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[Unato]

well the hammerhead just got announced, looks like GDC will be something else or absolutely nothing =p

[speedy111280]

I was thinking about Liara's quest to rescue Shepard's body from the Shadow Broker earlier today at work and a thought occurred to me. Everyone has been talking about Shepard being turned into goo for the Terminator!Reaper but what if that's not why they wanted Shepard? They have plenty of human colonies to abduct for that. We know Cerberus has the tech to bring Shep back to life so of course the Reapers would as well. So what if they wanted Shep's body to make Shep another Saren? Saren was almost successful in helping the Reapers wipe everything out and if it wasn't for Shep he would have. So Liara may have singlehandedly prevented the Reapers from wiping everyone out so soon after Sovereign failed and managed to make it possible for the one person who can stop the Reapers to come back to life.

[Unato]

justinnstuff wrote...

With it out of the way, perhaps they can tell us about a special little DLC?

actually checking wiki GDC is from March 9, that's 5 days after Redemption #3 comes out... ah yea I'm prob getting my hopes up

@speedy I think the idea is interesting but indoctrination takes a long time, would it actually work? the reapers seems desperate after Saren was killed off

Modifié par Unato, 26 février 2010 - 01:15 .

[JPfanner]

speedy111280 wrote...



I was thinking about Liara's quest to rescue Shepard's body from the Shadow Broker earlier today at work and a thought occurred to me. Everyone has been talking about Shepard being turned into goo for the Terminator!Reaper but what if that's not why they wanted Shepard? They have plenty of human colonies to abduct for that. We know Cerberus has the tech to bring Shep back to life so of course the Reapers would as well. So what if they wanted Shep's body to make Shep another Saren? Saren was almost successful in helping the Reapers wipe everything out and if it wasn't for Shep he would have. So Liara may have singlehandedly prevented the Reapers from wiping everyone out so soon after Sovereign failed and managed to make it possible for the one person who can stop the Reapers to come back to life.

Yeah, I've wondered this too. Especially if they were making that human reaper to replace Sovereign for opening the Citadel relay, they'd need an inside person at the console or whatever it was that Saren was doing in there. It'd be good for misinformation in any case to have ReaperShepard strolling around playing down all the Reaper rumors.

Getting turned over to the Collectors was definitely not going to be Shepard's benefit no matter what they had planned. I think it's crazy you even have an option to be mad at Liara for going through all she did to recover your body and the chance to have you back. No idea why that dialog option was considered more vital than one showing genuine gratitude and appreciation beyond the "My mission is important" one.

[Driveninhifi]

JPfanner wrote...
Yeah, I've wondered this too. Especially if they were making that human reaper to replace Sovereign for opening the Citadel relay, they'd need an inside person at the console or whatever it was that Saren was doing in there. It'd be good for misinformation in any case to have ReaperShepard strolling around playing down all the Reaper rumors.
Getting turned over to the Collectors was definitely not going to be Shepard's benefit no matter what they had planned. I think it's crazy you even have an option to be mad at Liara for going through all she did to recover your body and the chance to have you back. No idea why that dialog option was considered more vital than one showing genuine gratitude and appreciation beyond the "My mission is important" one.

I get the feeling that they didn't include the option because it kind of ruins the whole rocky relationship angle. I mean, she clearly still cares very deeply for Shepard and she really has no reason to be mad. If Shepard says "I love you, thank you," then she pretty much has to respond in the affirmative as well.
It's too bad, because making her face the internal conflict between her love for Shepard and desire to rediscover their relationship vs her guilt/mission would have been really interesting. Which wins out? They could easily write this so she wants to come, but her conscience won't let her. Also, if she discovers the Shadow Broker is working closely with the Collectors (which is definitely implied), it would be to both their benefit for her to keep working on undermining/stopping him.
It's pretty unbelievable she'd let Shepard walk out of her office to get killed again without saying anything though.

One thing I definitely thought was missing: she feels so horrible about giving the body up and was so focused on getting ahold of it in the first place. I would expect her to obsessively track Cerberus' progress with Shepard over the past 2 years. Shepard's return should be a really intense moment for her - she needs to be really hoping it goes well but also terrified of Shepard's reaction. The game only halfway shows this; more dialogue on what it really means for her internally would have been very compelling.

[Slakky]

speedy111280 wrote...

I was thinking about Liara's quest to rescue Shepard's body from the Shadow Broker earlier today at work and a thought occurred to me. Everyone has been talking about Shepard being turned into goo for the Terminator!Reaper but what if that's not why they wanted Shepard? They have plenty of human colonies to abduct for that. We know Cerberus has the tech to bring Shep back to life so of course the Reapers would as well. So what if they wanted Shep's body to make Shep another Saren? Saren was almost successful in helping the Reapers wipe everything out and if it wasn't for Shep he would have. So Liara may have singlehandedly prevented the Reapers from wiping everyone out so soon after Sovereign failed and managed to make it possible for the one person who can stop the Reapers to come back to life.

There's cut audio further back in the thread (at the top maybe?) where Liara explains that the Collectors wanted Shephard's body so they could figure out how he/she survived the Prothean beacon and was able to make sense of its information.  Apparently they had no particular interest in Sovereign's death or any of that other stuff.

[JPfanner]

@Driveinhifi



I think the Liara presentation in ME2 is like some rorschach cutout. There is so little and it mostly defined by it's absence and the meaning we as players are carrying with us. I don't think there is any subtley or nuance in the encounter beyond what we read into it. The dialog tree is bugged; Liara, Tali, Garrus, and Miranda all ignore each other. It was chopped up from the original with the Legion/Liara intro, edited up again with Feron and the comics, probably chopped up some to make it "fair" compared to the Horizon encounter.

I know you've personally gone over a lot of it, I have, and so have a lot of other people in this thread and others. It is just frustrating because I am not really mad at Bioware. I'm disappointed and it is especially aggravating because all it would take is a few lines of dialog or even a freaking email. Liara can't come with you; Liara is busy doing something she thinks is important; Liara went through hell to bring you back from the dead. I get that, just give me a chance to express my gratitude and to let her know I WILL be coming back through that Omega-4 relay for her. Even if the relationship is supposed to be "rocky" or whatever Bioware considers it when two people sit there like obtuse mutes, Shepard should still be given the chance to express those feelings.

[maikanix]

Liara bump

[ratzerman]

I hate it when this thread gets all serious. We really need to follow the example of those folks over in the Kaidan thread. They have even less to talk about than we do, yet they're always in a good mood. We've got a love interest that doesn't hate us, an ongoing comic book, and maybe even some DLC. We need happiness, people! Positivity! Puppies! Kittens!

[Yeled]

JPfanner wrote...

@Driveinhifi

I think the Liara presentation in ME2 is like some rorschach cutout. There is so little and it mostly defined by it's absence and the meaning we as players are carrying with us. I don't think there is any subtley or nuance in the encounter beyond what we read into it. The dialog tree is bugged; Liara, Tali, Garrus, and Miranda all ignore each other. It was chopped up from the original with the Legion/Liara intro, edited up again with Feron and the comics, probably chopped up some to make it "fair" compared to the Horizon encounter.
I know you've personally gone over a lot of it, I have, and so have a lot of other people in this thread and others. It is just frustrating because I am not really mad at Bioware. I'm disappointed and it is especially aggravating because all it would take is a few lines of dialog or even a freaking email. Liara can't come with you; Liara is busy doing something she thinks is important; Liara went through hell to bring you back from the dead. I get that, just give me a chance to express my gratitude and to let her know I WILL be coming back through that Omega-4 relay for her. Even if the relationship is supposed to be "rocky" or whatever Bioware considers it when two people sit there like obtuse mutes, Shepard should still be given the chance to express those feelings.

I think this just about sums up my feelings, and I'm impressed with how insightful your post is.  Though I'm not sure an email would have done the trick.  I'm still not sure why Bioware doesn't get that people get emotionally invested in their characters because they really do a good job with them.  ME2 and Dragon Age Awakenings both make the same mistake:  They include the main character but not all the things around her to which we've grown attached. 

I've no doubt that most of the ME2 characters will get little more than cameo's in ME3 because any of them could be dead.  Unless Bioware learns by then.  But they probably won't.  And then a whole new host of fans will be unhappy.

'course I won't care about them if Liara is back!  Screw 'em. 

[Yeled]

ratzerman wrote...

I hate it when this thread gets all serious. We really need to follow the example of those folks over in the Kaidan thread. They have even less to talk about than we do, yet they're always in a good mood. We've got a love interest that doesn't hate us, an ongoing comic book, and maybe even some DLC. We need happiness, people! Positivity! Puppies! Kittens!

How do they do it?  Is there something inherently better about Kaiden's presentation that decreases their sense of loss?

[maikanix]

Yeled wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

I hate it when this thread gets all serious. We really need to follow the example of those folks over in the Kaidan thread. They have even less to talk about than we do, yet they're always in a good mood. We've got a love interest that doesn't hate us, an ongoing comic book, and maybe even some DLC. We need happiness, people! Positivity! Puppies! Kittens!

How do they do it?  Is there something inherently better about Kaiden's presentation that decreases their sense of loss?

Could be because Kaiden hates them.
That is, they have a reason for why he stays behind. We still feel a little lost. Always having to guess.

[Unato]

last I read it was something about DA:O... hmm maybe I go create a mage call Liara rofl...

Modifié par Unato, 26 février 2010 - 03:58 .

[implodinggoat]

Well looking on the bright side Bioware certainly hasn't done anything to permanently ruin Liara's character. She just got a really crummy cameo in ME2; but there's nothing to keep her from returning to form for ME3. Although I'm not sure if being cute, lovable and brilliant is enough to compete with the charm of Jack telling me to go **** myself every five minutes.

[Sharn01]

Kind of why I am keeping a low profile, since I am pessimistic, I still visit and read all the post's though.

[JPfanner]

Yeled wrote...
I think this just about sums up my feelings, and I'm impressed with how insightful your post is.  Though I'm not sure an email would have done the trick.  I'm still not sure why Bioware doesn't get that people get emotionally invested in their characters because they really do a good job with them.  ME2 and Dragon Age Awakenings both make the same mistake:  They include the main character but not all the things around her to which we've grown attached. 

I've no doubt that most of the ME2 characters will get little more than cameo's in ME3 because any of them could be dead.  Unless Bioware learns by then.  But they probably won't.  And then a whole new host of fans will be unhappy.

'course I won't care about them if Liara is back!  Screw 'em. 

Thank you, I mentioned an email because that could be done with the minimal amount of effort.  Like say, tagged along on a patch or other DLC.  I haven't really seen anyone asking for anything unreasonable.
I agree about the characters Bioware makes.  Baldur's Gate feels different to me than Icewind Dale because of these unique characters that share your adventures and really define the experience.  I'm trying not to think about Dragon Age: Awakenings.  Continuing my adventures without Leliana makes no sense to me; continuing them in Orlaise without her makes a negative amount of sense, which hurts my head.  It just wouldn't feel like my character or my adventures without her there since she became such a defining element of the experience.  And Liara does the same thing for what feels like Mass Efffect to me.
I have absolutely no idea what they're going to do for ME3.  It just seems like a huge mess with all the potential dead people and things like Grunt being in the tank, Tali being exiled, and Legion sold off to Cerberus.  Squadmates have something like 5-7 conversations if they're important.  Doing all that work for everyone certainly doesn't seem likely.  Shepard also has to save the galaxy from the Reapers in all of this.
I'm generally positive looking forward, but need to scowl and shake my fist a bit every so often at what happened in ME2 with the handling of the ME1 LI's.

[Unato]

mmm awakening will be interesting, I have it on pre order, it's been a while since Bioware had an xpack come out but yea the lack of LI continuation is kinda bummer. I just started a mage elf called Liara for amusement, for all the QQing ppl do about not having more unique armor, I just realised my original mage in DA:O wore her starting robes from start to finish... now that's sad

[AndroLeonidas]

Did anyone notice that Nassana was about to tell Shepard something before Thane whacked her? She was going to give him information in exchange for not killing her. Interesting really. Perhaps she knew somethign about Liara?



Anyone else catch that?

[Unato]

she was? I thought she was offering $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in exchange for her life