50907 réponses à ce sujet

[screwoffreg]

I don't see the Feron romance route at all. I just see the dark obsession route being more realistic, the whole idea of "lets turn Liara into something people will be SHOCKED by".



I just find it ludicrous that a scientist all of a sudden becomes a massive crime lord in two years without ANY real opposition, especially from the SB. There is SOMETHING else going on here or that is a major plot hole.

[JaylaClark]

By the way, 'out of timeline' as my RPing friends call it, I had this bit here in the comment section in DeviantArt (specifically, wingedmoggy's Shepard is Grateful):

Jayla Clark -- "Okay, just quoted Liara's puppeting in the Liara-squadmate thread in the
BioWare Social Network --which... kind of exploded after the summation
of Redemption 4 hit the site -- and credited you. Because someone is
STILL insisting that Liara has no reason to keep at what she's doing...
*sighs*"

WingedMoggy -- "Eeee, I'm flattered! And that someone is a fool! Clearly they have no
understanding of Liara's a)obsessive personality, love for (whether
requited in 1st game or not) and subsequent devotion to Shepard, c) how
the combination of these two things, coupled with the fact that she lost
a friend, and ended up giving Shepard to an organisation she knew had
their own agenda /because she couldn't accept Shepard's death/, has
resulted in her feeling guilty as hell and desperately wanting to redeem
herself by catching the Shadowbroker.

In a way I guess she
feels that she's already caused enough trouble by acting on her
Shepard-related emotions, so she needs to put them aside now that
Shepard's back in action, and focus on ridding herself of her feelings
of guilt. If she doesn't do that she'll just obsess over it anyway and
drive everyone up the wall.

Or something
Feel free to
quote that if you want XD"

Jayla Clark -- "You know what?  I will.  Thanks. :)"

[jlb524]

Maria Caliban wrote...

IIRC, Shepard's spirit would 'join' with the universe. It's less heaven and more nirvana, yes?

That's assuming that she follows whatever the asari religion is called. We know she swears by the goddess, but that could just be a figure of speech.

That would be the religion 'siari'.   It would be less like a 'heaven' and probably more like a nivana as you mentioned, and I'm not sure how asari would feel about pulling a spirit back from this 'nirvana' and shoving it into a body again.  Would it even be the exact same 'spirit' that was Shepard?  That makes it even more difficult to to fathom than just Shepad having an individual soul that goes somewhere but remains differentiated from other 'spirit matter'.

With the monotheistic goddess religion, it's not clear exactly what form of afterlife they believe in, if they believe in any at all.  The codex doesn't go into detail.

[JaylaClark]

jlb524 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

IIRC, Shepard's spirit would 'join' with the universe. It's less heaven and more nirvana, yes?

That's assuming that she follows whatever the asari religion is called. We know she swears by the goddess, but that could just be a figure of speech.

That would be the religion 'siari'.   It would be less like a 'heaven' and probably more like a nivana as you mentioned, and I'm not sure how asari would feel about pulling a spirit back from this 'nirvana' and shoving it into a body again.  Would it even be the exact same 'spirit' that was Shepard?  That makes it even more difficult to to fathom than just Shepad having an individual soul that goes somewhere but remains differentiated from other 'spirit matter'.

With the monotheistic goddess religion, it's not clear exactly what form of afterlife they believe in, if they believe in any at all.  The codex doesn't go into detail.

Yeah, I'm going 'Shepard never discussed what she believed in' in my personal fic.  But some have said that swearing by the Goddess could be a throwback, like all the "Oh my God"'s people keep saying in ME1 and 2.  Even today, it really doesn't mean what it used to.

[ratzerman]

screwoffreg wrote...

I don't see the Feron romance route at all. I just see the dark obsession route being more realistic, the whole idea of "lets turn Liara into something people will be SHOCKED by".

I just find it ludicrous that a scientist all of a sudden becomes a massive crime lord in two years without ANY real opposition, especially from the SB. There is SOMETHING else going on here or that is a major plot hole.

Nope.  There is no Feron romance.  Sure, some of her actions might make more sense if you assume she's in love in Feron.  But there's simply no basis for it.  There isn't one remotely romantic moment in all of Redemption.  It's just.... no. 

And I vote for MAJOR plot hole, btw.  Mac Walters is a hack.
<_<

Modifié par ratzerman, 09 avril 2010 - 01:22 .

[Crimmsonwind]

I wouldn't say Mac Walters is a hack. I'd say he was ill-equipped to tackle this particular project, and that there was a lot of pressure to try and milk the hype that the upcoming Mass Effect 2 was generating, which created a somewhat cheap and fairly useless piece of story, in the grand scheme of things.

[JamieCOTC]

I made this!







Full size -> Liara Art



Thanks!

[JaylaClark]

Crimmsonwind wrote...

I wouldn't say Mac Walters is a hack. I'd say he was ill-equipped to tackle this particular project, and that there was a lot of pressure to try and milk the hype that the upcoming Mass Effect 2 was generating, which created a somewhat cheap and fairly useless piece of story, in the grand scheme of things.

Whereas I still think it can be illuminating.  Yes, I'm talking about the comics.  No, I am not on drugs.

[ratzerman]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I made this!



Full size -> Liara Art

Thanks!

Wow!  That is beautiful!  I love it.  Thanks so much for sharing it with us, Jamie.  I'll be sure to leave a comment on deviantart too.  Thanks again!

[jlb524]

That's awesome Jamie!!! What is the design of her necklace?

[jlb524]

That's awesome Jamie!!! What is the design of her necklace?

[JamieCOTC]

jlb524 wrote...

That's awesome Jamie!!! What is the design of her necklace?

I just made it up w/ the Prothean art in the Kasumi DLC in mind. Thanks, all! 

[JaylaClark]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

/self-snip

This. My god, this! It's the theory I've been trying to put forward all along, Liara is trying to redeem herself by going after the SB, and she feels that ending him will ease her of her pain and guilt for what she's done, and everything that's happened to Shepard. It's why we're artificially prevented from comforting her in-game, because they need to maintain this current character arc for the DLC, which is where it will be tackled. If we were given the ability to comfort Liara, and help ease her pain, she'd be right back on the Normandy at Shep's side.

I'm glad wingedmoggy shares the same theory I do.

She (I think -- did say her avatar is a self-portrait) has it more head on in my mind, even.  Liara is strong-willed, clearly, probably to the point of stubborn in fact.  She could well think that she needs to do what she needs to do just because it's her mess, she needs to clean it up.

I'm kind of glad that I can make a post that actually meshes with sc's last post that I saw, by the way, off of a quote of yours.  Are we starting to come together?  Maybe?  

EDIT -- the last post I saw, being the last one I quote-commented on.   I am all over the place tonight.

Modifié par JaylaClark, 09 avril 2010 - 01:39 .

[JPfanner]

It is nice, drawings of Liara are always smooth. She looks all calm, the calm before the smoochies!

[JaylaClark]

Okay, I feel like I'm only a third done as it is -- yeah, this is supposed to be for a mini-fic -- but for some reason I have to get comments on my opening.

Liara pulled back from the hug slowly, sensing something was
wrong.  “Shepard?” she asked, hesitantly,
looking carefully into the eyes of her lost love… then pulling back with a
start.

“Oh, Goddess… what have they
done to you?[/i]” she gasped, staring at Alyna’s eyes, which were not the
vibrant green she remembered, but … glowing fiendishly red, and as vacant as
the rest of her expression… as vacant as a Husk…

“Nothing, Liara,” said Alyna in an emotionless monotone, “I’m
… better than ever…”

“NO!”

Liara jolted awake.

No clue what I'm titling it.  Please, restrain your laughter.  Mostly, anyway.

EDIT -- Weirdness of paste.

Modifié par JaylaClark, 09 avril 2010 - 01:46 .

[Blansten]

JaylaClark wrote...

By the way, 'out of timeline' as my RPing friends call it, I had this bit here in the comment section in DeviantArt (specifically, wingedmoggy's Shepard is Grateful):

Jayla Clark -- "Okay, just quoted Liara's puppeting in the Liara-squadmate thread in the
BioWare Social Network --which... kind of exploded after the summation
of Redemption 4 hit the site -- and credited you. Because someone is
STILL insisting that Liara has no reason to keep at what she's doing...
*sighs*"

WingedMoggy -- "Eeee, I'm flattered! And that someone is a fool! Clearly they have no
understanding of Liara's a)obsessive personality, love for (whether
requited in 1st game or not) and subsequent devotion to Shepard, c) how
the combination of these two things, coupled with the fact that she lost
a friend, and ended up giving Shepard to an organisation she knew had
their own agenda /because she couldn't accept Shepard's death/, has
resulted in her feeling guilty as hell and desperately wanting to redeem
herself by catching the Shadowbroker.

In a way I guess she
feels that she's already caused enough trouble by acting on her
Shepard-related emotions, so she needs to put them aside now that
Shepard's back in action, and focus on ridding herself of her feelings
of guilt. If she doesn't do that she'll just obsess over it anyway and
drive everyone up the wall.

Or something
Feel free to
quote that if you want XD"

Jayla Clark -- "You know what?  I will.  Thanks. :)"

I like this theory, it fits the comics and the game. 

Which writer wrote the Liara character in ME?

[scmadsen]

Cheating is subjective. Having a crush on someone, is it cheating? Caring about, falling for someone, but not having sex, is that cheating? All subjective. Unfaithful? Again, just another word. They can imply the heck out of it though, that's what they are doing. They are trying to make us fully cheat/ be unfaithful to Liara. And it worked on alot of people. So yea, they are laughing at us. I'm angry about that. They hurt and taunt the faithful for stupid and cheap reason.

Modifié par scmadsen, 09 avril 2010 - 01:51 .

[JaylaClark]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

What you also have to do is look at it from a logical standpoint too.

They test your loyalty to the ME1 LIs in ME2. They've already said that cheating will have dire consequences in ME3. If they have Liara cheat, then why would any player feel compelled to remain faithful to her? Why would it be viewed as a bad thing when Liara has done exactly the same? It wouldn't make sense at all.

"Here, we're testing your loyalty to Liara. Whatever you do, try not to cheat on her. Oh, and Liara's cheated on you lol" Where's the sense and logic in that?

True... and I'm going to play angel's advocate here, I think it's healthier to start from your reasoning and move darker from there, rather than start from WCS and debunk everything.  This is because whatever we think of Mac's job, he's spackling holes in the story left and right, as we speak, as evidenced both by generous interpretations of Redemption (like my own) and such content as Kasumi, which finally acknowledges Liaramancers exist, no matter what you think about her choice of tense.

So to assume the worst and try to disprove it... you're not going to find it everywhere, even if it's supposed to be there, because like I may have said earlier, Mac gets an incomplete grade on the story, because it's just... not... finished.