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[screwoffreg]

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

I think Liara will have a darker past than most here realize. Two years have gone by, and as I have said before, you do NOT become a powerful information broker without some skulls, innocent or guilty, being cracked. I think that will play into the drama of the whole situation. Can Shepard accept the person Liara is now, even though her intentions were good, that her hands may be stained with blood?

Honestly I don't think I am going to like whatever they do.  They went way too far down the "dark and edgy" path and now it would be just as contrived to turn back as it would be to have started it in the first place.

I think it makes her a more complex character, and her story could have the possibility of leading to ME 3's plot directly.  WIth that said, EA announced an ME "game", likely DLC, as part of the conference call.  Since they are citing it in their report, it probably is a substantial expansion, but the downside is it is not coming out until Spring of 2011.  If that is the Liara DLC, we may have a year yet to wait.

[Movodor]

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Movodor wrote...

Well, one has to consider that she did all-or most-of that skull crushing purely for shepard.

True, but Shepard died loving one kind of Liara, can he love one who, despite her effort on his behalf, may been irreversibly changed?

See, it just ticks me off what they did with the character.  Mac Walters better hope he is never within arms reach of me.

I think that was part of their aim, to see if you were going to stay faithful despite the changes. I didn't mind them, and my 'main' shepard that chose Liara will. After all, we haven't yet seen much of the details. Gah, the DLC can't get here quick enough.

[screwoffreg]

justinnstuff wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

I think Liara will have a darker past than most here realize. Two years have gone by, and as I have said before, you do NOT become a powerful information broker without some skulls, innocent or guilty, being cracked. I think that will play into the drama of the whole situation. Can Shepard accept the person Liara is now, even though her intentions were good, that her hands may be stained with blood?

You do have a point, and as they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.  I think it would add a lot to the story and make it way more interesting. You can't deny a few lines on the Illium scene. She wasn't too nice to the human when you walked into the room, she used a line from her mother, and the comics aren't done yet which may have the shocking ending. I can't wait to see how this turns out. I loved the Aribeth and Bastilla romances in KoToR and NWN, this may have the same twist.

Yeah, she is no longer the little scientist who spends her days on lonely ruins.  Whether it was the quest to root out the Observer, where she would willingly kill ANYONE you told her to or the fact her new demeanor is much more authoritative and self confident, there is a part of her that is far more "black" than before.  You can still see the cute side of her when Shepard surprises her, but she quickly squelches that and does not enter into that voice and personality again for the rest of the game.

[CanadAvenger]

screwoffreg wrote...

I think Liara will have a darker past than most here realize. Two years have gone by, and as I have said before, you do NOT become a powerful information broker without some skulls, innocent or guilty, being cracked. I think that will play into the drama of the whole situation. Can Shepard accept the person Liara is now, even though her intentions were good, that her hands may be stained with blood?

She did what needed to be done. Just think, if she never cracked any skulls, Shepard could be a DNA smoothie. Or worse, Liara could have been killed! O_o

We don't want that. If I was Shepard, I would look past the possible negative things that she has done, and consider it "for the greater good", and for Shepard's own well-being. If Liara never took any risks or killed the people that she did, the galaxy would be terrorized by a creepy human Reaper, and millions of humans would have been smoothie-fied in the process.

[Nozybidaj]

Movodor wrote...

I think that was part of their aim, to see if you were going to stay faithful despite the changes. I didn't mind them, and my 'main' shepard that chose Liara will. After all, we haven't yet seen much of the details. Gah, the DLC can't get here quick enough.

Well, it didn't work. All it did for me was ****** me off at BW.  Was it really necessary to turn her into some kind of cold blooded killer?  No, it was completely unecessary, and honestly it was uncalled for.  Sure have her get into some dark times, missing Shepard, etc, etc., but to fundamentally change the character so much?  It just doesn't sit well with me, it pulls me out of the story.  /sigh  Think I'm done.

[screwoffreg]

CanadAvenger wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

I think Liara will have a darker past than most here realize. Two years have gone by, and as I have said before, you do NOT become a powerful information broker without some skulls, innocent or guilty, being cracked. I think that will play into the drama of the whole situation. Can Shepard accept the person Liara is now, even though her intentions were good, that her hands may be stained with blood?

She did what needed to be done. Just think, if she never cracked any skulls, Shepard could be a DNA smoothie. Or worse, Liara could have been killed! O_o

We don't want that. If I was Shepard, I would look past the possible negative things that she has done, and consider it "for the greater good", and for Shepard's own well-being. If Liara never took any risks or killed the people that she did, the galaxy would be terrorized by a creepy human Reaper, and millions of humans would have been smoothie-fied in the process.

Maybe.  But one could make the same argument for giving Cerebrus the base as if it is all about defeating the Reapers, nothing else matters.  With that said, Cerebrus is itself a dark organization which has no problem torturing, killing, kidnapping, experimenting, or generally being unpleasant to further their aims.  After the Reapers are gone, such an organization AND Liara will have to deal with what they have become to fulfill their ends.

[mrbeavis19]

If Liara isn't back as a squadmate, love interest, and important part of the story in Mass Effect 3...I WILL NOT PLAY IT.

[screwoffreg]

Speculation and fanfiction are half the fun



I am holding off on writing my story as I feel within a few weeks, after the third comic, my entire plot line will be negated. Sigh...

[mrbeavis19]

justinnstuff wrote...

mrbeavis19 wrote...

If Liara isn't back as a squadmate, love interest, and important part of the story in Mass Effect 3...I WILL NOT PLAY IT.

None of us that post here in this thread regularly will be. We all want that.

I understand that haha. I'm just adding my opinion to the collective voice of this thread.

[CanadAvenger]

justinnstuff wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...


Well, it didn't work. All it did for me was ****** me off at BW.  Was it really necessary to turn her into some kind of cold blooded killer?  No, it was completely unecessary, and honestly it was uncalled for.  Sure have her get into some dark times, missing Shepard, etc, etc., but to fundamentally change the character so much?  It just doesn't sit well with me, it pulls me out of the story.  /sigh  Think I'm done.

We all could be wrong. None of us know. It's just speculation and nothing more.

Exactly, and IMO, she is so cold because of what she has done and lost to get Shepard back (Im sure this has been covered many times)

Let's think of an improbable real life example. Let's say that your parents get kidnapped, and you have a way to free them. But to do so you need to kill everyone in the kidnapper's little compound. After doing so, you get your parents back, but at the cost of many lives.
Sure, they were not innocent, but would you be living in a life of "sunshine and bunnies" after that experience? No. Likely not. You would be always on your guard, reliving those experiences every day, hoping that it never happens again.

Something like that is enough to change a person forever, and that is what we clearly see with Liara. She is changed, but much of her personality that we know and love remains, and can be seen if you pay close attention to her voice and body language in her conversations.

[screwoffreg]

Liara is probably the most realistic character, more so than the humans. Look at Shepard for example. He is involved in the deaths of thousands, limited emotional outlet. Modern soldiers break apart mentally from just SEEING death not even being involved in it. The sound of war, the smell, all of that can shut down the biggest, baddest mofo (look at Audie Murphy, Medal of Honor winner). Shepard kind of glides through it all...

For Liara to be effected by what she has had to do, even IF everyone deserved it, would make sense. You can't go from shy, nerdy scientist to putting hits out on people and perhaps killing them yourself and NOT be negatively effected mentally. Hell, she may even have PTSD if we are talking about realism. It is surprising NO ONE else does.

Very few games, if any, explore the real horror of the sort of violence we take for granted and "enjoy" on screen.  For a game to even touch upon that would be a huge milestone that would propel videogames for mere entertainment towards more of the "art' category.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 25 février 2010 - 10:12 .

[CanadAvenger]

screwoffreg wrote...

Liara is probably the most realistic character, more so than the humans. Look at Shepard for example. He is involved in the deaths of thousands, limited emotional outlet. Modern soldiers break apart mentally from just SEEING death not even being involved in it. The sound of war, the smell, all of that can shut down the biggest, baddest mofo (look at Audie Murphy, Medal of Honor winner). Shepard kind of glides through it all...

For Liara to be effected by what she has had to do, even IF everyone deserved it, would make sense. You can't go from shy, nerdy scientist to putting hits out on people and perhaps killing them yourself and NOT be negatively effected mentally. Hell, she may even have PTSD if we are talking about realism. It is surprising NO ONE else does.

Agreed 100% as said in my post above somewhere. Even though we live in a fantasy universe regarding Mass Effect, the touch of realism regarding Liara is actually very nice. I hated it at first, but now I understand. As you said reg, Modern soldiers break down at just SEEING death. I have experienced that second hand regarding my own father who was in Rwanda during the genocide. I won't go into detail, but I have seen some of the pictures that came from there, and I feel the emotional stress.

Anyways, the fact that Liara is exhibiting emotional stress makes the realism come home, and I like it. I think that more characters should show this, INCLUDING Shepard. That would make the emotional rollercoaster that is Mass Effect one hellova ride.

Modifié par CanadAvenger, 25 février 2010 - 10:14 .

[The BS Police]

screwoffreg wrote...

Movodor wrote...

Well, one has to consider that she did all-or most-of that skull crushing purely for shepard.

True, but Shepard died loving one kind of Liara, can he love one who, despite her effort on his behalf, may been irreversibly changed?

I don't really see how she changed as much as everyone else thinks she did. it's not like she never killed anyone else before her and Shepard met. She even made it clear that she has dealt with various Merc groups before the events of ME1 while investigating Prothean ruins.

In my opinion the only issue with her role in ME2 is the lack of dialogue options and of course the fact that she somehow can't talk with you about their love but yet she can talk about her mission of killing the Shadow Broker (Seriously Bioware, get a better writer). Her personality didn't do a complete 180, in many ways it was hinted at in the first game that she does have a more darker edge to her personality, she just doesn't show it.

But having everything taken away from her in a few weeks (Losing her Mother, losing Shepard, losing the Normandy, and losing her friend, possible losing Shepard again) can definitely set someone like her on a darker path.

Modifié par The BS Police, 25 février 2010 - 10:23 .

[screwoffreg]

She needed a Master Yoda...unfortunately that galaxy is far, far away...

[screwoffreg]

General Stubbs wrote...

Unfortunately, it all comes back to why the hell does Shepard not try and at least comfort her and talk to her about what happened, that is what makes it feel unrealistic.
I agree, it makes perfect sense for her to be traumatized and completely and utterly devestated about what happened. It is also nice that through certain dialogue options, we can still se the caring and loving Liara.
I am assuming the writers knew what they did and are planning to fix it in DLC, they must have seen themselves (as they wrote it) that it makes no sense to have Shepard not care while Liara is suffering.

That is what ticks me off the most.  I don't know if it was intentional or just a sloppy oversight but here is a woman Shepard loved and confided in and as she suffers, as HE/SHE suffers (Shepard), there is no option to acknowledge or even offer some comfort.  Hell, you could even hug Tali when her father died...but Liara is just left static, a machine to hand out quests and info with little else.  I really hope that, even if it sucked, this was done on purpose and not just bad writing.

[MoSa09]

screwoffreg wrote...

General Stubbs wrote...

Unfortunately, it all comes back to why the hell does Shepard not try and at least comfort her and talk to her about what happened, that is what makes it feel unrealistic.
I agree, it makes perfect sense for her to be traumatized and completely and utterly devestated about what happened. It is also nice that through certain dialogue options, we can still se the caring and loving Liara.
I am assuming the writers knew what they did and are planning to fix it in DLC, they must have seen themselves (as they wrote it) that it makes no sense to have Shepard not care while Liara is suffering.

That is what ticks me off the most.  I don't know if it was intentional or just a sloppy oversight but here is a woman Shepard loved and confided in and as she suffers, as HE/SHE suffers (Shepard), there is no option to acknowledge or even offer some comfort.  Hell, you could even hug Tali when her father died...but Liara is just left static, a machine to hand out quests and info with little else.  I really hope that, even if it sucked, this was done on purpose and not just bad writing.

Actually, i would prefer if this bulls**t happened through bad writing. If this crap was done on purpose to make the relationship rocky and push the players towards the new romances, the writer responsible for that should be fired, cause he definetively has no idea what good writing is all about.
Now if his happened by accident and they were all too stuck in there workload and didn't realize who that feels from an outside perspective: things like that happen, learn from your mistake, move on don't repeat. I don't have much to criticize on ME 2, but Shepard's reaction and the fact that Liara can't talk openly (except death threat's', her mission, her goals, how she killed her assistant, the SB) is just ridiculous

Modifié par MoSa09, 25 février 2010 - 10:34 .