50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiannawolf]

Hmmm, well that other comic series might be ok, as long as they do thier own story and dont involve Shepard and such.

[Nynaeve]

@les



My thoughts:



According to the comic, it seems Liara wanted Shep's remains for closure alone, never really believing Cerberus could bring him/her back. It is my belief that Liara began letting Shep go at this point. As I said before it's hard losing someone you love, without the adding false hope that they may one day return.

Liara then puts all her thoughts and energy in taking down the SB with a vengeance, determined to save Feron and get some sort of revenge over the death of her lover. 2 YEARS pass with this being Liara's sole purpose in life. Believing Shep is gone she moves on. Her love for Shep is ultimately displaced into her tireless efforts to avenge both Shep and Feron. Her respect for Feron growing all the while, seeing that he sacrificed himself for her own closure. Is it not possible these feelings for Feron could have perhaps grown? I mean come on 2 years is along time, for all she knew Feron was long gone, but still she aches to avenge or save, So much so it becomes more important than helping her resurrected former lover save the galaxy????? She makes excuses in-game about being watched and that she can't talk etc etc. shakes her head after the kiss...

This could all be interpreted as her having let you go already?

Its not a full theory, but to me it seems to make sense. She realises just how mush Feron did to aid her and is fuelled by her want to avenge him. Maybe not necessarily because she feels for him romantically, but lets face it Feron has been the driving force behind her 2 years of plotting (not that Shep wasn't)

[screwoffreg]

Feron did kind of screw up several times, one on purpose, when it came to getting Shepard's body right? Not a real sympathetic type...

[scmadsen]

JaylaClark wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

We're grasping at straws here, because what we got today was total crap. We've all been reaching at anything that could somehow explain what's going on. You can't fairly assess a situation without looking at the whole picture and spectrum of possibilities. This includes both the hyper negative and positive.

... okay, this is true.  ISH.  I stand by what I said, it still plays into a genuinely realistic interpretation of things.  (Especially if one is a recovering Catholic like myself.)

But the problem with the hyper-negative and the hyper-positive is that some people can't fit both of them in their perspective.  Les, you can't see the worst, and sc, you don't seem to be able to see the best, at least today.  (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

And I think I've found myself chastising the Paul McCartney and John Lennon of the group again.  (Can't decide who that makes me.)

I can't look at the positive today, because I'm a bit sad...but I will see it in time, and I've been reading what people are saying, and my synapses are firing, but, it's easier to look at the negative when you feel sad. I've always been a big picture person...that can be harmful as well as helpful...as while I can see the positive, I also look at the deeply negative. I guess it's because of my own pain in my past. But that doesn't matter.

[screwoffreg]

frij wrote...

@les

My thoughts:

According to the comic, it seems Liara wanted Shep's remains for closure alone, never really believing Cerberus could bring him/her back. It is my belief that Liara began letting Shep go at this point. As I said before it's hard losing someone you love, without the adding false hope that they may one day return.
Liara then puts all her thoughts and energy in taking down the SB with a vengeance, determined to save Feron and get some sort of revenge over the death of her lover. 2 YEARS pass with this being Liara's sole purpose in life. Believing Shep is gone she moves on. Her love for Shep is ultimately displaced into her tireless efforts to avenge both Shep and Feron. Her respect for Feron growing all the while, seeing that he sacrificed himself for her own closure. Is it not possible these feelings for Feron could have perhaps grown? I mean come on 2 years is along time, for all she knew Feron was long gone, but still she aches to avenge or save, So much so it becomes more important than helping her resurrected former lover save the galaxy????? She makes excuses in-game about being watched and that she can't talk etc etc. shakes her head after the kiss...
This could all be interpreted as her having let you go already?
Its not a full theory, but to me it seems to make sense. She realises just how mush Feron did to aid her and is fuelled by her want to avenge him. Maybe not necessarily because she feels for him romantically, but lets face it Feron has been the driving force behind her 2 years of plotting (not that Shep wasn't)

It would be a good theory but she knew Feron like a WEEK.  If she fought by his side for months I can see her pining after him.  Cmon though....a week?!

I do think her feelings have somewhat chilled though, which is why ME 3 will probably, as so many have said, involve re-romancing if you choose to.  Or you can tell her to frak off, to use a BSG term.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 08 avril 2010 - 01:19 .

[JaylaClark]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Jayla I'm not being hostile or confrontational at all. I'm merely rebuking what I see as baseless assertions against my favourite character. Surely you can understand my frustration, and where I'm coming from? What people are alledging about Liara has no basis in fact, just wild, jealous fantasy.

I can, but seriously, you seem beyond worked up about it.  And ... remember?  Sc isn't someone who showed up off the Garrus forum to taunt us and leave.  Sc is angry at the fact that the comic seems to answer nothing, and definitely doesn't tell us we're getting our precious LiLi back.  You're ripping him/her to shreds over this and getting madly upset in the process.

Then again, it is past midnight where you are.  I can't blame you for being stressed, right?

[scmadsen]

Somebody1003 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

We're grasping at straws here, because what we got today was total crap. We've all been reaching at anything that could somehow explain what's going on. You can't fairly assess a situation without looking at the whole picture and spectrum of possibilities. This includes both the hyper negative and positive.

Which I would understand, IF there was any merit or evidence for these baseless accusations. There isn't, so I refute these slanderous claims against Liara's character. You don't be hyper positive or hyper negative for the sake of it, you find justification or evidence for these views. There aren't any.

I just think your getting a little too defensive though.

A tad yes, but that's fine. You have the right to say whatever you want. Although, I wouldn't invent something that isn't hinted at, even if ever so slightly. It's a long shot...but going on what we have been given, can you truely blame others or myself for thinking this?

Again, it's such a big shock and letdown, not because of the character
of Liara, whom we all love...but the writers and what weird ass way they
want to go. I'm mad at them, not Liara.

Modifié par scmadsen, 08 avril 2010 - 01:21 .

[screwoffreg]

Also I find it hard to believe the last two years have been about Shepard. Let's be honest here, if the Shadow Broker REALLY wanted Liara dead, he can't get it done in TWO years? He's that much of an absolute failure? He obviously isn't trying very hard.



As for Shepard, at least the original dialogue from the game had her trying to help you with the Collectors. She doesn't help you at all in ME 2, so they marginalized her even more. She is honestly useless as you could probably find out where Samara/Thane were just by poking around yourself.

[jlb524]

I honestly don't believe Liara loves Feron more than Shepard. I had a thought that her 'love' of Feron is just real love for Shepard projected onto him. Her love of Shepard drove her daily to search for the body, and after it was found and was found to be dead, that 'drive' and 'love' had no object, so it got displaced onto Feron.



She's confused, she doesn't know what's going on in her heart and then the real Shepard shows up....whoa!! That's some heavy stuff.

[screwoffreg]

jlb524 wrote...

I honestly don't believe Liara loves Feron more than Shepard. I had a thought that her 'love' of Feron is just real love for Shepard projected onto him. Her love of Shepard drove her daily to search for the body, and after it was found and was found to be dead, that 'drive' and 'love' had no object, so it got displaced onto Feron.

She's confused, she doesn't know what's going on in her heart and then the real Shepard shows up....whoa!! That's some heavy stuff.

You know what some heavy stuff...being dead for two years and realizing the entire Galaxy moved on without you.  The only people who cared about you end up being someone called the Illusive Man and Miranda, a rich snobby girl.  Talk about rough wake up call...

Modifié par screwoffreg, 08 avril 2010 - 01:23 .

[Nynaeve]

and to clarify I never said..."oooh Liara must fancy Feron" its just ONE of the things that popped into my head, I don't have a spreadsheet of rock hard evidence its just a possibility, really you can't put anything past Bioware these days...

[bjdbwea]

No one says that further comics need to feature Liara. Could just as well be that they've decided to milk the Tali fans next.

Also... everyone needs to calm down, accept where we are, and let's wait and see how things develop.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 08 avril 2010 - 01:24 .

[scmadsen]

JaylaClark wrote...

Les, sc, don't MAKE me unfriend you. Seriously, calm the frak down, PLEASE.

I'm clam here, Jayla. I bare no ill-will to anyone.

I as much as anyone here, want Liara and Shepard to work, want to see this turn around, and only wish to understand, what the hell the writers are doing. I'm upset at BioWare, not Liara or any of her fans.

Modifié par scmadsen, 08 avril 2010 - 01:30 .

[Nynaeve]

jlb524 wrote...

I honestly don't believe Liara loves Feron more than Shepard. I had a thought that her 'love' of Feron is just real love for Shepard projected onto him. Her love of Shepard drove her daily to search for the body, and after it was found and was found to be dead, that 'drive' and 'love' had no object, so it got displaced onto Feron.

She's confused, she doesn't know what's going on in her heart and then the real Shepard shows up....whoa!! That's some heavy stuff.

Yes, thats what I was trying to say, though could't seem to put it into words...all her past feelings for Shep, totally projected onto Feron

[jlb524]

bjdbwea wrote...

No one says that further comics need to feature Liara. Could just as well be that they've decided to milk the Tali fans next.

Tali's potentially dead though.  The comic cannot be about her.  Or Garrus, or Ashley, or Kaidan, or Wrex, or ....

...it has to be Liara.

[jlb524]

frij wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I honestly don't believe Liara loves Feron more than Shepard. I had a thought that her 'love' of Feron is just real love for Shepard projected onto him. Her love of Shepard drove her daily to search for the body, and after it was found and was found to be dead, that 'drive' and 'love' had no object, so it got displaced onto Feron.

She's confused, she doesn't know what's going on in her heart and then the real Shepard shows up....whoa!! That's some heavy stuff.

Yes, thats what I was trying to say, though could't seem to put it into words...all her past feelings for Shep, totally projected onto Feron

Exactly.  She might think that she indeed has feelings for Feron but she really doesn't.  In a sense, she's saving Shepard's body again by trying to save Feron.

[JPfanner]

My problem with a scenario involving Liara letting Shepard go and developing an unrequited crush on Feron based solely on one event is that the justification needed to enable it also deconstructs it. Liara is shallow and flighty enough to get over Shepard after they've entered into a union together and they might be coming back to life shortly. She's flighty and shallow enough to develop a fantasy based crush on someone she barely knew. Shouldn't she be flighty and shallow enough to dump that fantasy the second the real thing walks through the door?



I just can't see Liara being emotionally configured to where she'd ever be considered shallow or flighty. Everything she says in ME1 indicates the extreme opposite. She's talking about true love.



The scene on Illium is crazy and frustrating. Liara doesn't say what she should. Shepard doesn't say what they should. It isn't because of anything at all to do with either of them. Bioware's design choices were that the ME1 LI's were not going to be squadmates and the ME1 romances were not going to pursuable content. Shepard are Liara are both obtuse puppets in that scene on Illium. Just like I'm sure all the Ashely and Kaiden people scream and shake their first when they get to experience their own "content" Bioware provided.

[ratzerman]

jlb524 wrote...

I honestly don't believe Liara loves Feron more than Shepard. I had a thought that her 'love' of Feron is just real love for Shepard projected onto him. Her love of Shepard drove her daily to search for the body, and after it was found and was found to be dead, that 'drive' and 'love' had no object, so it got displaced onto Feron.

She's confused, she doesn't know what's going on in her heart and then the real Shepard shows up....whoa!! That's some heavy stuff.

Very true.  Also, lets all keep in mind that Liara isn't exactly the most mature and rational person in the ME universe.  She showed signs of havng an obsessive personality in the first game, but it came off as cute and endearing.  Now we're seeing the flipside of that cuteness.  She's obsessed withkilling the Shadow Broker.  She's obsessed with finding Feron.  She didn't turn down the offer to join Shepard because it made sense.  She turned it down because she's not thinkiing clearly.  For god's sake.... at one point, she was going to kill all the potential Observers.

[screwoffreg]

JPfanner wrote...

My problem with a scenario involving Liara letting Shepard go and developing an unrequited crush on Feron based solely on one event is that the justification needed to enable it also deconstructs it. Liara is shallow and flighty enough to get over Shepard after they've entered into a union together and they might be coming back to life shortly. She's flighty and shallow enough to develop a fantasy based crush on someone she barely knew. Shouldn't she be flighty and shallow enough to dump that fantasy the second the real thing walks through the door?

I just can't see Liara being emotionally configured to where she'd ever be considered shallow or flighty. Everything she says in ME1 indicates the extreme opposite. She's talking about true love.

The scene on Illium is crazy and frustrating. Liara doesn't say what she should. Shepard doesn't say what they should. It isn't because of anything at all to do with either of them. Bioware's design choices were that the ME1 LI's were not going to be squadmates and the ME1 romances were not going to pursuable content. Shepard are Liara are both obtuse puppets in that scene on Illium. Just like I'm sure all the Ashely and Kaiden people scream and shake their first when they get to experience their own "content" Bioware provided.

Well Ashley couldn't seem to get a date and Kaiden barely moved on.  Both of them send you nice notes if nothing else.  Also they aren't involved in ridiculous vendettas and are moving up through the ranks of the Alliance...

[JaylaClark]

Okay, I finally saw the original analysis.

And, if york is reading at this hour?  Got this to say:  "In retrospect, you probably shouldn't have posted the quick summary.  In retrospect, of course, World War I was a pretty bad idea, so... absolutely no worries.  We just weren't prepared to handle the capsule very well."

Still, I appreciate york for making the effort... but there were a few people so braced for a major earth-shattering explanation that they decided that Liara 'having feelings for' Feron had to be the major shocker.  And took the 'can't understand human obsession with resurrection' as part of it.

Whereas I saw york's in-depth quotes and saw someone -- adding the suggestion that she looked broken up when she said 'It might have been better not to bring Shepard back at all' or the like -- who went through an amazing amount of trouble, and sacrificed someone who proved himself to be a worthy 'human being', only to be told that ... she might have done it for nothing.

This satisfies me as an explanation ... it's not the shocking reveal that people were expecting, but ... hell, comic books lie a lot.  Ask Linkara.

[screwoffreg]

ratzerman wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

I honestly don't believe Liara loves Feron more than Shepard. I had a thought that her 'love' of Feron is just real love for Shepard projected onto him. Her love of Shepard drove her daily to search for the body, and after it was found and was found to be dead, that 'drive' and 'love' had no object, so it got displaced onto Feron.

She's confused, she doesn't know what's going on in her heart and then the real Shepard shows up....whoa!! That's some heavy stuff.

Very true.  Also, lets all keep in mind that Liara isn't exactly the most mature and rational person in the ME universe.  She showed signs of havng an obsessive personality in the first game, but it came off as cute and endearing.  Now we're seeing the flipside of that cuteness.  She's obsessed withkilling the Shadow Broker.  She's obsessed with finding Feron.  She didn't turn down the offer to join Shepard because it made sense.  She turned it down because she's not thinkiing clearly.  For god's sake.... at one point, she was going to kill all the potential Observers.

To be honest on almost all my newer playthroughs I don't even bother with the hacking quest.  The nature of ME 2 is such that if it is really important, you can always go back and do it.  Otherwise, I just get what I need from Liara and move on (Thane/Samara).  What's the point to just dead end at "thanks for the hacking, l337".

[Debi-Tage]

At least Liara and Sheps relationship was aknowledged by Kasumi. This implicates in the very least that the devs have taken notice of the lackluster reviews by the fans in regards to the LIs. It is on their mind, and perhaps at this very moment they are producing dlc or an expansion to address all of the problems.



This is as positive as I can be right now!