50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Unata]

rynluna wrote...

Vote for our beauty!
social.bioware.com/1471476/polls/4343/

Done

[Unata]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

rynluna wrote...

Vote for our beauty!
social.bioware.com/1471476/polls/4343/

Just voted, and Liara was winning! Awesome!

Hope she stays in the lead  Good night Liara fans, my pillow is hollering at me

[Derumiel]

rynluna wrote...

Vote for our beauty!
social.bioware.com/1471476/polls/4343/

Done.

[JPfanner]

I think Liara should get annoyed with jerk Shepard. It doesn't change the worth of what she did, or that Shepard is important to save the galaxy. But I definitely think for Liara's own sake that she needs to have enough room for personal growth to recognize the fact that the savior of the galaxy is personally a total ass.

I mean it is swell and all that Liara has enough fondness for every Shepard to recover the body and to be forgiving enough to overlook personality faults in the Illium reunion. But at some point there has to be a division between the different Shepards. Just like Tali can be an LI, your friend, or you can alienate her by turning in that evidence.

[AndroLeonidas]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Driveninhifi wrote...

I don't think she's angry at Shepard, she's angry at not being able to say anything. Afraid of what will happen if she does, etc.

Really though, once her apology is out in the open there needs to be a more conversation options with her where you can actually TALK about what she did. It feels really artificial to exclude that - it's way too obvious they are trying to hold it back and keep the player in the dark (or have stuff to talk about in DLC or ME3).
It makes the conversation feel completely unnatural though.

Driven what I've always thought is that they deliberately prevent Shepard from properly comforting Liara, or bringing up the relationship at all because they want to maintain the status quo for the benefit of the Liara DLC. They need for Liara to still be emotionally tormented, guilty and sorrowful for her DLC mission because that's where they want Shep to finally have the ability to comfort and console Liara, and help ease her pain. They also want to have the proper romantic reconciliation and rekindling happen in the DLC mission too. Due to this, they have to maintain the status quo of "Liara is haunted by her guilt and is emotionally tormented from what happened, and Shepard is unsure of their relationship". It's an incredibly contrived way of doing it, and smacks of ****** poor writing, but that's what they've had to do in order to avoid spoiling Redemption and to maintain the status quo for the DLC.

They threw in the scene where Liara opens up to Shepard to make it obvious that Liara still cares for, is devoted to and loves Shepard deeply, and they articificially stop you from comforting her because they want that to happen in the Liara DLC.

I truly, truly, truly hope this is the case. I've started two new characters in ME1... a male shep and my first female shep... gonna get them all to level 60 and then bring them over to ME2.

By the time I get done with that I'm hoping the DLC or expansion is out to reconcile love affair with Liara. I'm leaning more and more towards your idea that TIM is somehow manipulating her. After playing ME1 again it just seems out of character for her to be so timid in expressing herself. Especially to Shepard. This is a man(woman) she went through hell for to retrieve their body for the outside chance she could have her true love back. 

"I couldn't let you go!!" Wow!

Is that an admission of undying love or what??
 
When that person you did so much for shows up in person and you do nothing... it smacks of some outside influence forcing her to act in that way. And unless some miraculous ending in Issue 4 comes where she falls for feron... there is really only one thing keeping her from expressing her love for shep. That is TIM and some threat or situation he is holding over her head.

As for the DLC or expansion... I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high. I really liked the Kasumi DLC... but we need something far more indepth to explain away things with Liara. She is not a new character... she is an established character and in most cases a love interest. There needs to be indepth reasoning and interaction to bring that to a close so they can move forward. I also think that she will play a huge role in mE3 because I don't think the Prothean angle is fully dead. There is to much still hanging in the air about them... and she is the resident expert. and like Les... I want my time with Liara to be able to hold her and comfort her among other things. S**t... you could do that for Tali in ME2 and she wasn;t even an LI yet. Better have that for Liara.

Given Bioware's track record I'm keeping my hopes up... but not too high I think. I know without closure to her storyline as a LI in a way that fits within that plot... I won't be buying ME3. She is far too important a character to be delegated to a NPC. and if she is a Squad member, which I EXPECT, then she better be your LI.

[Ulathar]

rynluna wrote...

Vote for our beauty!
social.bioware.com/1471476/polls/4343/

done
Liara is winning - yay

[JPfanner]

It isn't something that is just limited to Liara really. I remember I saw a Youtube video of Shepard talking to Ashley and picking the Renegade options. It was just painful to watch how artificial Ashley's responses were, how she kept talking to Shepard, either ignoring or passing over the constant stream of insults. When any sane person would have either stopped talking to Shepard completely or told them to go to hell.

It's like I said yesterday about every choice not leading to branching consequences, but instead converging onto the same path. Does it matter how Shepard acts in that Liara interaction? It even seems the consensus on doing her missions was that doing them correctly, not doing them at all, or doing the Observer one wrong all were going to end up the same in the end later on.

[Sakhalin]

Just voted for Liara!

[Noxis6]

JPfanner wrote...

I think Liara should get annoyed with jerk Shepard. It doesn't change the worth of what she did, or that Shepard is important to save the galaxy. But I definitely think for Liara's own sake that she needs to have enough room for personal growth to recognize the fact that the savior of the galaxy is personally a total ass.
I mean it is swell and all that Liara has enough fondness for every Shepard to recover the body and to be forgiving enough to overlook personality faults in the Illium reunion. But at some point there has to be a division between the different Shepards. Just like Tali can be an LI, your friend, or you can alienate her by turning in that evidence.

Well first to be fair,if you take Shepards perspective the Illium reunion must be quite frustrating for him/her,I mean s/he doesnt know what Liara did unless you pick that one well hidden option,hell the only thing Shepard gets ever told about her is that she works for the SB now,which actually is never really played upon either.

But again the whole scene is so flawed,there are enough opportunities to clash with Liara or to comfort her but its never picked up on,its just scratching on the surface but never goes deeper

[Ulathar]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

A very good reason for Liara breaking off the kiss, and shaking her head like that, is because she's absolutely terrified Shepard will hate her for handing the corpse over to Cerberus. That's why, on an emotional level, she's keeping her distance. Liara is afraid to be too intimate.

With the kiss, remember that Liara only kissed Shepard and showed physical intimacy when she was completely sure of herself, Shepard, their love for each other, and trusted Shepard enough. She even says it herself: "I have never been more sure of anything in my life." In ME2, Liara isn't completely comfortable with herself, is unhappy and guilty, and is deathly afraid that the person she loves will hate her when he/she finds out what happened. It's testament to Liara's love for Shepard that she still kisses her anyway, despite all of her pain, guilt, torment and being unsure whether Shep hates her or not. She can't resist giving the person she loves and adores a big smooch. Heartwarming, and also quite sad in a way that we're never given the opportunity to comfort, console and reassure Liara.

That's a very good explanation of the situation. This is also part of the reason why I'm so pissed at Shepard. Once Liara opened up you merely get to say something like 'it's all good. no worries'. This would have the opportunity to make this one of the most emotional and one of the best moments of the entire game, maybe the entire trilogy. But no... <_<

[JPfanner]

Noxis6 wrote...
Well first to be fair,if you take Shepards perspective the Illium reunion must be quite frustrating for him/her,I mean s/he doesnt know what Liara did unless you pick that one well hidden option,hell the only thing Shepard gets ever told about her is that she works for the SB now,which actually is never really played upon either.

But again the whole scene is so flawed,there are enough opportunities to clash with Liara or to comfort her but its never picked up on,its just scratching on the surface but never goes deeper

It's only frustrating in what you aren't permitted to say by Bioware.  If you're Liara's lover, or even paid any attention to her in ME1 then you should know that she can be trusted.  Your only response to TIM saying she can't be trusted is to immediately begin to think of ways in which TIM could most satisfyingly be killed.
There are certainly enough opportunities to clash with Liara, but there aren't enough opportunities to comfort Liara.  Not even close to enough, more like none, unless you count total crap like "My mission is important."

[Noxis6]

JPfanner wrote...
It's only frustrating in what you aren't permitted to say by Bioware.  If you're Liara's lover, or even paid any attention to her in ME1 then you should know that she can be trusted.  Your only response to TIM saying she can't be trusted is to immediately begin to think of ways in which TIM could most satisfyingly be killed.
There are certainly enough opportunities to clash with Liara, but there aren't enough opportunities to comfort Liara.  Not even close to enough, more like none, unless you count total crap like "My mission is important."

As said the scene is flawed,in case of the whole TIM line it could have played some role in the initial reaction of meeting,they could the player choose to let Shepard act on mistrust because of TIM lies or maybe with concern,wondering how she got into it or if the SB was forcing her,in any case it doesnt happen.
As for the clashes yes there are some opportunites for that but they are not really satisfying if you want to call it that,as said its always scratching on the surface and never going deep enough.
I agree though the "My mission is important" line really made me facepalm,that was really like,thats all Shepard can think of not even a thank you.

[JPfanner]

Noxis6 wrote...
As said the scene is flawed,in case of the whole TIM line it could have played some role in the initial reaction of meeting,they could the player choose to let Shepard act on mistrust because of TIM lies or maybe with concern,wondering how she got into it or if the SB was forcing her,in any case it doesnt happen.
As for the clashes yes there are some opportunites for that but they are not really satisfying if you want to call it that,as said its always scratching on the surface and never going deep enough.
I agree though the "My mission is important" line really made me facepalm,that was really like,thats all Shepard can think of not even a thank you.

I know there is a line on the dialog wheel when Liara first mentions the Shadow Broker that says something like "You work for him?" or something like that.  I forget exactly what it says as the option and haven't ever picked it myself.  So I have no idea what it leads to, but there is at least one option to reference what TIM told you in some way.
I think there are too many clashes to begin with, especially so since there aren't any positive supportive options.    It doesn't even make any sense you can argue with Liara about her being a selfless friend who saved your body and made it possible for you to even be alive again.  The only way to go deeper with those would be to make Shepard look even more selfish and irrational than they already are.
I think the whole scene is screwed up, not only because of the positive things that are missing, but also because of the inclusion of the negative critical things.  I don't see the player being able to do things like ask Wrex why he is wasting his time uniting a bunch of barbaric thugs.

[Noxis6]

JPfanner wrote...
I know there is a line on the dialog wheel when Liara first mentions the Shadow Broker that says something like "You work for him?" or something like that.  I forget exactly what it says as the option and haven't ever picked it myself.  So I have no idea what it leads to, but there is at least one option to reference what TIM told you in some way.
I think there are too many clashes to begin with, especially so since there aren't any positive supportive options.    It doesn't even make any sense you can argue with Liara about her being a selfless friend who saved your body and made it possible for you to even be alive again.  The only way to go deeper with those would be to make Shepard look even more selfish and irrational than they already are.
I think the whole scene is screwed up, not only because of the positive things that are missing, but also because of the inclusion of the negative critical things.  I don't see the player being able to do things like ask Wrex why he is wasting his time uniting a bunch of barbaric thugs.

I picked that line once,its not that special she doesnt even get upset or anything,she just tells you that she wants to kill the SB.
I say it again without that one line,Shepard has no idea Liara did that for him/her,so in Shepards eyes the whole scene must be damn frustrating,Liara seems to have changed completely and seems to be wound up in her vendetta with the SB for some reason,so there  is room for arguments as to were they would lead there are again options whether to beat her up verbally or break Liara out of her shell.
Also the fact that for Shepard there were no two years in between ME1 and ME2 could play a role in this.
But in the end it all comes down to so many opportunities and so much wasted potential

[Crimmsonwind]

Thought I would come out of hiding for a moment to say: Today's the 7th! Redemption #4!

See y'all in two weeks when I actually receive my copy in the mail. 'Til then, I'm going into hiding to avoid spoilers.

Although I will be keeping my ears and eyes open for Liara news. <3<3

Modifié par Crimmsonwind, 07 avril 2010 - 09:35 .

[JPfanner]

I agree that within the context of solely what Shepard knows up to that point that the interaction with Liara doesn't make much sense until you find out that her vendetta against the Shadow Broker is based on her recovering your body.  But that doesn't change the fact that she fought by your side against Saren, her own mother, and Sovereign.  She has more than earned the benefit of the doubt.  I think that should have been reflected by Bioware in her interactions.  Just like it is reflected in Garrus, Tali, and Wrex's.

She tells you everything she knows about Samara and Thane.  Says she can't come with you because she has something important to do right now (Wrex and Tali say this as well).  You either trust her judgement or you don't.  Arguing with Liara is like the Horizon scene with Ashley/Kaiden in reverse, except while they have valid reasons for distrusting Cerberus, Shepard is throwing a tantrum because Liara isn't jumping through hoops when Shepard snaps their fingers.

If they're not going to put in supportive options, then they should have left out the critical ones until after she's at least explained herself.  At least then Shepard wouldn't be jumping the gun on being an ass.  Which would also require the dialog tree to work correctly for that line.  It just makes Shepard look egomaniacal to me to be whining about someone having something important to them that isn't what Shepard thinks should be important to them.

I just think it was hypocritical in the extreme of Bioware to let Shepard kick Liara but not comfort her. 

Modifié par JPfanner, 07 avril 2010 - 09:48 .

[bjdbwea]

Maybe that was supposed to be the supportive options. After all it's considered paragon to go around and threaten to break people's legs.

More seriously, at some points the proper dialogue options seems to be simply missing indeed. Especially at the key point where she says she's sorry and couldn't let go. There's just no selection on the upper side of the dialogue wheel, just a neutral and a negative reaction. It is ridiculous.

Seeing as we still have no reaction whatsoever from the developers, it's apparent they know how bad and indefensible a job they've done. Question is, will they learn from it and will their superiors allow it.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 07 avril 2010 - 10:03 .

[JPfanner]

It just gets on my nerves that as it is presented, the interactions with Liara consist of treating her like a bland associate or as a doormat for Shepard's ego. You can't even be a friend, let alone a lover.

If it is that way because of the comic or DLC then it doesn't really make me any less annoyed with what I got out of the box, because I know the difference between mitigating and contributing.

All I can do is be annoyed, and hope at some point I can give Liara the hugs and smoochies she deserves in spite of what happened initially.