Ce sujet est fermé
The Angry One wrote...
I may not be as vocal as I am with Kaidan, but Liara is dear to me too so I feel your pain, guys.
Still I'll always go by the mantra of the games > external media, and if the external media contradicts the games, then the external media is wrong. The end!
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Unata wrote...
:wub:
Modifié par Derumiel, 07 avril 2010 - 05:49 .
Guest_Cartims_*
The Angry One wrote...
I may not be as vocal as I am with Kaidan, but Liara is dear to me too so I feel your pain, guys.
Still I'll always go by the mantra of the games > external media, and if the external media contradicts the games, then the external media is wrong. The end!
The Angry One wrote...
I may not be as vocal as I am with Kaidan, but Liara is dear to me too so I feel your pain, guys.
Still I'll always go by the mantra of the games > external media, and if the external media contradicts the games, then the external media is wrong. The end!
Guest_General Stubbs_*
Modifié par General Stubbs, 07 avril 2010 - 05:50 .
vigna wrote...
I just read the comic...slowly. There is no Feron romance. tops she is guilty that she misjudged feron, but hell he triple crossed her. He did sacrifice himself for Shep and Liara though. She feels guilty for losing Feron, but more she feels she has , indeed, lost Shephard. She thinks he is gone...gone...gone...dead or as good as dead.Cartims wrote...
LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Stop knee jerking everyone. Please.
There is no romance with Feron. Just calm the fcuk down.
But there's no
romance with shep so WTF
When he re-enters her life 2 years later, well, I'm sure she didn't know what to feel.
I'm sure loving and losing someone is worse than just losing them. She loves Shep, but damn, she can't adjust her emotions or accept them when they see each other again. She tries the kiss, but the guilt of Feron comes up, the guilt of her wanting to let his body die.
Liara is a bundle of guilt and loss. liara is a truly decent person--one of the only ones in ME so far. She is troubled , so let her have her time to deal with her emotions. the comic isn't that bad and it doesn't contadict anything that we all hoped for anyway.
Modifié par screwoffreg, 07 avril 2010 - 05:51 .
Cartims wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
I may not be as vocal as I am with Kaidan, but Liara is dear to me too so I feel your pain, guys.
Still I'll always go by the mantra of the games > external media, and if the external media contradicts the games, then the external media is wrong. The end!
I'll drink to that!
Guest_Cartims_*
General Stubbs wrote...
No clue if this will help anyone, but I just put my thoughts on why there will still be substantial Liara DLC.
Okay, so I know the comic was a bit disappointing, but what can you expect them to put on 20 pages? A masterpiece beyond our wildest dreams? I would have loved it if they were able to do that, but the fact of the matter is, it is unrealistic.
It can take me thousands of words to explain neurological process in detail, I highly doubt BioWare would ever be able to fit the complex emotional feelings Liara is going through in four, 20 page comics.
They did do a great job of it in the reunion though, Liara’s body language, voice, and facial expressions perfectly match someone who has been through emotional hell for two years.
If you look at what Liara said the right way and not just take it a face value, it means she is concerned about Shepard’s body and does not want her to come back as a monster. Mentally or physically.
It is actually a good thing there isn’t too much information in the comic books, otherwise BioWare would have less information to work with in the Liara DLC.
That is why the ending of things can usually be lackluster, if the writer(s) (or BioWare in this case) is/are thinking about continuing it in some way, than they don’t want to give people too much.
To start, the DLC right now is not a bad indicator to Liara's DLC.
Ok so, Zaeed is a Merc, what would we even talk to him about other than war stories? Shepard wouldn't really say anything else to him but, "Well, that sounds interesting,” even if she could talk to him.
Kasumi is a thief and a Merc, what would we talk to her about but her thieving adventures? Shepard wouldn't really say anything but, "Ok, I am glad you have all this neat stuff,” even if she could talk to her.
The whole point of Mercs is that they are even more expendable than your regular soldiers, as long as you have money, you have extra bodies (Mercs). BioWare followed that to the f*cking point, why the hell would you care about some guys you hired for the sole purpose of fighting and dying for money.
I already guessed they would put out a character costume pack, what is so different about that from buying a theme for your Xbox? If you want to talk about wasting money of costumes, look a Dead or Alive: Xtreme 2, now that DLC is a freaking waste of money.
We already talked about the Firewalker pack and it being a tank. A tank is used to kill people, no matter what. There is obviously no relationship with the tank, Shepard isn't that desperate... (She does stare at Liara picture 24/7 when I am not playing, I am sure of it).
Even the weapons and armor packs. They just threw that in there for something extra, it doesn't mean anything. Hell, it was free, I didn’t use any of it because of the lack of a helmet toggle, but what are you gonna do.
I am not angry at anyone or anything, I just don’t see how any of this indicates bad Liara DLC.
A lot of companies have put out this kind of cheap stuff, then come out with something great. Sometimes it is just as simple as keeping people interested in the game so they will buy your major item later (Liara DLC).
EA may be greedy SoBs, but they can smell money a mile away and won't let it slip through their grasp. EA will not make BioWare put out something crappy for the thought of saving money on development, they aren't that stupid, they know that cheap isn't always the best way to go.
Companies invariably lose money in the long run if they go the cheap route.
BioWare isn’t in the business of screwing over customers (last time I checked, they weren’t at hedge fund status yet). Their customers are their lifeblood, if they lose any trust whatsoever, they lose sales. Maybe not immediately (they probably would though) but in the future, I assure you, they would lose sales.
Even GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony story was created off of a side mission for the actual GTA IV storyline, did anyone think that would be possible? The actual story for TBoGT is about one thing (diamonds) and they made it 15 hours long. And it is actually worth $20.
If RockStar can make an entire Expansion about getting diamonds back, how is that not indicative of BioWare being able to create at least a 5 - 7 hour DLC about Liara and Shepard's relationship and stopping/catching the worst man in the galaxy.
RockStar made a lot of money off of TBoGt (and the other Expansion), they proved that if you go all out, you can make a profit. They set an example I am positive EA and BioWare both see and realize.
With everything BioWare has put into Liara and her love for Shepard, they would actually have to try their very hardest to screw it up.
I haven’t finished DA:O yet, but from what people are saying Awakenings doesn’t have any squadmates in it from the original game.
Although this is definitely a shame (I probably won’t see Leliana then. Whoo Hoo for BioWare including a f/f romance in that game. Or else my character would have to stare at herself in a mirror and curse the men that keep hitting on her), the core of Awakenings shows that BioWare can make a good DLC without screwing it up to a great extent.
Now, BioWare has already setup Liara as the main character of the DLC and Shepard and her relationship with Shepard has already been recognized as a major part in the DLC.
Well, Shepard and Liara’s relationship will be part of the core experience of the Liara DLC (no matter if you romanced her or not, it will be a major part. She seems to think of you like family if you didn’t romance her. From what people have said, because I can’t play ME without romancing Liara), so even if BioWare follows the DA section of BioWare’s path and ignores some of the less crucial elements, the great emotions and romance between Liara and Shepard have to be there no matter what. Without those emotions, there is no story.
Another thing with TboGT, the actually GTA IV story about the diamonds just ended, absolutely no mention of it or anything that happened after a certain point, nothing. No Biker Gang who stole 2 million dollars is mentioned again, the guy who interrupted the diamond deal is not ever mentioned again, nothing.
Doesn’t that remind you of something? The Liara situation is set up the same way, after two conversations, it is like Shepard and Liara never talked to each other.
But ask yourselves, why did BioWare have a mission for Shepard to get information for Liara? What possible purpose would that serve? BioWare could have easily just given us one short conversation with Liara and left it at that. So why did they have us get that information for her?
I don’t know about you, but it seems like a lead-in for DLC to me, Liara would call you or email you to come see her immediately because she has found some extremely important information and she cannot tell you unless you come in person.
All the pieces to the puzzle are there, it looks like everyone important at EA and BW gave their approval for an emotional, romantic Liara storyline. If they didn't, the comics would just be about Liara killing everyone and getting Shepard's body back while her demeanor is stone cold. Why does she care so much about Shepard if BioWare wasn't planning something?
Even though the reunion was lacking, there are a lot of emotions from Liara, the fact that Shepard just sits there like she is deaf and blind means that someone in marketing had the bright idea to hold off any emotions from Shepard until the comics were done and the DLC was released.
People in marketing do really weird things that make perfect sense financially, but not logically.
BioWare would have noticed that the one scene (besides Conrad) in the game that feels unfinished that extent if it was an oversight, they probably would have fixed it in a patch if the one reunion was all they were planning.
Before anyone asks, "why wouldn't they fix Conrad in a patch then?” Well, no one gives a flying rat's ass about Conrad, this shows EA won't let BioWare waste money on meaningless things.
Again, companies never do more than necessary unless they are planning something substantial.
I don't see why there is a reason to be pessimistic, EA would not have let BioWare waste their money on something that would never happen, that is just not how the financial world works.
We will see the substantial Beautiful Blue Goddess DLC we are waiting for in the near future.
I don't think EA would say, "Well, we let you use large sums of our money on that character whom you call Liara, but... I think it's time to pull the plug for absolutely no reason and make a crappy DLC where will most likely lose the trust of our customers and no one would buy it.”
If there was going to be crappy Liara DLC (or no DLC at all), she would have just said, "I have to kill the Shadow Broker... goodbye Shepard,” with no emotions involved whatsoever during the reunion.
Liara's entire world is shattered and she feels lost without Shepard with her and extreme guilt over what she has done further makes matters worse. Because of her guilt, she feels sad and depressed to the point where she thinks her life is worth nothing anymore, if she stopped doing what she is doing right now, she would have to face all of those emotions by herself.
She truly needs Shepard to have her mind on her and not on the suicide mission, so Shepard can help her with her negative emotions.
She has even been thinking for two years that her only love will hate her once she is revived, thinking about something like that for that long can make somebody go through all sorts of terrible emotions.
As nice and beautiful as Liara's personality is (and it truly is beautiful), everybody has a breaking point (some people break down in an argument, some people have to kill their mothers and lose their only love in an explosion right in front of them, while being completely helpless to succumb to terrible negative emotions), she has reached that breaking point and needs Shepard to help her emotionally.
Even though she knew Feron for a short time, Liara is the type of person that could never live with someone sacrificing themselves for her sake. She would try to help them no matter how long it took.
Bioware is trying to go the emotional approach, but it unfortunately didn’t work as planned because they were trying to wait for the comics to be released. Now that the comics are released, they will be able to fully explain Liara’s situation to us and let Shepard comfort her.
Situations like this commonly arise because of people elsewhere in a company telling them what to do temporarily.
In another case with billions of dollars on the line, the lawyers won't tell the shareholders anything at all.
Those lawyers, committee members, and everyone else directly involved are legally bound not to say anything, if you are concerned with BioWare not talking to us, it is most likely a legal matter.
You can get your pants sued off by EA or and/or lose your job if you talk about something EA doesn't want you to yet.
I know it sounds like nothing to tell us about Liara DLC, but small things like that cost people their jobs all the time.
Hell, Lawyers can get disbarred in a second for sharing any information pertaining to a case.
Again, it is important to remember that BioWare could not even do the Liara DLC without a lot of emotions between her and Shepard involved. It just wouldn’t make any sense, we have to look at this logically and see what is right in front of us.
BioWare knows they cannot half-ass this, they set it up themselves to be very, very emotional, why would they screw that up for themselves?
We can give up and say it will never happen, but that will just make it more difficult for those who are trying to be optimistic and it will just make the wait harder for yourself.
jlb524 wrote...
Cartims wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
I may not be as vocal as I am with Kaidan, but Liara is dear to me too so I feel your pain, guys.
Still I'll always go by the mantra of the games > external media, and if the external media contradicts the games, then the external media is wrong. The end!
I'll drink to that!
I'm just going to drink.
Guest_Somebody1003_*
I will once class is done. Today isnt such a good day.jlb524 wrote...
Cartims wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
I may not be as vocal as I am with Kaidan, but Liara is dear to me too so I feel your pain, guys.
Still I'll always go by the mantra of the games > external media, and if the external media contradicts the games, then the external media is wrong. The end!
I'll drink to that!
I'm just going to drink.
Guest_justinnstuff_*
Guest_General Stubbs_*
If I had ADD, I wouldn't be able to write that without moving on to something else.Cartims wrote...
I have ADD
Guest_Cartims_*
jlb524 wrote...
Cartims wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
I may not be as vocal as I am with Kaidan, but Liara is dear to me too so I feel your pain, guys.
Still I'll always go by the mantra of the games > external media, and if the external media contradicts the games, then the external media is wrong. The end!
I'll drink to that!
I'm just going to drink.
General Stubbs wrote...
No clue if this will help anyone, but I just put my thoughts on why there will still be substantial Liara DLC.
Okay, so I know the comic was a bit disappointing, but what can you expect them to put on 20 pages? A masterpiece beyond our wildest dreams? I would have loved it if they were able to do that, but the fact of the matter is, it is unrealistic.
It can take me thousands of words to explain neurological process in detail, I highly doubt BioWare would ever be able to fit the complex emotional feelings Liara is going through in four, 20 page comics.
They did do a great job of it in the reunion though, Liara’s body language, voice, and facial expressions perfectly match someone who has been through emotional hell for two years.
If you look at what Liara said the right way and not just take it a face value, it means she is concerned about Shepard’s body and does not want her to come back as a monster. Mentally or physically.
It is actually a good thing there isn’t too much information in the comic books, otherwise BioWare would have less information to work with in the Liara DLC.
That is why the ending of things can usually be lackluster, if the writer(s) (or BioWare in this case) is/are thinking about continuing it in some way, than they don’t want to give people too much.
To start, the DLC right now is not a bad indicator to Liara's DLC.
Ok so, Zaeed is a Merc, what would we even talk to him about other than war stories? Shepard wouldn't really say anything else to him but, "Well, that sounds interesting,” even if she could talk to him.
Kasumi is a thief and a Merc, what would we talk to her about but her thieving adventures? Shepard wouldn't really say anything but, "Ok, I am glad you have all this neat stuff,” even if she could talk to her.
The whole point of Mercs is that they are even more expendable than your regular soldiers, as long as you have money, you have extra bodies (Mercs). BioWare followed that to the f*cking point, why the hell would you care about some guys you hired for the sole purpose of fighting and dying for money.
I already guessed they would put out a character costume pack, what is so different about that from buying a theme for your Xbox? If you want to talk about wasting money of costumes, look a Dead or Alive: Xtreme 2, now that DLC is a freaking waste of money.
We already talked about the Firewalker pack and it being a tank. A tank is used to kill people, no matter what. There is obviously no relationship with the tank, Shepard isn't that desperate... (She does stare at Liara picture 24/7 when I am not playing, I am sure of it).
Even the weapons and armor packs. They just threw that in there for something extra, it doesn't mean anything. Hell, it was free, I didn’t use any of it because of the lack of a helmet toggle, but what are you gonna do.
I am not angry at anyone or anything, I just don’t see how any of this indicates bad Liara DLC.
A lot of companies have put out this kind of cheap stuff, then come out with something great. Sometimes it is just as simple as keeping people interested in the game so they will buy your major item later (Liara DLC).
EA may be greedy SoBs, but they can smell money a mile away and won't let it slip through their grasp. EA will not make BioWare put out something crappy for the thought of saving money on development, they aren't that stupid, they know that cheap isn't always the best way to go.
Companies invariably lose money in the long run if they go the cheap route.
BioWare isn’t in the business of screwing over customers (last time I checked, they weren’t at hedge fund status yet). Their customers are their lifeblood, if they lose any trust whatsoever, they lose sales. Maybe not immediately (they probably would though) but in the future, I assure you, they would lose sales.
Even GTA IV: The Ballad of Gay Tony story was created off of a side mission for the actual GTA IV storyline, did anyone think that would be possible? The actual story for TBoGT is about one thing (diamonds) and they made it 15 hours long. And it is actually worth $20.
If RockStar can make an entire Expansion about getting diamonds back, how is that not indicative of BioWare being able to create at least a 5 - 7 hour DLC about Liara and Shepard's relationship and stopping/catching the worst man in the galaxy.
RockStar made a lot of money off of TBoGt (and the other Expansion), they proved that if you go all out, you can make a profit. They set an example I am positive EA and BioWare both see and realize.
With everything BioWare has put into Liara and her love for Shepard, they would actually have to try their very hardest to screw it up.
I haven’t finished DA:O yet, but from what people are saying Awakenings doesn’t have any squadmates in it from the original game.
Although this is definitely a shame (I probably won’t see Leliana then. Whoo Hoo for BioWare including a f/f romance in that game. Or else my character would have to stare at herself in a mirror and curse the men that keep hitting on her), the core of Awakenings shows that BioWare can make a good DLC without screwing it up to a great extent.
Now, BioWare has already setup Liara as the main character of the DLC and Shepard and her relationship with Shepard has already been recognized as a major part in the DLC.
Well, Shepard and Liara’s relationship will be part of the core experience of the Liara DLC (no matter if you romanced her or not, it will be a major part. She seems to think of you like family if you didn’t romance her. From what people have said, because I can’t play ME without romancing Liara), so even if BioWare follows the DA section of BioWare’s path and ignores some of the less crucial elements, the great emotions and romance between Liara and Shepard have to be there no matter what. Without those emotions, there is no story.
Another thing with TboGT, the actually GTA IV story about the diamonds just ended, absolutely no mention of it or anything that happened after a certain point, nothing. No Biker Gang who stole 2 million dollars is mentioned again, the guy who interrupted the diamond deal is not ever mentioned again, nothing.
Doesn’t that remind you of something? The Liara situation is set up the same way, after two conversations, it is like Shepard and Liara never talked to each other.
But ask yourselves, why did BioWare have a mission for Shepard to get information for Liara? What possible purpose would that serve? BioWare could have easily just given us one short conversation with Liara and left it at that. So why did they have us get that information for her?
I don’t know about you, but it seems like a lead-in for DLC to me, Liara would call you or email you to come see her immediately because she has found some extremely important information and she cannot tell you unless you come in person.
All the pieces to the puzzle are there, it looks like everyone important at EA and BW gave their approval for an emotional, romantic Liara storyline. If they didn't, the comics would just be about Liara killing everyone and getting Shepard's body back while her demeanor is stone cold. Why does she care so much about Shepard if BioWare wasn't planning something?
Even though the reunion was lacking, there are a lot of emotions from Liara, the fact that Shepard just sits there like she is deaf and blind means that someone in marketing had the bright idea to hold off any emotions from Shepard until the comics were done and the DLC was released.
People in marketing do really weird things that make perfect sense financially, but not logically.
BioWare would have noticed that the one scene (besides Conrad) in the game that feels unfinished that extent if it was an oversight, they probably would have fixed it in a patch if the one reunion was all they were planning.
Before anyone asks, "why wouldn't they fix Conrad in a patch then?” Well, no one gives a flying rat's ass about Conrad, this shows EA won't let BioWare waste money on meaningless things.
Again, companies never do more than necessary unless they are planning something substantial.
I don't see why there is a reason to be pessimistic, EA would not have let BioWare waste their money on something that would never happen, that is just not how the financial world works.
We will see the substantial Beautiful Blue Goddess DLC we are waiting for in the near future.
I don't think EA would say, "Well, we let you use large sums of our money on that character whom you call Liara, but... I think it's time to pull the plug for absolutely no reason and make a crappy DLC where will most likely lose the trust of our customers and no one would buy it.”
If there was going to be crappy Liara DLC (or no DLC at all), she would have just said, "I have to kill the Shadow Broker... goodbye Shepard,” with no emotions involved whatsoever during the reunion.
Liara's entire world is shattered and she feels lost without Shepard with her and extreme guilt over what she has done further makes matters worse. Because of her guilt, she feels sad and depressed to the point where she thinks her life is worth nothing anymore, if she stopped doing what she is doing right now, she would have to face all of those emotions by herself.
She truly needs Shepard to have her mind on her and not on the suicide mission, so Shepard can help her with her negative emotions.
She has even been thinking for two years that her only love will hate her once she is revived, thinking about something like that for that long can make somebody go through all sorts of terrible emotions.
As nice and beautiful as Liara's personality is (and it truly is beautiful), everybody has a breaking point (some people break down in an argument, some people have to kill their mothers and lose their only love in an explosion right in front of them, while being completely helpless to succumb to terrible negative emotions), she has reached that breaking point and needs Shepard to help her emotionally.
Even though she knew Feron for a short time, Liara is the type of person that could never live with someone sacrificing themselves for her sake. She would try to help them no matter how long it took.
Bioware is trying to go the emotional approach, but it unfortunately didn’t work as planned because they were trying to wait for the comics to be released. Now that the comics are released, they will be able to fully explain Liara’s situation to us and let Shepard comfort her.
Situations like this commonly arise because of people elsewhere in a company telling them what to do temporarily.
In another case with billions of dollars on the line, the lawyers won't tell the shareholders anything at all.
Those lawyers, committee members, and everyone else directly involved are legally bound not to say anything, if you are concerned with BioWare not talking to us, it is most likely a legal matter.
You can get your pants sued off by EA or and/or lose your job if you talk about something EA doesn't want you to yet.
I know it sounds like nothing to tell us about Liara DLC, but small things like that cost people their jobs all the time.
Hell, Lawyers can get disbarred in a second for sharing any information pertaining to a case.
Again, it is important to remember that BioWare could not even do the Liara DLC without a lot of emotions between her and Shepard involved. It just wouldn’t make any sense, we have to look at this logically and see what is right in front of us.
BioWare knows they cannot half-ass this, they set it up themselves to be very, very emotional, why would they screw that up for themselves?
We can give up and say it will never happen, but that will just make it more difficult for those who are trying to be optimistic and it will just make the wait harder for yourself.
Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 07 avril 2010 - 05:55 .
Guest_justinnstuff_*
screwoffreg wrote...
It got so bad for my lonely ME 2 Fem-sheps that they were thinking Harbringer didn't look so bad...
Modifié par screwoffreg, 07 avril 2010 - 06:00 .
justinnstuff wrote...
screwoffreg wrote...
It got so bad for my lonely ME 2 Fem-sheps that they were thinking Harbringer didn't look so bad...
Oh god, that love scene would be terrible.
I love you Harb... ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL
I KNOW YOU FEEL THIS
IF I MUST TEAR YOU APART SHEPARD I WILL
Guest_LesEnfantsTerribles_*
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