50907 réponses à ce sujet

[ratzerman]

jlb524 wrote...

ratzerman wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

We were second-class forum citizens.

..... a caravan of gypsies, wandering from thread to thread, seeking acceptance, but finding nothing but hatred and contempt.  All we ever wanted was to recapture what had been unjustly taken from us; a thread to call our own.

Oh, do you remeber in the one thread when a dev finally posted and didn't lock it!  It was when I asked for that holiday present, just one screen shot of Ash/Kai/Liara.  The dev was basically like, 'No, we already told you those three aren't going to have big roles so SHUT UP!!'

Yeah, that was awesome!  Oh... oh.... remember when one dev locked our "not a love thread at all" thread for length, and told us to start a new one?  Then another, more evil dev locked the new one we made?  So we got all sad, and Javy was like WTF? and made a new one to shut us up? And then the evil dev locked than one too, and was like NO! ENOUGH OF THIS! NO MOAR!  Ahhhhh...... memories.

Modifié par ratzerman, 08 avril 2010 - 05:58 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

No, your "glasses of pessimism" are causing you to ignore facts and dialogue presented in-game.

And Im afraid to say Enfants, your glasses of Optimism are causing you to create facts that arent actually there in the dialogue.

Simply put, I think sometimes you are guilty of reading far more into it than is actually there.

Ultimately Liaras role in ME2 is an excuse to keep her of out the game. You can try and attribute great character development to it if you want, but really when it comes down to it, its a bare bones excuse.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 08 avril 2010 - 05:57 .

[jlb524]

ratzerman wrote...

Yeah, that was awesome!  Oh... oh.... remember when one dev locked our "not a love thread at all" thread for length, and told us to start a new one?  Then another, more evil dev locked the new one we made?  So we got all sad, and Javy was like WTF? and made a new one to shut us up? And then the evil dev locked than one too, and was like NO! ENOUGH OF THIS! NO MOAR!  Ahhhhh...... memories.

I like when we hijacked that 'I'm glad there aren't ME1 LIs in ME2' thread.  If it is ever announced that the ME2 LIs won't be returning as ME3 squad mates, someone needs to start a thread titled, 'I'm actually kind of glad there aren't ME2 LIs in ME3', and list a little manifesto in the frist post, giving 10 reasons why it's great the ME2 LIs are cameoed        

[Crimmsonwind]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

No, your "glasses of pessimism" are causing you to ignore facts and dialogue presented in-game.

And Im afraid to say Enfants, your glasses of Optimism are causing you to create facts that arent actually there in the dialogue.

Simply put, I think sometimes you are guilty of reading far more into it than is actually there.

Ultimately Liaras role in ME2 is an excuse to keep her of out the game. You can try and attribute great character development to it if you want, but really when it comes down to it, its a bare bones excuse.

Maybe, but a) they're supposedly keeping her out so that she can return and it's nice to dream.

[screwoffreg]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

No, your "glasses of pessimism" are causing you to ignore facts and dialogue presented in-game.

And Im afraid to say Enfants, your glasses of Optimism are causing you to create facts that arent actually there in the dialogue.

Simply put, I think sometimes you are guilty of reading far more into it than is actually there.

Ultimately Liaras role in ME2 is an excuse to keep her of out the game. You can try and attribute great character development to it if you want, but really when it comes down to it, its a bare bones excuse.

I have a feeling it was just rushed writing as well, considering that more over the dialogue in game doesn't even match the motives in the comic.

They scrapped an original idea for Liara and perhaps even how the game was supposed to play out.  It's disappointing our favorite character received the brunt of the "axe" but I hope they are refocusing on Liara for the DLC and last game and giving her the story she deserves.  As of right now, to be honest, I can almost see her as a jerk as a lot of people do, which shouldn't be the case.  

Like I said, if I could avoid talking to her on Illium altogether I would.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 08 avril 2010 - 06:01 .

[jlb524]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

And Im afraid to say Enfants, your glasses of Optimism are causing you to create facts that arent actually there in the dialogue.

Simply put, I think sometimes you are guilty of reading far more into it than is actually there.

Ultimately Liaras role in ME2 is an excuse to keep her of out the game. You can try and attribute great character development to it if you want, but really when it comes down to it, its a bare bones excuse.

I worry the same thing...since Liara's character is likely to get reset for ME3, the things that happened with her in ME2 were just fluff and filler to keep her out of your squad.    This stuff will be convenielty forgotten about if it contradicts something they've added for Liara in ME3.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Maybe, but a) they're supposedly keeping her out so that she can return and it's nice to dream.

Yeah its nice to dream, but its not nice to hope for dreams to come true and then see them stamped on. I know, because in the early to mid build up for ME2, thats what happened to me.

I called it right, and guessed that all we were going to get in ME2 was the reason why Liara cant join up (I just didnt think it would be so crap).

[JPfanner]

jlb524 wrote...
What do you all think Liara will do after this whole mess is over?  Will she continue on the Information Broker path, possibly gaining political power to rival the power her mother once had?  Or, will she return to her geeky archaeological ways?

We know she enjoys the latter career but do we think there are aspects of the former she also likes?

I really don't see her staying in exactly the same role no matter what.  She's definitely good at it and might even enjoy the problem solving aspects of it.  I don't think she likes the shady parts she has to deal with as a consequence of her sideline of hunting the Shadow Broker.  There are some other information brokers in the novels, but the only point of reference for what they do in the game is the Shadow Broker.  It isn't necessarily a criminal occupation by any means, kind of like information age detectives.  So really Liara has two jobs and I could see her possibly keeping her hand in some of the public aspects of it.

There's still a lot of archaeology work to be done though.  The protheans have a lot of information and technology that could provide a lot of benefits if unravelled.  They duplicated the mass relays and a had a whole technology path based on psionic communication devices. I could see her kind of combining the two and using her Prothean expertise and information/organizational skills to more actively pursue archaeology.  Instead of being by herself looking in ruins, she'd organize and lead entire expeditions with a whole staff of people.  Maybe even make it into a business.

[screwoffreg]

Liara's original role of supposedly helping you against the Collectors made more sense than what she is doing now. At least in that case there was a thin but believable justification for what she was doing. Now its just pure vengeance. She let go of Shepard but she can't seem to let go of Feron who, lets be honest, is dead as hell if the story was realistic at all (two years? the same time Shepard was gone?).

[ratzerman]

jlb524 wrote...
I like when we hijacked that 'I'm glad there aren't ME1 LIs in ME2' thread.  If it is ever announced that the ME2 LIs won't be returning as ME3 squad mates, someone needs to start a thread titled, 'I'm actually kind of glad there aren't ME2 LIs in ME3', and list a little manifesto in the frist post, giving 10 reasons why it's great the ME2 LIs are cameoed 
       

Thy will be done!

[Crimmsonwind]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Crimmsonwind wrote...

Maybe, but a) they're supposedly keeping her out so that she can return and it's nice to dream.

Yeah its nice to dream, but its not nice to hope for dreams to come true and then see them stamped on. I know, because in the early to mid build up for ME2, thats what happened to me.

I called it right, and guessed that all we were going to get in ME2 was the reason why Liara cant join up (I just didnt think it would be so crap).

Have you seen the earlier pages in here? It's a good amount of hopeful fuff XD

I'm sure that we'll be somewhat disappointed because of the high bar we've set, and I'm sure others realize this too. But that's just the nature of the thread  We're a bunch of hopeless fools. <3

[JPfanner]

screwoffreg wrote...
Liara's original role of supposedly helping you against the Collectors made more sense than what she is doing now. At least in that case there was a thin but believable justification for what she was doing. Now its just pure vengeance. She let go of Shepard but she can't seem to let go of Feron who, lets be honest, is dead as hell if the story was realistic at all (two years? the same time Shepard was gone?).

What DOES make sense in ME2?  That would be one hell of a short list.

[JaylaClark]

Oh lord, someone chloroform les and jlb until I get home so I can explain why there actually ISN'T a contradiction with that line? I'm worried they may kill each other beforehand...

[ratzerman]

Somebody1003 wrote...
Did Chris priest do the :devil::devil: thing on the old forums too?

Oh yeah, he sure did.

[screwoffreg]

JPfanner wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...
Liara's original role of supposedly helping you against the Collectors made more sense than what she is doing now. At least in that case there was a thin but believable justification for what she was doing. Now its just pure vengeance. She let go of Shepard but she can't seem to let go of Feron who, lets be honest, is dead as hell if the story was realistic at all (two years? the same time Shepard was gone?).

What DOES make sense in ME2?  That would be one hell of a short list.

Yeah, Liara's story has plot holes bigger than most anything else in ME.

First, how did she even become so powerful an info broker?  She says people wanted to be her friend, but why would they want that when she crossed THE most powerful broker in the Galaxy?  If the SB considered her threat, why not just kill her early?  She wasn't being protected by ANYONE, not even Cerberus.  He can't afford to send waves of mercenaries against her? In a rational view, that means he doesn't consider her a threat, though I am sure Bioware will somehow explain it away as "welp he forgot". 

I think the Illusive Man's words may have been right if it turns out that perhaps Liara is working for the SB against her will.  What if the SB sees her as nothing more than a convenient way to view Shepard's progress and possibly influence him.  What other reason does he have to keep her around so long and let her get so much power in such a short time?

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I understand where you're coming from Dink. But every single one of my theories and what I say about Liara is based upon what I can actually see and hear in the game. Liara tells you she was afraid you'd hate her for handing over the body. She tells you she handed the body to Cerberus for the sole reason that they say they can rebuild you. She tells you that she did this because she couldn't let you go. To me, that's pretty powerful stuff, and a perfect window into how much Shepard means to Liara, and how she's devoted to and deeply in love with Shep.

I can admit that you can't the exact same lines regardless of LI status is absolutely crappy presentation. But it's there, and you have to assume that Liara has strong romantic feelings for Shepard regardless of reciprocation.

All of what I've said is fact is in the game. Liara's desire to go with Shep on the Normandy, her dislike and hate for working as an information broker. I'm not pulling all of this out of nowhere. It's there in the game, clear as day.

Liaras cameo is also all "cant" and "wont", and that cant be dismissed just because she utters a few lines about wanting to join, and not being able to let Shepard go.

You can pore over the details of the dialogue, but it wont change the fact that Liaras cameo is 100% about why she cant join. Bioware must have been in such a hurry to smash the player over the head with that, they absolutely failed to make it achieve anything else.

I ask you, is there one SINGLE line hinting at anything in the future? The only thing that even talks about Liaras future is how it could take years, but she wont stop hunting.

Like I said, I called it right before ME2 even came out. Casey promised romance continuation. What we got was an excuse as to why that is exactly what we wouldnt get.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 08 avril 2010 - 06:19 .

[screwoffreg]

Let us hope whatever happened during ME 2's development doesn't happen in ME 3. We can't afford another "oh crap, rewrite that quick" moment.

[screwoffreg]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Screw, her motive is more than Feron though. It's just it's badly frigging mis-scripted at the end of the comics. Liara even says herself in ME2 "For what he did to my friend, and to you, and whatever he's doing with the Collectors". Why the last issue of Redemption didn't address all that what Liara states in ME2 I don't know. And judging by the way she almost bursts into tears in ME2 when she finally opens up and reveals what happened to Shepard, it's easy to attribute alot of her desire to end the SB is due to the hurt, pain, guilt and grief she suffered over what's happened to her and Shepard, and that by ending the SB Liara feels that she can ease her pain and be happy again. It's why we're artificially prevented from properly comforting her in-game. What better way and person to ease her pain than the person she loves?

It's why I feel it's going to be tackled and handled extensively in the Liara DLC. It's their contrived way of maintaining the status quo into Liara's DLC, where we'll be able to comfort and console her, Liara will open her heart to Shep and we'll be able to rekindle the romance.

I actually HOPE you are right.

From my view as an entirely amateur writer, I just see the signs of "rush rush rush deadline" all over this.  They slapped on an emotional moment to distract us from "holy sh** we have to get this stuff done before launch and the VO actors come".  The voice actor of Liara even said they dropped the script on her and she had no knowledge beforehand of where her character was supposed to go, much to her surprise.  It sounded like they didn't know until the last moment what they were doing with Liara, as Ashley and Kaiden were much easier to deal with (I HATE CERBERUS). 

I hope I am wrong, as I said.  I'd like to think this would be resolved soon and if you are right, I will be more than happy to humbly admit my failing!