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[JaylaClark]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Chiming in sort of late in the conversation, but after following it for the last couple hours I felt I needed to add my 2 credits worth.

I am so far out on the fence with this and very confused as to what to think. But there is one thing I am not confused about, and that is how angry I am becomming at the writing. There are holes and contradiction a plenty between what we have been presented in the game and the story in the comic series. Things that just don't jive, like Liara's story started off being written by one person, then was taken over by someone else with a whole different view on things. That is how it seems anyway, at least for me. I don't expect everyone to agree, but there it is.
I am starting to really doubt that I will like where they are taking us with Liara, it seems like we are being yanked around and led down opposing paths. And by the Goddess I hope they do something to give us real answers, in game. I hope I am not sounding too pessamistic, I am just so emotionally involved at this point which could be good or bad.

The problem I see, Sunnie, is that we're seeing subjective truths as facts, and counting them as contradictions.  Plus we kind of love Liara a LOT.  Could you tell?  Thing is, like I said, the comic couldn't be very definitive about anything about Shepard and Liara's relationship at all, so it wasn't going to satisfy many questions at all.

[LordBronco]

You know, it *has* been 2 years since ME1.



Sheppie did croak big-time...



I'm just saying, Miranda could be the Illusive Man's Daughter...



Via accelerated vat cloning processes and a dalliance with...



LIARA T'SONI!!!!



The truth hurts, peeps-Don't let the Lies continue!!!!



Liara Broke my heart! :-(

[JaylaClark]

scmadsen wrote...

Upbeat puts it mildly, I think. I was a pretty rabid defender of Liara. Something I think some people forget.

No, I personally don't forget!  That was the shock of it, you were telling us your worst fears were realized, can you understand why I was crying yesterday?  If you lose hope, then we've lost about thirty percent of all the hope remaining in group!

[scmadsen]

JaylaClark wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

Upbeat puts it mildly, I think. I was a pretty rabid defender of Liara. Something I think some people forget.

No, I personally don't forget!  That was the shock of it, you were telling us your worst fears were realized, can you understand why I was crying yesterday?  If you lose hope, then we've lost about thirty percent of all the hope remaining in group!

Aww, that's sweet, in a weird way. But you give me far too much credit. I still remember you getting upset at me for attacking that troll the other day.

[JPfanner]

John Jackson Miller is also credited as a writer for all four comics. That's why I assumed there was like a general script written by Mac as an ME writer, which Miller would have then translated into the comic medium. I don't know for sure, just something that seems to make sense.

[JaylaClark]

scmadsen wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

Upbeat puts it mildly, I think. I was a pretty rabid defender of Liara. Something I think some people forget.

No, I personally don't forget!  That was the shock of it, you were telling us your worst fears were realized, can you understand why I was crying yesterday?  If you lose hope, then we've lost about thirty percent of all the hope remaining in group!

Aww, that's sweet, in a weird way. But you give me far too much credit. I still remember you getting upset at me for attacking that troll the other day.

Well, it was kinda due to your enthusiasm about Liara, right?  Still, I think I'd filed that under 'good intentions'.

[screwoffreg]

JPfanner wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

@JPfanner

Good advice, and I'll take it.

Yeah, I wasn't arguing or anything.  Just makes me sad to see you kind of down when you were all upbeat before.  And that comic isn't worth getting down about that much.  It does suck a bit because it could have been better, Liara deserved better, and not too selfish to think that we deserved better.  But any Liara fan can endure a few bruises after ME2.

I think Bioware is aware we are probably one of the smaller and most trod upon fan groups...I just hope they plan to drop us a line at some point! We were almost drowning there for a bit...

[JaylaClark]

JPfanner wrote...

John Jackson Miller is also credited as a writer for all four comics. That's why I assumed there was like a general script written by Mac as an ME writer, which Miller would have then translated into the comic medium. I don't know for sure, just something that seems to make sense.

Yeah, this makes sense.  Every panel needs to have a description and what words, if any, are present, in the script, and I don't even see Mac having the time to do that.  So JJM was co-writer, probably 'translator', and we all know things get lost in translation...

Jayla approves +5 (Current approval of Mac:  -35 Dislike)

[scmadsen]

JaylaClark wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

Upbeat puts it mildly, I think. I was a pretty rabid defender of Liara. Something I think some people forget.

No, I personally don't forget!  That was the shock of it, you were telling us your worst fears were realized, can you understand why I was crying yesterday?  If you lose hope, then we've lost about thirty percent of all the hope remaining in group!

Aww, that's sweet, in a weird way. But you give me far too much credit. I still remember you getting upset at me for attacking that troll the other day.

Well, it was kinda due to your enthusiasm about Liara, right?  Still, I think I'd filed that under 'good intentions'.

That was the only reason. I ignore trolls and flames, and avoid them whenever possible.

[JaylaClark]

@SC to avoid big pyramid --



Exactly! I just thought it was a tad preemptive in nature. (Though, to be honest, this is also subjective. I personally think the guy thought he would head off offense by saying 'no offense'... I also think he was ... kind of sillymoronic to think that.)

[Sunnie]

JaylaClark wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

Upbeat puts it mildly, I think. I was a pretty rabid defender of Liara. Something I think some people forget.

No, I personally don't forget!  That was the shock of it, you were telling us your worst fears were realized, can you understand why I was crying yesterday?  If you lose hope, then we've lost about thirty percent of all the hope remaining in group!

I would like to officially throw my support in here and strengthen the hope some more!  I am forcing myself to stay positive that what we have seen in game is really where we will end up. I do believe they did Liara, Shepard, and us a huge injustice by downplaying the meeting on Illium so flat and monotone, even after Liara just abotu breaks down into tears when she explains why she did what she did, after which is is just back to business as usual. GAH!

[Eddie-Hawke]

I just got my copy of Redemption #4 (For Australia, two days after the release isn't bad).



I'm just going to throw this out there; I didn't see Liara's comment to Miranda about not resurrecting Shepard as something said in a contradictory way. I felt it was more of a defeated thing. After going through so much to get Shepard, to be told that it was only a small possibility? It doesn't make sense for her to give up on the idea and it, to me, doesn't read that way either. With all that happened in the issues, I saw Liara's decision to try and save Feron as her saying: Right, now that I've done all I can for Shepard, I'll try to right the wrongs I committed.



That's just me, anyway.

[JPfanner]

Yeah, honestly it was a bit weird the other day that I seemed to be Miss Sunshine.

Lots of times I seem to disagree with the "Happy" theme. Explaining why I think Liara's father would be best off dead, that any living father would be an ass. Explaining why Liara could not have a secret love child without being a moron and morally reprehensible. Or just generally boring the majority of the thread when I start going on about genetics or physiology.

Still, like I said before, the comics didn't really affect what I thought. It was mostly just, "Huh, the comics suck after all. Oh well."

[JaylaClark]

Eddie-Hawke wrote...

I just got my copy of Redemption #4 (For Australia, two days after the release isn't bad).

I'm just going to throw this out there; I didn't see Liara's comment to Miranda about not resurrecting Shepard as something said in a contradictory way. I felt it was more of a defeated thing. After going through so much to get Shepard, to be told that it was only a small possibility? It doesn't make sense for her to give up on the idea and it, to me, doesn't read that way either. With all that happened in the issues, I saw Liara's decision to try and save Feron as her saying: Right, now that I've done all I can for Shepard, I'll try to right the wrongs I committed.

That's just me, anyway.

Me too, in general.  Though I agree with others that it wasn't very well done, I think it's near impossible to do it and make everyone happy.

[JPfanner]

Sunnie22 wrote...
I would like to officially throw my support in here and strengthen the hope some more!  I am forcing myself to stay positive that what we have seen in game is really where we will end up. I do believe they did Liara, Shepard, and us a huge injustice by downplaying the meeting on Illium so flat and monotone, even after Liara just abotu breaks down into tears when she explains why she did what she did, after which is is just back to business as usual. GAH!

Yep, really about the only constructive thing you can say about that interaction on Illium is that there is room for future development.  Which is a euphemism for 'it sucks now'

[scmadsen]

JPfanner wrote...

Yeah, honestly it was a bit weird the other day that I seemed to be Miss Sunshine.
Lots of times I seem to disagree with the "Happy" theme. Explaining why I think Liara's father would be best off dead, that any living father would be an ass. Explaining why Liara could not have a secret love child without being a moron and morally reprehensible. Or just generally boring the majority of the thread when I start going on about genetics or physiology.
Still, like I said before, the comics didn't really affect what I thought. It was mostly just, "Huh, the comics suck after all. Oh well."

I agree about Liara's father being better off dead. But I would really like there to be a love child out there somewhere. I really wanted Shepard and Liara to have a daughter from the night before Ilos.

[Eddie-Hawke]

JaylaClark wrote...

Eddie-Hawke wrote...

I just got my copy of Redemption #4 (For Australia, two days after the release isn't bad).

I'm just going to throw this out there; I didn't see Liara's comment to Miranda about not resurrecting Shepard as something said in a contradictory way. I felt it was more of a defeated thing. After going through so much to get Shepard, to be told that it was only a small possibility? It doesn't make sense for her to give up on the idea and it, to me, doesn't read that way either. With all that happened in the issues, I saw Liara's decision to try and save Feron as her saying: Right, now that I've done all I can for Shepard, I'll try to right the wrongs I committed.

That's just me, anyway.

Me too, in general.  Though I agree with others that it wasn't very well done, I think it's near impossible to do it and make everyone happy.

I completely agree that it wasn't well done at all, but I think we all knew it was going to bomb out anyway.

[scmadsen]

Sunnie22 wrote...

I would like to officially throw my support in here and strengthen the hope some more!  I am forcing myself to stay positive that what we have seen in game is really where we will end up. I do believe they did Liara, Shepard, and us a huge injustice by downplaying the meeting on Illium so flat and monotone, even after Liara just abotu breaks down into tears when she explains why she did what she did, after which is is just back to business as usual. GAH!

That has always been the big problem with ME2, it was Shepard and not Liara, we are given no real reason as to why we can not comfort Liara, or reply with anything meaningful or romantic.

Modifié par scmadsen, 09 avril 2010 - 04:04 .

[Sunnie]

scmadsen wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I would like to officially throw my support in here and strengthen the hope some more!  I am forcing myself to stay positive that what we have seen in game is really where we will end up. I do believe they did Liara, Shepard, and us a huge injustice by downplaying the meeting on Illium so flat and monotone, even after Liara just abotu breaks down into tears when she explains why she did what she did, after which is is just back to business as usual. GAH!

That has always been the big problem with ME2, it was Shepard and not Liara, we are given no real reason as to why we can not comfort Liara, or reply with anything meaningful or romantic.

Yes, exactly. On my first playthrough, I was so confused with the dialog options we are given, and the really uninterested tone of the whole thing. I kept yelling at the screen that I didn't want to say any of the things that were available!  But anyway, I am too much a romantic and way too attached to Liara I guess!

Modifié par Sunnie22, 09 avril 2010 - 04:09 .

[JPfanner]

scmadsen wrote...
I agree about Liara's father being better off dead. But I would really like there to be a love child out there somewhere. I really wanted Shepard and Liara to have a daughter from the night before Ilos.

Yep, and when I offer a contrary opinion on something like that I'm not arguing over who is right or wrong.  I hate even beginning to get into anything like an argument on the internet.  It is so pointless.  I just say what I think about it and then try to give some of the reasoning behind why I came to have that opinion.
Like when Jayla and I were discussing the degree of Joker's responspibility in Shepard's death, what obligations were owed to Joker, and what punishments would have been appropriate.  It's just something interesting to talk about, to see what other people think, and why.  I'm not really interested in being validated as right or proving someone else wrong.  That's just a silly thing to do on the internet in my opinion.

[JaylaClark]

scmadsen wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I would like to officially throw my support in here and strengthen the hope some more!  I am forcing myself to stay positive that what we have seen in game is really where we will end up. I do believe they did Liara, Shepard, and us a huge injustice by downplaying the meeting on Illium so flat and monotone, even after Liara just abotu breaks down into tears when she explains why she did what she did, after which is is just back to business as usual. GAH!

That has always been the big problem with ME2, it was Shepard and not Liara, we are given no real reason as to why we can not comfort Liara, or reply with anything meaningful or romantic.

That's definitely true ... we didn't get a good answer in the game in general (nor did we get an interaction that fits having unlocked the heart-pouring-out line ... or Shisk as Liara's receptionist as LiLi is buried in work or something), and the comic is subjective as heck from what I can tell.  Stubbs is still certain that we'll get something to patch that hole in DLC, whereas I am merely fairly certain, but it's a matter of opinion for sure.  And it does require optimism in addition to economics, no matter what he says... I'm hoping they ARE conscious that we'll pay good money for good content, though.

[Sunnie]

JaylaClark wrote...

scmadsen wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I would like to officially throw my support in here and strengthen the hope some more!  I am forcing myself to stay positive that what we have seen in game is really where we will end up. I do believe they did Liara, Shepard, and us a huge injustice by downplaying the meeting on Illium so flat and monotone, even after Liara just abotu breaks down into tears when she explains why she did what she did, after which is is just back to business as usual. GAH!

That has always been the big problem with ME2, it was Shepard and not Liara, we are given no real reason as to why we can not comfort Liara, or reply with anything meaningful or romantic.

That's definitely true ... we didn't get a good answer in the game in general (nor did we get an interaction that fits having unlocked the heart-pouring-out line ... or Shisk as Liara's receptionist as LiLi is buried in work or something), and the comic is subjective as heck from what I can tell.  Stubbs is still certain that we'll get something to patch that hole in DLC, whereas I am merely fairly certain, but it's a matter of opinion for sure.  And it does require optimism in addition to economics, no matter what he says... I'm hoping they ARE conscious that we'll pay good money for good content, though.

I would pay a premium price to get a DLC that puts the relationship with Liara back on track. Of course I am not exactly poor or living from paycheck to paycheck either so I understand that many would not want or even be able to pay that much. I'm just saying for me is all and agreeing with you in so many words. 

[scmadsen]

JPfanner wrote...

scmadsen wrote...
I agree about Liara's father being better off dead. But I would really like there to be a love child out there somewhere. I really wanted Shepard and Liara to have a daughter from the night before Ilos.

Yep, and when I offer a contrary opinion on something like that I'm not arguing over who is right or wrong.  I hate even beginning to get into anything like an argument on the internet.  It is so pointless.  I just say what I think about it and then try to give some of the reasoning behind why I came to have that opinion.
Like when Jayla and I were discussing the degree of Joker's responspibility in Shepard's death, what obligations were owed to Joker, and what punishments would have been appropriate.  It's just something interesting to talk about, to see what other people think, and why.  I'm not really interested in being validated as right or proving someone else wrong.  That's just a silly thing to do on the internet in my opinion.

You know my thoughts on Joker...I want to space that ungrateful little...I'd still be with Liara if it wasn't for him, and he can't even thank us or say he's sorry. EDI can fly the Normandy for me, I don't need Joker.

I wouldn't call it an argument as in fighting, but more in the philological and philosophical kind of argument. Even a bit of psychology. That's all this is.

[scmadsen]

Sunnie22 wrote...

I would pay a premium price to get a DLC that puts the relationship with Liara back on track. Of course I am not exactly poor or living from paycheck to paycheck either so I understand that many would not want or even be able to pay that much. I'm just saying for me is all and agreeing with you in so many words. 

I'd pay just about any price they would ask for, for that. I can afford it too, but others can't.