50907 réponses à ce sujet

[scmadsen]

Well, I won't give up just yet, I'll stick around to see what happens. But I'm much more likely to vote with my money when more DLC, an expansion, and ME3 comes around. I'll stay faithful to Liara and see what happens, but, if she ends up being a lost cause, and they have an ending in which Shepard dies to save the galaxy, I might just go that route and be done with it, rather then have a sad ending with Shepard being left alone and brokenhearted.

[ratzerman]

Shavon wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Yay! Shep and Liara were an item! It's official! It's from Kasumi! It's over!

Too bad I won't get to hear that in game right now. Maybe someday I'll feel like replaying this crap game with my Shepard so she can hear that

This reminds me of the dialogue you get with Joker after Horizon.  If you romanced Ash/Kaidan, no matter how you respond to Joker, it seems like he assumes Shep and Virmire Survivor broke up.

Ugh, I am so depressed right now.  Bw hates romances.  It's official.

Yup.  Bioware loves the hookup, but hates everything that comes afterwards.

[Asheer_Khan]

yorkj86 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

york, what is the exact dialogue during the body handover? I would like to know so I can make some judgements myself. I don't actually know if she says specifically that Miranda should let Shepard go.

Miranda:  "You did well, Liara.  We were right to put our faith in you -- Shepard obviously made some very good friends.  I just wish I had better news for you -- We may not be able to restore Shepard after all.  The body is in worse shape than we expected.   There were some preservation systems in the pod, but they were hardly optimal."
Liara:  "Then I don't see the point, Miranda.  Maybe I don't know what human traditions are -- But I really think you should let the dead rest.  This isn't what I brought Shepard back for.  This is almost like -- Like --"
Miranda:  "Like something the Collectors would have done?    We don't know what they would have done, Liara -- Though hopefully the information you brought back may suggest something.  And it might not be as bad as you think -- The Boss is more hopeful about Shepard's prospects.  We're willing to spend everything we've got -- But it will take a very long time, if it works at all.   I wouldn't sit around waiting here."

And then Liara and Miranda talk about whether or not Cerberus will do anything about Feron, and Liara says she's going to go off and try to find out what's become of him.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
Also, in what context and what is the dialogue like when Liara says something to Feron like "Words aren't the only things that speak the truth."? People seem to misinterpreting that very line, and I want to see what Liara is referring to and what is said immidiately prior to that.

I admit, it could be taken several ways.  Liara is grasping one of his arms, and has a hand on his shoulder.   He is facing away from her, but there's no real indication of intimacy, if that's the concern.

EDIT:  Grammar.

OK here is my theory.

I think when Liara saw Shepard's body on operation table it was the time when she realized what she have done.
She undertake absolute galactic high risk by giving Cerberus full controll over Shep's body.
Honestly Miranda didn't have any reason to lie to her that chances of success are very, very low and that's was for Liara perhaps biggest shock.
She realized what alternative were on table.

- Assuming that operation will be partial succesfull but but level of internal brain damages will put Shepard just above level of the veggie... and that's was absulute LAST thing she would want for her loved one and that's why she start to talk about letting Shepard dead.

And those words "This is almost like --- Like..." i can assumed that she wanted to say - " Betrial of every beliefs which Shepard  and I shares about life and going absolute against Shepard's will in that matter..." but Mirada's convo simple put her out of courage to finish.

Yes she could NOT LET Shepard go... but she could not accept as well even a slightest tought that Shepard could be alive but bounded untill last days to medical bed or whell chair barely noticed her surrounding....
And looks like apparently she WAS missguided by TiM in success odds of Lazarus project (and fact that Miranda was so blunt could indicated little lack of contacts between her and TiM in final stages to ensure "official" line of dialogues between her and Lili) and when she realized that fellings of guilty grow up to size of Prothean buble which trap her again... and during meeting n Illum she was still trapped in that emotional buble of deadly fear that Shepard will never forget what she have done and everything what once was between her and Shepard will be over.
But two years is quite long time so she adapted that buble for her life but something tells me that behind that "ruthles" shield is still this same scarred Lili which called for help inside Prothean buble on Therum... but now Shepard have lot difficult task to switch that buble off because "console" lays in Lili's heart....

On the othr hand maybe i just want to see in that way?
Of course problems of cerberus usig Shep for his own "political" purposes was important for her but she known that Shepard will be able to "control" whole situation anyway.

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 07 avril 2010 - 11:31 .

[jlb524]

justinnstuff wrote...

When did they say that?

Here

He actually says ME2 was closer to the 'vision' they had with ME1.  I'm just interpreting it as 'This is what is important!!!  ME2!!!!  Shooooooting!!!'

[bjdbwea]

jlb524 wrote...

ME2 is where it's really at....that's the true start to this series.

I don't think so. Just wait and see, ME 3 will hit the reset button again. It's all about saving time and resources, and preventing any hurdles for newcomers to the series.

[Unata]

jlb524 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

When did they say that?

Here

He actually says ME2 was closer to the 'vision' they had with ME1.  I'm just interpreting it as 'This is what is important!!!  ME2!!!!  Shooooooting!!!'

He's talking about the combat of it, not the role playing aspect

[JamieCOTC]

Okay, my 2 cents on the comic. For the record, I have not read #4 yet, but have read the summery.



I think Mass Effect: Redemption was doomed from the start as it was handicapped with several conditions that would challenge even good writers. This is just my opinion, btw.

Condition #1: E for Everyone. The comic had to appeal to both fans of the ME games and newcomers alike. This means that someone had to come up with a story that introduces newbies to the ME universe without boring the heck out of the loyal fans.



Condition#2: No love. There could be no romance between Shepard and Liara. Even if this comic were only for people who played the game, not everyone romanced Liara.



Condition#3: No big reveals. I think it could be successfully argued that had Redemption revealed a major plot point that it would not have hurt sales of ME2, any upcoming DLC or even ME3. That said, it was never going to happen. To have a big reveal in the comic would mean it would have to be an almost mandatory companion piece to the game and both BW and Dark Horse know not everyone is going to buy the comic.



Condition#4: Barnes and Noble. In theory a story should be told in the amount of time it takes to tell the story. In today’s comic industry such is not the practice. Even if the story could be told in one book it needs to be stretched out into four or more so that it can later be sold as a trade paperback at B&N, Borders, Amazon, etc. The reason is that more people shop at B&N than at local comic shops and thanks to the Manga explosion, comics are more popular than ever. More popular means more profit and that is what it is all about.



Condition#5: Any color you want as long as it’s black. (The reference is to what Henry Ford said about the color choices of the first cars he rolled out of his factory.) I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the writers really and truly wanted to deliver a good story w/ Redemption, however, given all the above handicaps it was going to be a challenge to say the least. The writers had to make a good story, but they had to be vague about certain details so they could meet the first three conditions. They had to acknowledge Shepard without giving away the gender. They had to make Liara, the hero of the story, honorable and dedicated, (and possibly in love w/ Shepard), yet not seemingly obsessed. Finally, they had to give Liara a bit of conflict to resolve that would not conflict with condition #3, no big reveals. No trivial task.



I’m not trying to give the writers a free pass as I thought the comic was poorly written, but even a great writer would struggle with the above conditions. I am just giving my opinion on why the whole thing was doomed from the start. As to the continuity error the size of Venus, there was one even bigger in the Star Wars trilogy where Darth Vader apparently killed himself, but people still enjoyed the movies.



In the end, I think ME: Redemption is like the toy surprise in the box of ****** Jacks. Kind of fun, not much to it but in the end, doesn’t really mean anything. The down side is you have to pay for this prize.

[JPfanner]

In the novels there are contradictions with what has been established in the game. The game still takes precedence as it is the primary source. It's no different with the comics.

The best part of the comics was the Redemption 1 cover. Everything else is just some generalized fluff designed to increase the market share of the game. Arguably, even that sassy cover was for that as well, but I like Liara regardless.

[Asheer_Khan]

Unata wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

When did they say that?

Here

He actually says ME2 was closer to the 'vision' they had with ME1.  I'm just interpreting it as 'This is what is important!!!  ME2!!!!  Shooooooting!!!'

He's talking about the combat of it, not the role playing aspect

Looks like Bioware-Canada CEO's missed school when teachers explained meaning of the word trilogy...

[AndroLeonidas]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Okay, my 2 cents on the comic. For the record, I have not read #4 yet, but have read the summery.

I think Mass Effect: Redemption was doomed from the start as it was handicapped with several conditions that would challenge even good writers. This is just my opinion, btw.
Condition #1: E for Everyone. The comic had to appeal to both fans of the ME games and newcomers alike. This means that someone had to come up with a story that introduces newbies to the ME universe without boring the heck out of the loyal fans.

Condition#2: No love. There could be no romance between Shepard and Liara. Even if this comic were only for people who played the game, not everyone romanced Liara.

Condition#3: No big reveals. I think it could be successfully argued that had Redemption revealed a major plot point that it would not have hurt sales of ME2, any upcoming DLC or even ME3. That said, it was never going to happen. To have a big reveal in the comic would mean it would have to be an almost mandatory companion piece to the game and both BW and Dark Horse know not everyone is going to buy the comic.

Condition#4: Barnes and Noble. In theory a story should be told in the amount of time it takes to tell the story. In today’s comic industry such is not the practice. Even if the story could be told in one book it needs to be stretched out into four or more so that it can later be sold as a trade paperback at B&N, Borders, Amazon, etc. The reason is that more people shop at B&N than at local comic shops and thanks to the Manga explosion, comics are more popular than ever. More popular means more profit and that is what it is all about.

Condition#5: Any color you want as long as it’s black. (The reference is to what Henry Ford said about the color choices of the first cars he rolled out of his factory.) I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the writers really and truly wanted to deliver a good story w/ Redemption, however, given all the above handicaps it was going to be a challenge to say the least. The writers had to make a good story, but they had to be vague about certain details so they could meet the first three conditions. They had to acknowledge Shepard without giving away the gender. They had to make Liara, the hero of the story, honorable and dedicated, (and possibly in love w/ Shepard), yet not seemingly obsessed. Finally, they had to give Liara a bit of conflict to resolve that would not conflict with condition #3, no big reveals. No trivial task.

I’m not trying to give the writers a free pass as I thought the comic was poorly written, but even a great writer would struggle with the above conditions. I am just giving my opinion on why the whole thing was doomed from the start. As to the continuity error the size of Venus, there was one even bigger in the Star Wars trilogy where Darth Vader apparently killed himself, but people still enjoyed the movies.

In the end, I think ME: Redemption is like the toy surprise in the box of ****** Jacks. Kind of fun, not much to it but in the end, doesn’t really mean anything. The down side is you have to pay for this prize.

THIS!!

I've had some time to think on this and while I do not hold a lot of hope for a DLC to resolve this to my liking... our liking... after much further meditation I'm thinking the comics were a money thing and were never intended for the person who played ME1 or those who romanced Liara. I think it was all catered to the new Shooter crowd.

I really truly hope that we get the ending we want... but my trust level in Bioware has taken some really big hits lately. I'll reserve judgement on final decision until we see something more in terms of recognition. Ash/Kaiden got recognition on some small scale. That is all I can hope for now.

[jlb524]

Unata wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

When did they say that?

Here

He actually says ME2 was closer to the 'vision' they had with ME1.  I'm just interpreting it as 'This is what is important!!!  ME2!!!!  Shooooooting!!!'

He's talking about the combat of it, not the role playing aspect

What role playing aspects?  I thought they've done away with those entirely?

[WilliamShatner]

jlb524 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

When did they say that?

Here

He actually says ME2 was closer to the 'vision' they had with ME1.  I'm just interpreting it as 'This is what is important!!!  ME2!!!!  Shooooooting!!!'

Oh god.

There is no word in the English language offensive enough to describe that interview and the self-serving bollox contained with in.  They've shown exactly were their intentions lie and have pretty much killed the Mass Effect series for me.

Did that interviewer just describe the opening to ME2 as perfect?  No wonder the gaming industry is such a low calibre medium when idiots like this are the ones asking developers questions.

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 07 avril 2010 - 11:45 .

[Unata]

JamieCOTC wrote...

*snip*
In the end, I think ME: Redemption is like the toy surprise in the box of ****** Jacks. Kind of fun, not much to it but in the end, doesn’t really mean anything. The down side is you have to pay for this prize.

****** Jacks doesn't have toys anymore, just paper stuff, puzzle like

[Nynaeve]

It makes you wonder exactly who Bioware were selling the comics to, who were their target market? New ME fans? I doubt it, Liara romancers? Well they screwed us but probably thought we were easy money...confused, maybe it really was just a way to spin some cash...

[scmadsen]

We can have a choice here, to either follow the comics or ignore them.

Do we take the comics as part of canon lore, and therefore, Liara lied to Shepard, and seems to care more for Feron then Shepard at this point? Liara goes after the Shadow Broker for Feron, and ignores Shepard, doesn't do anything to get ready for the return or help it along, and then when that return happens, picks Feron over Shepard and the rest of the galaxy.

Or do we take the game for what was given us, and ignore the comic, writing it off as just fluff to raise some cash. This would leave us back where we started, and thus we gained nothing...and we are still waiting for a DLC to show us what happened, why, and explain what we see in ME2.

Modifié par scmadsen, 07 avril 2010 - 11:51 .

[Erinlana]

WilliamShatner wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

When did they say that?

Here

He actually says ME2 was closer to the 'vision' they had with ME1.  I'm just interpreting it as 'This is what is important!!!  ME2!!!!  Shooooooting!!!'

Oh god.

There is no word in the English language offensive enough to describe that interview and the self-serving bollox contained with in.  They've shown exactly were their intentions lie and have pretty much killed the Mass Effect series for me.

Did that interviewer just describe the opening to ME2 as perfect?  No wonder the gaming industry is such a low calibre medium when idiots like this are the ones asking developers questions.

Why do people think there is so much wrong with mass effect 2 , i think their were more dialogue option's for sure in me2 and the player interaction was greater , i think it had a balenced combat/RPG faction to it...

[Nynaeve]

seems a lose lose situation scmadsen, we are ultimately expected to 'make of it what we will'

[jlb524]

I don't want to say Liara lied to Shepard....feelings are a hard thing to describe and they change. As far as taking this as canon, well, I do. The comic shows us how Cerberus obtained Shepard and this is canon and is brought up in ME2.

[JamieCOTC]

Unata wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

*snip*
In the end, I think ME: Redemption is like the toy surprise in the box of ****** Jacks. Kind of fun, not much to it but in the end, doesn’t really mean anything. The down side is you have to pay for this prize.

****** Jacks doesn't have toys anymore, just paper stuff, puzzle like

Well, it's been a long time since I ate ****** Jacks.  Probably about 20 years.