50907 réponses à ce sujet

[mrbeavis19]

 ok, my sketch is done! I'll upload around 9 when I get home. 

[Unata]

justinnstuff wrote...

Unata wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

*snip*
In the end, I think ME: Redemption is like the toy surprise in the box of ****** Jacks. Kind of fun, not much to it but in the end, doesn’t really mean anything. The down side is you have to pay for this prize.

****** Jacks doesn't have toys anymore, just paper stuff, puzzle like

paper puzzle like a 4 book comic series featuring a hot blue alien? 

Well, in my humble opinion yes, that would be where that comic series belongs, sad to say.

SO! ladies and gentlemen, we are back to square one, somewhere back in this forum is a mention of an interview with someone from BW saying the ME1 Romance options would carry over to ME3 and what you do in ME2 would affect it to the good or bad (someone have it please?)

This comic was just simply a side car to the  ME franchise to do what all companies wish to do, make money, and Jamie is 100% correct.

[scmadsen]

The part about not being able to talk, because she being listened to and watched...but yet in the same breath, she goes on and on about wanting to hunt down the Shadow Broker...she implied that it was Cerberus that was watching her, and she couldn't open up about the relationship. That was my read on it, anyway. I expected the deal with TIM to be at the end of the comic, meaning Liara can't distract Shepard.



Also, again, she told she couldn't let Shepard go, but then we see her tell Miranda to do just that. Which is it? She tells Shepard hunting the Shadow broker was about what he was trying to do to Shepard, but the comic says Liara is hunting the Shadow Broker for Feron.



That's two lies. Am I looking at things wrong here?

[scmadsen]

And I always hated ****** Jack, bleh.

Modifié par scmadsen, 07 avril 2010 - 11:59 .

[WilliamShatner]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...


Liara might still care for Shepard but that doesn't mean there's still a relationship (she says the exact same thing to a non-romanced Shepard) and it doesn't mean BioWare will allow us to have one.

Look at the evidence.

What do you get if you romanced Liara?  A kiss so unpassionate the French would be insulted by it as a greeting.

Liara and Shepard do not bring up their relationship ONCE, at all.

Liara puts a vendetta before Shepard.

And now Kasumi talks about it directly in the past tense.

There is no evidence of a relationship between Shepard and Liara existing in ME2.

I don't think BioWare thinks we care about our ME1 relationships in the same way they don't think we care about the story continuity between the two games.  They expect us to eat up the new stuff and forget about the original.

I'll try and tackle each of your points, WS.

-The kiss is awkward and unpassionate because Liara is afraid that Shepard will hate her, and Liara is suffering with her guilt and emotional turmoil. We know from ME1 that Liara will only ever show physical intimacy unless she's completely comfortable with herself, Shepard, their trust and their love for each other plus her own happiness and contentment. Liara is not comfortable and happy in ME2, she's terrified Shepard will hate her. It's testament to her love for Shepard that she still kisses him/her anyway, despite being so guilty, sad and unhappy because she loves Shepard so much.

-I believe that the relationship is not brought up once because they're waiting to tackle it in the Liara DLC, and they need to maintain the status quo of being unsure for it to work. Contrived, I know, but they can't really do anything else to keep the status of the relationship the same, so we get a proper rekindling in Liara's DLC.

-It's not as simple as Liara putting a vendetta before Shepard. Liara has suffered greatly, she's in tremendous amounts of emotional pain and is terrified the person she loves hates her. Because or her failure to cope with this pain, she projects it onto a convenient figure like the SB in the form of hate, and hopes that ending the SB will ease her pain, make her feel happy again. We're artificially prevented from comforting Liara and easing her away from this goal because, again, I think they want to tackle this in Liara's DLC. If we were given the ability to comfort and console Liara, she'd be back on the Normandy as she says she wants to be.

-Regarding Kasumi, JP already covered that in a post above. Most everyone would have known about Shep and Liara's relationship two years ago. Because then Shepard has been dead for two years, and people would be unsure of the status of the relationship, they will refer to it in the past tense. We know better, however.

Thanks for the reply LET but a lot of what you say is based on assumations and what ifs.  The audience should never have to assume to understand a story or character.  And the "what if" of DLC and ME3 to understand Liara or continue the relationship is a smack in the face to fans.  We shouldn't have to pay another $10-60 to see what little of it there may be.  Fans of Liara (and Ashley and Kaidan) should have got a satsifying amount of content in ME2.  That we didn't shows how little BioWare give a crap about it, and their roles in ME2 speak to me as nothing more than the very smallest of lip service they could possibly give.

And while I'm never going to blame Liara for bad writing completely out of her control, being a fictional character and all, I have to vent my ire at BioWare and their complete f-up of this potentially awesome series.

Oh well, to paraphrase Humphrey Bogart, "We'll always have Mass Effect."

[JaylaClark]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Reading the dialogue from when Liara hands the corpse over to Cerberus, I still can't quite get my head around it. No matter how many times I read it, it still seems contradictory to the "I couldn't let you go" from ME2.

Help me out here someone, it may be the fact that I'm really tired and it's starting to affect my thinking.

That is it, I can't help it, this is as far as I can go without saying it, can't even make it through the last two pages even  --

CALM.  THE.  ****.  DOWN!!!!!

(Seriously, you've been so broken up all day that I've been picturing you with the knife hovering over the wrists.  And dear GOD I wish I was exaggerating.  And for comparison, I saw the reaction to the summary and I faked a stomach virus attack so I could go into the restroom and cry for ten minutes.  Thank the Maker that vigna posted his/her take on it later.)

What I read is this -- the way they're describing it, there might very well not be any of her Shepard left.  She (as per my rule, I speak of Shepard as femShep) might not come back right -- she might be just something shaped like the Shepard LiLi knew.  And if that were true, better to let her rest in peace rather than have her walking around bastardizing the memory of Commander Shepard with a pale imitation.  (As well, whatever you think about the human soul applies here -- and by 'human' I mean 'sentient, sapient being' for the sake of argument.)

"I couldn't let you go" was ... well, Shepard.  What they found, if they couldn't work a thermodynamic miracle, wouldn't be Shepard.  So she went nuts on the chance to save her, which is what happened in the comic.  But if what came off that table wasn't truly Shepard...

Son of a B!TCH, this is actually explaining that kiss!  And the distance!  She reacts without thinking to the sight of her lost love, then her fears flood back and she's damn careful about how she says a thing for the duration of the first conversation... less so for the second, and the third is the only one I feel entitled to b!tch about because she opens up fully, and Shepard should have said a little more, at least our Shepards should've.

Okay, I'm gonna think about this some more, but ... wow.

[Erinlana]

Unata wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

Unata wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

*snip*
In the end, I think ME: Redemption is like the toy surprise in the box of ****** Jacks. Kind of fun, not much to it but in the end, doesn’t really mean anything. The down side is you have to pay for this prize.

****** Jacks doesn't have toys anymore, just paper stuff, puzzle like

paper puzzle like a 4 book comic series featuring a hot blue alien? 

Well, in my humble opinion yes, that would be where that comic series belongs, sad to say.

SO! ladies and gentlemen, we are back to square one, somewhere back in this forum is a mention of an interview with someone from BW saying the ME1 Romance options would carry over to ME3 and what you do in ME2 would affect it to the good or bad (someone have it please?)

This comic was just simply a side car to the  ME franchise to do what all companies wish to do, make money, and Jamie is 100% correct.

The romances in me1  can only be for the better in ME3 as there are roamance options in me2 ...

I mean she just seemed too  tired up in everything esle to even consider a possiable romance..

just my sad little opinion

[Asheer_Khan]

scmadsen wrote...

We can have a choice here, to either follow the comics or ignore them.

Do we take the comics as part of canon lore, and therefore, Liara lied to Shepard, and seems to care more for Feron then Shepard at this point? Liara goes after the Shadow Broker for Feron, and ignores Shepard, doesn't do anything to get ready for the return or help it along, and then when that return happens, picks Feron over Shepard and the rest of the galaxy.

Or do we take the game for what was given us, and ignore the comic, writing it off as just fluff to raise some cash. This would leave us back where we started, and thus we gained nothing...and we are still waiting for a DLC to show us what happened, why, and explain what we see in ME2.

I would say let's treat this comic as explanation thanks to who Shepard "land" on Lazrus station at all... and competely ignored all the rest of the background.

And i started to think about one more factor here.
As was mentioned little early Liara says in reply when Shepard refuses to help her whit hacking "I never come and beg for a favor even if..." (and she breaks here if i recall those convo correct) so i started to ask myself a question,
Did that mean that she undertake this journey to reclaim Shepard's body all alone WITHOUT informing Aliance or even survived old Normandy crew members and Feron just uses opportunity to "lend helping hand" working for both sites in this same time?

That could explained why Tali or Garrus were so surprised to see Shepard alive because they didn't have a slightest idea about Lazarus egsistence.

[scmadsen]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Go with ME2, 100% People need to realise that the presentation in the comic is so poor and contradictory, that you can't really take any of it serious and at face value.

I mean, look at how it doesn't depict Liara handing over the corpse to Cerberus as such a massively traumatising, guilt inducing soul destroyer. It's ridiculous.

The bottom line is, they screwed up by not having Liara state all of her motives for hunting the Shadow Broker, and didn't show all of the emotions and suffering and guilt she's had to deal with for two years, as it's showcased in ME2. ME2 makes it plainly clear that Liara is suffering, and it's because of her love for Shepard. Redemption shows only little of that.

Trust the game, and nothing else, Do not take the comic at face value.

To play devil's advocate here...Liara could be broken up over Feron and not Shepard...if she was truly in this dark place, because she loves and misses Shepard...then why not go with Shepard, and sort it all out on the Normandy...if the very fiber of her being, is that she loves and misses Shepard with all her heart and soul...then wouldn't going with Shepard, no matter what Shepard is now, be more important then anything? Liara isn't going to figure out what Cerberus did to Shepard, or what Shepard has become, by sitting in her office.

[jlb524]

rynluna wrote...

 All this negativity hurts my poor head.  I've already had a bad day from my ex gf telling me I was nothing to her except for a sex object.  Now that sucks. 

Oh, sorry! 

*hugs*

[screwoffreg]

scmadsen wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Go with ME2, 100% People need to realise that the presentation in the comic is so poor and contradictory, that you can't really take any of it serious and at face value.

I mean, look at how it doesn't depict Liara handing over the corpse to Cerberus as such a massively traumatising, guilt inducing soul destroyer. It's ridiculous.

The bottom line is, they screwed up by not having Liara state all of her motives for hunting the Shadow Broker, and didn't show all of the emotions and suffering and guilt she's had to deal with for two years, as it's showcased in ME2. ME2 makes it plainly clear that Liara is suffering, and it's because of her love for Shepard. Redemption shows only little of that.

Trust the game, and nothing else, Do not take the comic at face value.

To play devil's advocate here...Liara could be broken up over Feron and not Shepard...if she was truly in this dark place, because she loves and misses Shepard...then why not go with Shepard, and sort it all out on the Normandy...if the very fiber of her being, is that she loves and misses Shepard with all her heart and soul...then wouldn't going with Shepard, no matter what Shepard is now, be more important then anything? Liara isn't going to figure out what Cerberus did to Shepard, or what Shepard has become, by sitting in her office.

If we go by the story, Liara is telling two different stories to people.  Hell, she may even be lying to herself.  The thirst for vengeance is a terrible thing and it may be clouding her mind.  She may not even herself know fully why she is doing what she is doing.

[screwoffreg]

Well, if there is more story DLC we will hopefully see something of it at E3. This time next year, we will probably be PLAYING the expansion. Then hopefully late 2011 we will finally get to finish the story....so about a year and a half left...hopefully, before we see the end.

[Unata]

I for one will always choose one Beautiful Blue, Dr. Liara T'Soni, there is no other character from either ME1 or ME2 that appeals to me.

[screwoffreg]

It makes me wonder if Shepard's body was so damaged, what the collectors might have wanted with it? They don't need ONE more human for their Reaper machine. Maybe they planned to revive him themselves and turn him loose in the Galaxy, a sort of Trojan Horse even worse than Saren...

[scmadsen]

JaylaClark wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Reading the dialogue from when Liara hands the corpse over to Cerberus, I still can't quite get my head around it. No matter how many times I read it, it still seems contradictory to the "I couldn't let you go" from ME2.

Help me out here someone, it may be the fact that I'm really tired and it's starting to affect my thinking.

That is it, I can't help it, this is as far as I can go without saying it, can't even make it through the last two pages even  --

CALM.  THE.  ****.  DOWN!!!!!

(Seriously, you've been so broken up all day that I've been picturing you with the knife hovering over the wrists.  And dear GOD I wish I was exaggerating.  And for comparison, I saw the reaction to the summary and I faked a stomach virus attack so I could go into the restroom and cry for ten minutes.  Thank the Maker that vigna posted his/her take on it later.)

What I read is this -- the way they're describing it, there might very well not be any of her Shepard left.  She (as per my rule, I speak of Shepard as femShep) might not come back right -- she might be just something shaped like the Shepard LiLi knew.  And if that were true, better to let her rest in peace rather than have her walking around bastardizing the memory of Commander Shepard with a pale imitation.  (As well, whatever you think about the human soul applies here -- and by 'human' I mean 'sentient, sapient being' for the sake of argument.)

"I couldn't let you go" was ... well, Shepard.  What they found, if they couldn't work a thermodynamic miracle, wouldn't be Shepard.  So she went nuts on the chance to save her, which is what happened in the comic.  But if what came off that table wasn't truly Shepard...

Son of a B!TCH, this is actually explaining that kiss!  And the distance!  She reacts without thinking to the sight of her lost love, then her fears flood back and she's damn careful about how she says a thing for the duration of the first conversation... less so for the second, and the third is the only one I feel entitled to b!tch about because she opens up fully, and Shepard should have said a little more, at least our Shepards should've.

Okay, I'm gonna think about this some more, but ... wow.

I'd really like to think this is the case...that Liara is just scared out of her mind, what Shepard is now, what Cerberus did to her love, and what's going to happen with their relationship once all this drama with the Collectors settles down...but as I said before...why didn't she drop everything and go with Shepard? She isn't going to figure out what Cerberus did to Shepard and what Shepard has become, by sitting in her office.

[screwoffreg]

Cartims wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Go with ME2, 100% People need to realise that the presentation in the comic is so poor and contradictory, that you can't really take any of it serious and at face value.

I mean, look at how it doesn't depict Liara handing over the corpse to Cerberus as such a massively traumatising, guilt inducing soul destroyer. It's ridiculous.

The bottom line is, they screwed up by not having Liara state all of her motives for hunting the Shadow Broker, and didn't show all of the emotions and suffering and guilt she's had to deal with for two years, as it's showcased in ME2. ME2 makes it plainly clear that Liara is suffering, and it's because of her love for Shepard. Redemption shows only little of that.

Trust the game, and nothing else, Do not take the comic at face value.

To play devil's advocate here...Liara could be broken up over Feron and not Shepard...if she was truly in this dark place, because she loves and misses Shepard...then why not go with Shepard, and sort it all out on the Normandy...if the very fiber of her being, is that she loves and misses Shepard with all her heart and soul...then wouldn't going with Shepard, no matter what Shepard is now, be more important then anything? Liara isn't going to figure out what Cerberus did to Shepard, or what Shepard has become, by sitting in her office.

If we go by the story, Liara is telling two different stories to people.  Hell, she may even be lying to herself.  The thirst for vengeance is a terrible thing and it may be clouding her mind.  She may not even herself know fully why she is doing what she is doing.

Or the writers may not even know what they're writing

lol, sometimes I start to think that myself...