50907 réponses à ce sujet

[screwoffreg]

justinnstuff wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

I think we have to accept for all intents and purposes IT IS OVER.  There are lingering memories of days gone by, but that is all.  Shepard was dead, as in perma-dead until techology and billions of credits spent by terrorists saved him/her.

ME 3 will be about reacquainting yourself with Liara/Ashley/Kaiden and seeing if there is anything there would salvaging. That is the players decision...

Its rough, but what did we expect?  A Disney ride?

A disney ride? Not after Mark Meer himself commented on how dark the game was and Mac showed up to write the story.

Think of it like this.  if the Liara romance was "easy" and if everything we wanted happened immediately, it would be cheapened.  Its going to have to be earned, on both sides.  Also, there is the context of mass extinction of all species to be aware of.

Yes, it sucks.  Yes, it could have been written ALOT better.  But the result would likely be the same.  Two years is a long time to wait for someone who is dead and people move on as painful as that is.  We are all looking at this through Shepard's perspective, which is natural.  Someone who felt like the days with Liara were yesterday and not years past.  Looking at it from the galaxy's perspective, Shepard is STILL dead to many people.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 07 avril 2010 - 10:58 .

[JPfanner]

justinnstuff wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Reading the dialogue from when Liara hands the corpse over to Cerberus, I still can't quite get my head around it. No matter how many times I read it, it still seems contradictory to the "I couldn't let you go" from ME2.

Help me out here someone, it may be the fact that I'm really tired and it's starting to affect my thinking.

It is as it sounds, there's not much change in interpretation no matter how many times you read it. However, after she says it, she starts to choke on her words. What else was she going to say? Did she regret what she just said? Those are the questions I have right now.

There's a difference between bringing Shepard back and bringing Shepard back as some hideous abomination.  I think that is why she expresses some concern there.  Miranda says the damage is more extensive than they thought.  Like that mission in ME1 where you have the brain dead guy on life support, he's kind of alive, but not in any meaningful way.  Bringing back some shambling drooling THING that looked more or less like Shepard, but wasn't, isn't anything that would Liara would want.

[screwoffreg]

After calming down from the morning, even modest old me would have likely written the same route if not as "WOW SMASH RELATIONSHIP" as it turned out to be. Its a powerful dramatic device that sucks to experience but at least this isn't the last game. If this was the ENDING to a romance, that would be awful and I'd be all for gnashing of teeth. There is still at least a 30+ hour experience of a final game and a likely expansion, so cling to hope for a bit longer and you may find your reward.

I think IF you want Liara back in ME 3, she is there for the taking. If you do not, then you will also make that choice for whatever reason (bitterness, spite, lost interest, etc).

To be honest, even I am torn.  Part of me wants my character to reunite with her and another part wants me to tell her to slag off.  I guess thats realistic emotions, lol.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 07 avril 2010 - 11:03 .

[scmadsen]

Does this explain why Shepard doesn't fight to get Liara back, there is no reason what so ever, unless you really reach for it, to explain why Shepard doesn't verbally grab Liara and shake her back to reason. Shepard can't express love, or fear, or ask the important questions. "Who was this friend and why does he matter so much?" "What about us?" "Do you still love me?" "Why the run around, Liara, why won't you come with me? You know as well as I do, what the Reapers are." Not even a: "I couldn't of let you go either." or "I'm coming back for you this time."

[screwoffreg]

scmadsen wrote...

Does this explain why Shepard doesn't fight to get Liara back, there is no reason what so ever, unless you really reach for it, to explain why Shepard doesn't verbally grab Liara and shake her back to reason. Shepard can't express love, or fear, or ask the important questions. "Who was this friend and why does he matter so much?" "What about us?" "Do you still love me?" "Why the run around, Liara, why won't you come with me? You know as well as I do, what the Reapers are." Not even a: "I couldn't of let you go either." or "I'm coming back for you this time."

No, and that is a major oversight to me.  If I were Shepard I'd still be pissed and say something, even if its just raising my fist at the cruelty of fate.  The lack of emotion in Shepard is...eh, lame.

[bjdbwea]

yorkj86 wrote...

Liara:  "Then I don't see the point, Miranda.  Maybe I don't know what human traditions are -- But I really think you should let the dead rest.  This isn't what I brought Shepard back for.  This is almost like -- Like --"

That's some pretty damning evidence...

... that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand does at BioWare/EA. Or rather, that they don't care in the least about consistency nor about their own characters.

Seriously, how does the above fit with...

I gave you to them. Because they said they could rebuild you.

And to do that, I had to take it from the Shadow Broker, who was going to sell your corpse to the Collectors.

And when I gave you to Cerberus, I told myself I was doing it for you, for a chance to bring you back.

But I knew Cerberus would use you for their own business. And I let it happen. Because I couldn't let you go. I'm sorry.

If, hypothetically, someone said that only complete and total idiots could contradict themselves like that, I would find it hard to disagree.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 07 avril 2010 - 11:07 .

[screwoffreg]

Yeah there were some writing oversights, to say the least, lol. C'mon Bioware! Consistency!

[scmadsen]

bjdbwea wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Liara:  "Then I don't see the point, Miranda.  Maybe I don't know what human traditions are -- But I really think you should let the dead rest.  This isn't what I brought Shepard back for.  This is almost like -- Like --"

That's some pretty damning evidence...

... that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand does at BioWare/EA. Or rather, that they don't care in the least about consistency nor about their own characters.

Seriously, how does the above fit with...

I gave you to them. Because they said they could rebuild you.

And to do that, I had to take it from the Shadow Broker, who was going to sell your corpse to the Collectors.

And when I gave you to Cerberus, I told myself I was doing it for you, for a chance to bring you back.

But I knew Cerberus would use you for their own business. And I let it happen. Because I couldn't let you go. I'm sorry.

If, hypothetically, someone said that only complete and total idiots could contradict themselves like that, I would find it hard to disagree.

This.

[JPfanner]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

To me, Liara's dialogue on Illium seems to suggest otherwise that it's over. She's still very much in love with Shepard, wants to go with him/her, and is wracked with guilt for handing her lover over to Cerberus, and terrified that Shepard will hate her. And that's been eating away at her for two years.

To me, that tells me any relationship is far from over, and that Liara is still just as passionate about Shepard, but circumstances are dictating that they can't be at each other's side for the time being.

Yep, it's nice to finally get some recognition from a third party about the relationship.  But who in the entire galaxy hasn't heard that Shepard and Liara "were" an item?  We've talked many times about how absurd it is that no one else recongizes the relationship.  Yeah, you were an item to everyone else, then Shepard died and hasn't been seen for two years.  What other context is someone going to talk about that relationship going from rumor about what happened two years ago?
Liara still has feelings for Shepard, the kiss and her dialog prove that.  By DEFAULT Shepard does as well, or else there wouldn't be a picture there on the desk.  Bioware just sucked at writing any interaction between them in order to satisfy all their lame design criteria.

Modifié par JPfanner, 07 avril 2010 - 11:14 .

[WilliamShatner]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

To me, Liara's dialogue on Illium seems to suggest otherwise that it's over. She's still very much in love with Shepard, wants to go with him/her, and is wracked with guilt for handing her lover over to Cerberus, and terrified that Shepard will hate her. And that's been eating away at her for two years.

To me, that tells me any relationship is far from over, and that Liara is still just as passionate about Shepard, but circumstances are dictating that they can't be at each other's side for the time being.

Liara might still care for Shepard but that doesn't mean there's still a relationship (she says the exact same thing to a non-romanced Shepard) and it doesn't mean BioWare will allow us to have one.

Look at the evidence.

What do you get if you romanced Liara?  A kiss so unpassionate the French would be insulted by it as a greeting.

Liara and Shepard do not bring up their relationship ONCE, at all.

Liara puts a vendetta before Shepard.

And now Kasumi talks about it directly in the past tense.

There is no evidence of a relationship between Shepard and Liara existing in ME2.

I don't think BioWare thinks we care about our ME1 relationships in the same way they don't think we care about the story continuity between the two games.  They expect us to eat up the new stuff and forget about the original.

[jlb524]

Yay! Shep and Liara were an item! It's official! It's from Kasumi! It's over!



Too bad I won't get to hear that in game right now. Maybe someday I'll feel like replaying this crap game with my Shepard so she can hear that

[scmadsen]

It is very sad to see how this has broken our little group here into two camps, and then those that have just given up.

[morrie23]

scmadsen wrote...

It is very sad to see how this has broken our little group here into two camps, and then those that have just given up.

It's been an emotional day to say the least.

[jlb524]

WilliamShatner wrote...

I don't think BioWare thinks we care about our ME1 relationships in the same way they don't think we care about the story continuity between the two games.  They expect us to eat up the new stuff and forget about the original.

They have said that ME2 is the game ME1 was supposed to be.  I think they've given up on ME1 stuff, IMO.  They reset everything they started in ME1, the LIs, the Reaper threat, Shepard THE MAIN CHARACTER!!  All decisions from that game show up as meaningless little emails or news announcements.  ME2 is where it's really at....that's the true start to this series.