50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Noxis, that doesn't mean it's a criminal empire. What that means is that she has hired muscle, probably for strongarming the less savoury people that make up her clients who refuse to pay. That doesn't mean she likes it, has them killed, or even necessarily harms them in any way. It's an awful and unfortunate element to the business that she sees as a necessity in order to accomplish her goals. Like I said before, the fact that she seems to resist violence and bloodshed as much as possible is admirable, particularly working in the seedy and dangerous world of intrigue. Regarding the hit squad, like I said it's likely that she may have only needed to use that for whenever she had to actually kill a Shadow Broker agent for her safety, and the only occasion we know of in which that is certain is with the Observer. That doesn't mean she employs a hit squad and has people killed on a regular basis.

Like J said before, I think it's highly likely that Liara earns virually all of her income from the criminals, thieves and pirates that make up alot of her clients. If a mother who had lost her child came to Liara looking for information, then it's almost a certainity that Liara would provide that information for absolutely free, given her compassionate nature. Look at how she provides Shepard with information about Thane and Samara for absolutely nothing, and doesn't expect anything in return either.

I doesnt change the fact that these are criminal actions in the end,if your the member of a streetgang and kill the member of another streetgang its still murder in the end,you can argue she may have reasons and I dont deny that but in the end it doesnt change what her actions and methods are.
Besides her line of work labels her a criminal,depending on the information she sells you could charge her for dealing with insider knowledge up to treason,as explained Illiums corrupt atmosphere presents it all in a better light,look at this world slavery is legal,you can deal red sand as long as you have license for it etc.
Plus if I might add I dont trust Mac Walters at all after that last Issue.

As to how often she uses that hitsquad I guess we have to resort to speculations again,also if that what you propose is really Liaras buissines model falls also under speculation.
Also what her less saivoury clients can cause because of what she sells them well in the worst case,it would be blood of innocents on her hands,being highly hyphothetical here,but bear in mind she doesnt get a good reputation in her line of work for selling faulty info to such groups

[morrie23]

Love your Mac Walters sig justin, very apt.

[Eddie-Hawke]

Ah yes, "last night". A time where desperate Liara fans started raging and jumping ship over awful writing and contradictions. I think we're good to dismiss that claim.

[sumof all fear]

Good to still see other people who want liara back in the game.

[ratzerman]

*peeks head in thread*

How are things in here today?  Everything cool? 

[Blansten]

To me the comic once again left everything up to interpretation, much like the game. If you want to believe the worst you can or you can just as easily see a more positive spin.



I continue to believe that this will resolve in ME3 with the ability to salvage and continue the romance. BW has said this would happen for the ME1 LIs and I don't think that plan has changed. The writing has been horrid and the character has been mangled but not beyond salvation IMO.



My Sheps still trust Liara and will remain loyal to the end.

[bjdbwea]

Whatever happened, the thing that really matters is in the title of this thread: A proper role for Liara in ME 3. Maybe, just maybe, this thread will help to that end. There is a predecent after all, though there's no way around the fact that this thread is not nearly as frequented, and not as annoying and pestering.

What really annoys me is that the video game industry is in such a bad shape, and that so many people are so stupid and superficial today, that no other company seems to be able or willing to try and create games of the kind that BioWare used to. That's the main reason I'm stuck with BioWare/EA, by now I would love to be able to turn my back on them.

Still, if they screw us again with ME 3, and if the rest of the game is more of the same of ME 2, I wouldn't buy it. Then the Mass Effect saga for me starts and end with ME 1, or perhaps with my own imagined version of the Illium reunion. Thankfully I have no problems with "outdated" graphics and can always play one of the gems of old instead.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 08 avril 2010 - 02:15 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Y'now, the hardest thing about sharing a computer is that you really only have time to read the things that other people have to say before the other people who use it start staring daggers at the back of your head, thus precluding the chance to actually contribute to the discussion. Which sucks.



Oh, and Eddie Hawk? Your sig looks like it says you're supporting the Liara and Kasumi <i>pairing</i>, tell me I'm not right. It's suppose to be a sig supporting the two characters as individuals, correct?

[Asheer_Khan]

Liara is displeased over yesturday's events on this forum.

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 08 avril 2010 - 02:19 .

[Eddie-Hawke]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Oh, and Eddie Hawk? Your sig looks like it says you're supporting the Liara and Kasumi pairing, tell me I'm not right. It's suppose to be a sig supporting the two characters as individuals, correct?

I see where you're coming from, but no. I wouldn't be writing Shep/Liara fanfiction if I believed anyone else should be paired with Liara.  Kasumi happens to be my Shep's new BFF.

[Nynaeve]

Hello everyone.

I do not wish to bring up the whole debate that was yesterday again, just wanted to say that even though I do not post regularly I have followed both this and former Liara support threads from their creation. I love Liara as a character and she will always be my Sheps numero uno.

I just feel there was a lot of needless attacking when a few people expressed their opinions on here yesterday with demands to justify our opinions as if they weren't valid unless they were irrefutable, basically "prove the validity of your viewpoint or ****** off with your incorrect assumptions!"

I always liked the Liara threads, everyones really great and supportive and the general community are fantastic. Though some of the things that were said yesterday has led me to believe that should you dare go against the general consenus and look at things from another angle, attacking will ensue.

I cannot really recall any such slandering towards Liara from anyone, though that was accused, along with quite incessant name calling. Really guys???

Anyway I wish to brush off this debacle and will return to the shadows whence I came.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Noxis, the thing is though is that the only time we've ever, 100% seen her actually kill someone working as an information broker is for the purposes of self defence. The Observer was a threat to her life, for her own safety he or she must have been stopped. Plus, this isn't the first and only time Liara has killed before. She did plenty of that in ME1, again in self defence. Does that make her a criminal and a murderer? No, it makes her a soldier.

I'm agreeing with you to a certain extent, but I really don't think "criminal" is the correct terminology here. She's working in a morally grey and corrupt field out of sheer necessity. Criminals work and act for their own personal benefit with no morals, values, principals, clear goals, and very often to make money for their own self-benefit. Something that isn't the case with Liara, she's only doing what is absolutely necessary, as evidenced by Nyxeris saying that Liara could wield even more power if she wanted to, which shows that Liara is only doing what she feels she has to do, and is not in the field for personal gain at all. I don't know which term would be more appropriate, but I don't believe it is "criminal".

Regarding Liara's hitsquad, we can only go under what's presented in-game. And that shows her only ever resorting to use it once, and for her own self defence as the Observer is a threat to her life. The fact that she is so reluctant to kill and create bloodshed, as evidenced by her not resorting to take the easy method with the 5 Observer suspects and eliminate them all, show's that Liara is reluctant to kill and I think this is evidence that the hitsquad is rarely used, possibly for only this once time with the Observer.

Regarding Liara's business model, I think there's evidence for that. We know that Liara has not allowed her morals, values and principals to be compromised in the two years she's been working as an information broker, that is evident in her reluctance to kill innocent people. Couple that with Liara giving information to Shepard for absolutely nothing, and neither expecting or demanding anything in return. Add that to Liara's compassion, and I think it's highly likely that Liara would give away information to innocent people with noble intentions for it's use for absolutely free. This is Liara talking about, her compassion and empathy is enourmous, and she'd still want to help the innocent and needy even whilst working in a corrupt and seedy field like the world of intrigue.

Regarding the information Liara gives out being used to harm innocents, I don't think Liara would do that. She's an intelligent woman, do you not think she uses her sources to run background checks on her more abhorrent clients to be absolutely sure that the information she gives will not be used to harm of kill innocents? She'd never do anything like that, she's too intelligent, compassionate and empathetic to do so. Just because she's forcing herself to work in this field, does not mean she has to stoop to the criminals' level. She evidently still maintains her moral compass and values, and I think that is admirable.

Killing on a battlefield is totally different thing,from what we are dealing with here and noone questions that Liara is able to kill or to fight.
On her being a criminal I guess we can agree to disagree here,I still think her actions speak quite for that.
As for Nyxeris line,I think someone pointed it out earlier its quite vague and can be interpreted in different ways,you could also say she put her "career" on hold for dealing with the SB,though I dont really want to believe that.
As for her buisiness model or if she really runs background checks on her clients I guess its all interpretation,in the end even she has to make a profit to keep her operation running and pay her thugs and we dont know how far she is willing to go to see the SB dead.
You may have your interpretation of things based on what Liara was on ME1,but I have my doubts that it matches with Mac Walters vision for Liara,the scenes in ME2 and the comics have really shown how much that guy cares about ME1,lets just say I have a bad feeling about this.
I just hope they dont decide to use her as protagonist in the next comic series,that would be a sure trip to cameoville in ME3 and we dont even need to talk about Liara DLC then,I hope they use completely new characters with no link to Shepard,the ME Universe is big enough after all

[Unata]

Good Morning folks!





I'll be over there ---> in the reading section, maybe toss my 2 credits in now and then

[Blansten]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Blansten wrote...

To me the comic once again left everything up to interpretation, much like the game. If you want to believe the worst you can or you can just as easily see a more positive spin.

I could understand that, if the "cheating Liara" hysteria had any basis in fact and wasn't just wild, frustrated assertions by people upset and confused with what ammounts to crap writing and terrible mis-scripting. Seriously, all people had to do was listen to what Liara says in ME1 and ME2, analyse it a little, and realise that the comic should not be taken at face value due to it's contradictions with what's presented in ME2, and Liara's obvious deep feelings and guilt based on her love for Shepard in ME2, and her fear Shepard will hate her. It just seriously got on my nerves that because Liara didn't state her full motives for hunting the SB at the end of Redemption, and it didn't depict what should have been an intensely traumatic and guilt inducing decision for Liara to hand the body to Cerberus, as was shown in ME2, that people misconstrue and go "OMG LIARA DOESN'T LOVE SHEPARD SHE'S A CHEATER". It's frigging annoying that the comics' poor scriptwriting is causing people to act and think in this manner, and make slanderous accusations about Liara's character that have no basis in fact.

I view things much as you do. I came away from the game disappointed that there wasn't more interaction, but with the belief that Liara very much loved my Shep and went to great lengths to save him/her.

I guess my point was that the writing requires the player to fill in many blanks and not everyone will do that in the same way.

Better writing is what was required. Liara is a great character, just at the moment one that requires more work on the part of the player than others in the game.

[Eddie-Hawke]

frij wrote...

Hello everyone.
I do not wish to bring up the whole debate that was yesterday again, just wanted to say that even though I do not post regularly I have followed both this and former Liara support threads from their creation. I love Liara as a character and she will always be my Sheps numero uno.
I just feel there was a lot of needless attacking when a few people expressed their opinions on here yesterday with demands to justify our opinions as if they weren't valid unless they were irrefutable, basically "prove the validity of your viewpoint or ****** off with your incorrect assumptions!"
I always liked the Liara threads, everyones really great and supportive and the general community are fantastic. Though some of the things that were said yesterday has led me to believe that should you dare go against the general consenus and look at things from another angle, attacking will ensue.
I cannot really recall any such slandering towards Liara from anyone, though that was accused, along with quite incessant name calling. Really guys???
Anyway I wish to brush off this debacle and will return to the shadows whence I came.

It was damn-near terrifying how everything just went to hell so suddenly.  I recall a lot of people rage-quitting, or threatening too.  Other people decided the comic summary had told them Liara didn't care, while few others were trying to tell them they were wrong, or at the very least explain that the whole thing is subjective.

Key word = subjective.

I didn't bother posting last night (It was night for me, here in Australia) because no one was getting anywhere with their conversations anyway. Plus ME1 kept me grounded.

[AndroLeonidas]

On a different note... does anyone use a controller for their PC version. I so hate using the mouse. It really sucks. If so... do you use that xpadder program or what?

[Jashanti]

Please everyone who sees this click on it

http://social.bioware.com/brc/1720569

[Unata]

Cartims wrote...

Jashanti wrote...

Please everyone who sees this click on it
 

And if you see my arse.....kiss it

Hehehe, You tell em Cartims!