50907 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Noxis6 wrote...

I like the parts were you can argue with her makes the whole scene seem more well "alive"
Sadly as with everything in the Liara reunion it doesnt go far enough and lacks options for Shepard,too.

I agree, even the 'argument' parts needed some work, but at least they infuse some Shepard emotion into the scene.  They're also the closest we can get in game to the 'troubled second act' of the romance.  Not picking these options leaves us with the 'bored second act' of the romance:  

'OK Liara, I'll go hack some terminals for you.'  'I hacked the terminals.'  'I'll talk to you later Liara.' 

[Krogan Face]

Liara was by far my fav LI in ME, and i still love her cute nose, it  gets me everytime.
thats not to wierd i hope....

I never really cared for her as a squad mate in ME, but now that BW made her all tough in ME2 shed fit in a bit more as a squad mate imo , so sure!

Modifié par Krogan Face, 26 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[WilliamShatner]

justinnstuff wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...

I like the parts were you can argue with her makes the whole scene seem more well "alive"
Sadly as with everything in the Liara reunion it doesnt go far enough and lacks options for Shepard,too.

I was sad to see how reactionless Shepard was during that encounter. I was like "wow that was it?". I was so excited when I got to Illium and they mentioned Liara wanted to see me.

My reaction was a lot more colourful and involved many death threats, references to cutting off limbs and shoving them into multiple orifices and accusations of Oepidus-esque tendacies.

[Slakky]

Driveninhifi wrote...

The reason this thread isn't very long is because there isn't much to her appearance in the game.

There's also the whole thing about a radical change to a character without the accompanying character development. Moving that part to the comic really hurts her appearance because it doesn't seem quite believable.
Shy scientist is now angry and strong-arming people? It's a bit much to believe without more details about what happened to her. I totally buy her being driven and obsessed, but a quiet, icy and intense determination fits her character way better than the "coffee cup" line.
In my mind, the only thing that should be able to elicit that reaction from her would be Shepard's death. If she were purely avenging Shepard, I'd have no issue. I'd also buy the anger if she showed it AFTER the "I couldn't let you go" conversation and Shepard told her she was selfish to give the body up. In that case her old life really is over and she has nothing to live for but destroying the Shadow Broker. Shepard's really her only friend - she has noone else, and if Shepard brushes her off she really is totally alone.
Conversely, if Shepard affirms her choice, then that really needs to have a big impact on her. She needs to begin to let go of her guilt, begin to hope again, etc. The game missed an opportunity to show some real depth here and it's worse off because if it.

^^^Thread manifesto.

Of course it also drives us to dig around and figure out what the hell just happened.  Which is in its own perverse way more satisfying for Liara fans.

[ratzerman]

Before this thread slips into another pit of despair.... keep in mind that Redemption is still selling out, and is now on a second printing. Let's face it.... the comic kinda sucks. People aren't buying it because of the beautiful artistry or the phenomenal writing. They're buying it because of Liara. She's still a popular character. Her fanbase is sort of in limbo right now, not knowing where her character is headed. Ash and Kaidan.... their futures are pretty much set in stone. Liara's is anything but. So her fans are stuck nervously wondering what will happen to her next.



Plus.... don't forget that Bioware is pure evil.

[Nozybidaj]

Littledoom wrote...

Well Noz is the harbinger of doom and gloom you should know that by now (no offence meant Noz), but she/he/it have a point. But we have to try to have a little hope even if it's hard now and then.

/shrug Fine, I'll leave you guys to your happy little fantasy land.

[vigna]

Deamon023 wrote...

Shame on me, I cutted down gaming time to check this forum, I blame the lovely blue godess for beeing so cute

My Laptop is on my coffee table and I have a wireless controller. I imagine PC gamers have it even easier.

[JPfanner]

Well even the hacking missions are all weird. For the first one you have a Neutral option to agree to do it and a Renegade option to refuse to do it...but then you get Renegade points for doing it. Then on the second one you have a Neutral option to agree to do it and a Paragon option to refuse to do it...but then you get Paragon points for doing it.

So I guess that hacking terminals for information is a Renegade action but hacking terminals for information on who to kill is a Paragon action.

Did anyone else look at Nyxeris's desk and try to figure out how she gets behind it?

[vigna]

Krogan Face wrote...

Liara was by far my fav LI in ME, and i still love her cute nose, it  gets me everytime.
thats not to wierd i hope....

I never really cared for her as a squad mate in ME, but now that BW made her all tough in ME2 shed fit in a bit more as a squad mate imo , so sure!

No she looks like she has a cold. Which is cute for some reason. A shame her freckles and nose color are almost non-existant in ME2.

[maikanix]

Driveninhifi wrote...

The reason this thread isn't very long is because there isn't much to her appearance in the game.

There's also the whole thing about a radical change to a character without the accompanying character development. Moving that part to the comic really hurts her appearance because it doesn't seem quite believable.
Shy scientist is now angry and strong-arming people? It's a bit much to believe without more details about what happened to her. I totally buy her being driven and obsessed, but a quiet, icy and intense determination fits her character way better than the "coffee cup" line.
In my mind, the only thing that should be able to elicit that reaction from her would be Shepard's death. If she were purely avenging Shepard, I'd have no issue. I'd also buy the anger if she showed it AFTER the "I couldn't let you go" conversation and Shepard told her she was selfish to give the body up. In that case her old life really is over and she has nothing to live for but destroying the Shadow Broker. Shepard's really her only friend - she has noone else, and if Shepard brushes her off she really is totally alone.
Conversely, if Shepard affirms her choice, then that really needs to have a big impact on her. She needs to begin to let go of her guilt, begin to hope again, etc. The game missed an opportunity to show some real depth here and it's worse off because if it.

Right. Even people who have played ME1 misunderstand her. Either they miss the famously missable options, or they simply don't see enough reason for her to stay. The depth just isn't there. 

That's very true. Shepard was really ALL Liara had. Romance or no. She spent all of her time alone. To be frank, she really had no friends. Being a pure-blood didn't help I'm sure. Then Shepard died, and she tried to rescue him. In the process she got Feron, her only other 'friend', killed or captured.

So, you could wonder whether or not she's overwhelming herself with guilt. Her friends fall apart while she's watching. TIM is manipulating her. The shadow broker is evading her. You come along and ask her to go along, but what is she supposed to say? Something more than what she said, I agree...but still. It's some good speculation.

I dunno. I was always fascinated by this distant, tragic look in her eyes:

[Driveninhifi]

Yeah, it's clear that she's overwhelmed with guilt. And that's really an interesting place to take the character.

There's a big problem with the implementation in game though: if Shepard really cares loves her, or even cares about her, his/her reactions in game aren't realistic at all. The love case especially doesn't make any sense - that's just not likely how someone would naturally react.

It feels to me like they either a) ran out of time or really wanted the push the "rocky" relationship at the expense of it being believable.

I also think the more Shepard and Liara talk about their relationship the less believable Liara staying on Ilium becomes, so they may have tried to sidestep that.

Ash/Kaidan's relationship with Shepard should be rocky and heavily conflicted. They had no idea Shepard was coming back and have moved on.

Liara very clearly _has not_ moved on. She's not really angry at Shepard at all - I'd say she still loves the Commander very much. She's angry at herself.

There was a lot of interesting stuff to explore with her in ME2: her love/feelings for Shepard vs her guilt/anger. That's really the conflict here. Does she really want to let Shepard head off and get killed again? Really, these things should tear her apart internally and the game doesn't let you go into it. The subtext of the suicide mission is what makes this compelling, and once the Collectors are blown to bits there really isn't any more conflict as Shepard can accompany her to wipe out the Shadow Broker.

Sure they have to spend time together and Liara has to get comfortable enough to open up again. I'm not sure how long that would take as it makes sense that Liara would really want to rediscover their relationship. Definitely shouldn't be a long as the normal relationship arcs have been thus far.

[Raanz]

Sorry to get you all off topic, but maybe you can help me out.

I am looking for a good reference shot of one of the dresses they use in either game. Long dress, looks like it has holes cut into it....looks like the skirt part hangs way low on the waist..almost like a thong with a long skirt attached. Sorry I am not very good at describing it, and if I knew where in either game I could find it, I wouldn't bother you.

I have an idea for a piece of Liara/Asari fan sketch but I can't find a picture of what I am talking about anywhere.



Thanks in advance for any help.

[Pineappletree]

'Dis one?









Or 'dis one?

[Noxis6]

The whole scene really lacked a lot of things,for Liara I missed something some signs that she regrets what she is doing or at least doesnt like it,might be because I'm not good at reading between lines but I never found something like that,but got plenty of lines out of her boasting how good she is at her new job.



But Shepard is the bigger failure in the scene,not only because you cant bring up the past relationship.

Its just awful,theres no reaction to Liaras change at all,you would expect something like shock or worry.I mean for her/him all this must be pretty shocking while two years have past ingame I doubt Shepard feels that way for him/her its just getting blown out of the Normandy and the next moment waking up on a Space Station full of crazy robots.

And another thing thats not really exclusive to the Liara scene but something I get quite often in ME2.

I cant just imagine a at least a paragon just going along with certain things,like Liaras second quest,where you can mildly protest and then do it anyway that would have been the perfect place for starting an argument that could have climaxed in the whole confession about giving the body to Cerberus.

Even a renegade could have provoced her with something like "Just kill them all and dont annoy me with it"would be really interesting to see what her reaction to this would have been.

[vigna]

FdL_Ananas wrote...

'Dis one?




Or 'dis one?

Is that a PC game mod?

[Raanz]

Les: yeah I had that one in mind...but I thought there was one a little different then that.



FdL: that second one you posted...is really close to one I was thinking about. Maybe I was making it up in my mind Is that the same garb that the dancers at the VIP lounge in ME2 were wearing?



Thanks for the posts....maybe I will go with a bastardized version of the one Les and FdL posted.

[JPfanner]

Driveninhifi wrote...
Sure they have to spend time together and Liara has to get comfortable enough to open up again. I'm not sure how long that would take as it makes sense that Liara would really want to rediscover their relationship. Definitely shouldn't be a long as the normal relationship arcs have been thus far.

Yep, especially considering that this is exactly what she has been hoping for during the two year wait.  Plus it hasn't been two years for Shepard.  Most importantly though I think is the melding.  The fascinating thing about a relationship with Liara is that neither one can lie about they feel.  Once they meld all that is laid open.  It really is a relationship where terms like "us" and "the whole being greater than the sum of its parts" really do apply.  And questions like "How does she really feel about me?" can be answered.

[Pineappletree]

vigna wrote...

Is that a PC game mod?

So to speak, yes. It's an addition to the main config file of ME2.

Raanz wrote...

FdL: that second one you posted...is really
close to one I was thinking about. Maybe I was making it up in my mind
Is that the same garb that the dancers at the VIP lounge in ME2
were wearing?

.

Hmm, not sure. The Asari that welcomes you on Illium wears the same, allthough in other colors...

[Raanz]

FdL_Ananas wrote...

vigna wrote...

Is that a PC game mod?

So to speak, yes. It's an addition to the main config file of ME2.

Raanz wrote...

FdL: that second one you posted...is really
close to one I was thinking about. Maybe I was making it up in my mind
Is that the same garb that the dancers at the VIP lounge in ME2
were wearing?

.

Hmm, not sure. The Asari that welcomes you on Illium wears the same, allthough in other colors...

right on.  Thanks again.