeed working for Cerberus, then she'll be privy to alot of sensitive and incriminating information, something that TIM would not want Shepard to know. Hence, he tries to keep them apart.

That may very well be, but I doubt we'll find out about it until
ME3.  That's all I was trying to point out.  I will be happy to be wrong. 

[Fiannawolf]

Side note: Did anyone make a sig about FL being off the map too? Ahh, my home state is very silly at times.



I wonder if they will ever write prequel novels about our ME crew mates. Id totally buy all of them,

[JamieCOTC]

Fiannawolf wrote...

Side note: Did anyone make a sig about FL being off the map too? Ahh, my home state is very silly at times.

I wonder if they will ever write prequel novels about our ME crew mates. Id totally buy all of them,

I've seen one, but I couldn't point you to it.  sorry. 

[scmadsen]

JPfanner wrote...

She's busy with something she feels is important that the player isn't given a chance to resolve for herself.  Like I said before, it is the exact circumstance that applies to almost all of the squadmates you do recruit.  You kill all those mercenaries that Garrus has been hunting and get him out of that building, you cure the plague and secure Mordin's clinic, arrive just in time to save Tali so she can get the information to the fleet, and so on. 

The player just isn't give the chance to resolve Liara's recruitment mission.  Tali refuses to go with Shepard on Freedom's Progress, she puts her own personal obligations ahead of the big picture.  But she isn't persecuted because of that since you can magically show up, save her, and resolve her situation later.  Would Garrus abandon his squad that he formed himself and who look to him for leadership if they hadn't been conveniently wiped out right before Shepard comes along?  We obviously don't know, but I think it is something worth considering. 

I think for some things they just happen for game mechanic or game design reasons and applying story/character contextual logic isn't always going to come up the same answer.  I honestly do think that it is just as a player you can't effectively do her recruitment mission and that doesn't make her any "worse" than everyone you are able to recruit in ME2.

True, and that's as good a reason as I've seen. I remember you saying all this before too, and I thought about it and agreed then. This makes her no better or worse then any of the other squadmates, however isn't Liara a special case? In that, she went thru all this, just to see Shepard again, Shepard is back and standing right there, asking Liara to come, offering to help take down and the Shadow Broker, and she just  basiclly says, I have to do this here, on my own. I just have a hard time buying it. It's even harder, when she is your LI.

Modifié par scmadsen, 01 avril 2010 - 01:25 .

[JamieCOTC]

Liara, thinking of Shepard.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 01 avril 2010 - 01:32 .

[JamieCOTC]

Cue Imperial March theme. 

[scmadsen]

JamieCOTC wrote...


Cue Imperial March theme. 

Liara the Empress...I find that sexy...bring on the Evil Liara...I'll help her rule the galaxy!

[JamieCOTC]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Awww, sad Liara.

Is that when she says "Because I couldn't let you go"?

It might be.

[Unata]

Which ME1 armor do you all think Liara looks best in?

[JPfanner]

scmadsen wrote...
True, and that's as good a reason as I've seen. I remember you saying all this before too, and I thought about it and agreed then. This makes her no better or worse then any of the other squadmates, however isn't Liara a special case? In that, she went thru all this, just to see Shepard again, Shepard is back and standing right there, asking Liara to come, offering to help take down and the Shadow Broker, and she just  basiclly says, I have to do this here, on my own. I just have a hard time buying it. It's even harder, when she is your LI.

Yep, but really the same thing applies to Ashley and Kaiden.  They do have legitimate reasons for being concerned about Cerberus.  But this is Shepard and even as a friend and leader, let alone a lover, those two should really be a bit more willing to listen to Shepard at the very least.  Instead you have what is effectively a non-interactive scene with them where they deliver their monologue and then exit stage left.
Liara, Ashely, Kaiden, and Wrex were all designated from the start by designer fiat to not be squadmates in ME2.  So really any problems with their presentation in the game aren't from their motivation (which is artifically dictated to begin with) but from the execution to convince the player they have at least a good or acceptable reason for not joining.
It does really make no character or story sense that Liara, Ashley, and Kaiden wouldn't follow Shepard given their past.  Especially considering how totally absurdly easy it is for Shepard to convince total strangers within seconds of meeting to agree to come along on a suicide mission against enigmatic aliens beyond the Omega 4 relay that no ship in recorded history has ever returned from.

[scmadsen]

JPfanner wrote...

scmadsen wrote...
True, and that's as good a reason as I've seen. I remember you saying all this before too, and I thought about it and agreed then. This makes her no better or worse then any of the other squadmates, however isn't Liara a special case? In that, she went thru all this, just to see Shepard again, Shepard is back and standing right there, asking Liara to come, offering to help take down and the Shadow Broker, and she just  basiclly says, I have to do this here, on my own. I just have a hard time buying it. It's even harder, when she is your LI.

Yep, but really the same thing applies to Ashley and Kaiden.  They do have legitimate reasons for being concerned about Cerberus.  But this is Shepard and even as a friend and leader, let alone a lover, those two should really be a bit more willing to listen to Shepard at the very least.  Instead you have what is effectively a non-interactive scene with them where they deliver their monologue and then exit stage left.
Liara, Ashely, Kaiden, and Wrex were all designated from the start by designer fiat to not be squadmates in ME2.  So really any problems with their presentation in the game aren't from their motivation (which is artifically dictated to begin with) but from the execution to convince the player they have at least a good or acceptable reason for not joining.
It does really make no character or story sense that Liara, Ashley, and Kaiden wouldn't follow Shepard given their past.  Especially considering how totally absurdly easy it is for Shepard to convince total strangers within seconds of meeting to agree to come along on a suicide mission against enigmatic aliens beyond the Omega 4 relay that no ship in recorded history has ever returned from.

I see no problem with Wrex, and I understand him not coming along. I even feel good about the reason they gave him. Shepard was dead, or so he thought. Krogan leave their dead where they fall, to let their bones be shown to remind others where they come from and where they go. He had no reason to track down a body. So he moved on. In his own way he is even doing something about the Reaper problem. He is trying to help his people, to keep them from dying out. And in so doing, will have an army to help when the Reapers come.

Ashley and Kaidan...to be fair...I can see them not trusting Cerberus and all. Shepard doesn't even trust them. But to just stand there and yell at Shepard, then leave...Shepard should be trusted more then that. However, even this is a reason, something real that we can understand, it is better then. "I don't want to right now, I'm busy."

It is way too easy to get random people to just wanna die for you. "We're gonna go kill these aliens no one knows anything about, they also blew up my old ship and killed me, they also have their own relay...and did I tell you no one that has gone thru it, has ever come back, oh, and by the way, we'll be working for Cerberus too." "Sure, that sounds fun! Sign me up right now!"

Meanwhile your old crew... "I hate you, go away, I don't trust you anymore, why didn't you call me?" "I know I spent the last two years waiting for you and all, but I'm just too busy now, come back later."

[JaylaClark]

Somebody1003 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Unata wrote...

Which ME1 armor do you all think Liara looks best in?

Predator Armour, I love seeing Liara in green.

She looks quite nice in any armor to me.

I can't remember which armor is the snow-or-urban-camo pattern, exactly, but that's my personal fave... but she looks good in just about anything, even Phoenix armor. :happy: