50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Unit-Alpha]

ratzerman wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

That's about all I can think of right now, but realizing this makes me a bit more optimistic about her role in ME3; if Bioware really loved her that much, then maybe (if the corrupt hands of EA of Mac Walters are kept at bay) she will have a great return in ME3.

Well, Casey Hudson did say that she's his favorite character, albeit in a round-about way.

That has to count for something, right?

I could never find that interview. Any hints as to where it was?

[JaylaClark]

scmadsen wrote...

I do not see us getting a Liara DLC, but we might get a Shadow Broker DLC...which will consist of us doing missions for Liara, to hunt down the Shadow Broker, find Feron, and perhaps kill the Shadow Broker. If we are lucky, we might even get Liara as a squadmate for the missions, but we might not as well.

A Liara DLC would be focused on Liara and the Shepard/Liara romance, the Shadow Broker simply being a mission or two. However with the comic, I now see BioWare taking it more mainstream, and just putting in mostly fighting with a little story, very little.

Thus we get a Shadow Broker DLC. After which Liara will make up a reason not to come on the Normandy, and she'll stay on Illium with Feron. And we'll have to do a mission in ME3 to pickup Liara, then mayeb another to make her loyal.

They might put out that romance DLC, but it will likely only be for ME2 romances. If we are very lucky, it might allow fixing Liara and Shepard, but I won't count on it.

They'll save it for ME3, if they even let us touch on it at all. Our reward you say? Well yes...our reward will be there, but it's going to be something along the lines of Liara kissing Shepard again, like in ME2.

Okay, I can see that, but I do think that there's a difference between DLC content and maingame content, and as negative as you are about the tense of the comment, Kasumi mentioning Liara when she's not even involved in her quests (as far as I can tell) seems to me to be a good sign that they'll put more content into a Liara/Shadow Broker DLC for us.  (Lines, anyway, maybe a better kiss if they can animate it.)

Truth be told, I think they may have forced one thing on us, that all Liarasexuals are 'on a break' with Liara, because she has important work to do -- I saw les's thought earlier, which seems to me to be a syllogism of "Reapers work with Shadow Broker", plus "Knowledge is power, and they knew everything about us", equals "We're borked if we don't find out what the Reapers have found out through SB", and not to be predictable, but I agree with that possibility -- and she can't be distracted by personal things even as Shepard really shouldn't be, either.  (Then again, remember, I always think from a military standpoint.  And the game often ignores why fraternization rules were made in the first place.  Still, it's logical.)  Even then, we've still got the picture, and even flirting with Kelly doesn't get rid of that.  (Though I think I'll actively flirt with Kelly with Anya, and keep Alyna totally faithful, to see the difference.  Arina, if I ever get her done, will also be a straight up example why Semper Fidelis is the Marines motto.)

Still, I wonder, are we up to what I was talking about last night?  That is, actually distilling the facts presented, not only in the game, but in the comic?  Or will that disturb the rachni nest?

EDIT -- Okay, I just saw Unit-Alpha did a very comprehensive list of facts... I'm not sure they're all objective, though, but they're all reasonable by my standpoint.

Modifié par JaylaClark, 09 avril 2010 - 10:37 .

[ratzerman]

Unit-Alpha wrote...
I could never find that interview. Any hints as to where it was?

It wan an audio interview.... I think it was the same one where he talked about ME2 being the "troubled" time in the 3 act love story.  But I don't have the link to it anymore.

[Unit-Alpha]

@Jayla: Yeah a few are a bit subjective, maybe I'll go back an indicate all which are subjective. Most of the subjective ones were, from the standpoint of an average person, pretty obvious.

[JaylaClark]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Ok, so I was thinking a bit on Liara and her position in the ME series, and I realized that she was objectively Bioware's most beloved character of ME1.

So here's my comprehensive list of reasons:

ME1: Storyline
>Receives an entire mission world (Therum) as one of the six mission worlds; only squadmate with this distinction.
>Directly tied to a second mission world (Noveria) by Benezia
>>Therefore, 1/3 of missions were tied to Liara
>Longest love scene

Writing/Voice Acting
>Only character with alternate dialog based on when she/he is recruited
>Most poignant scenes of any squadmate (see Benezia) ME2 gives Tali a run for LiLi's money, subjectively
>Only squadmate with completely unique and dialog tree-changing dialog during a mission (Noveria)
>Best/most humorous squad banter (See "sand" and "creepy tunnel" comments) Creepy tunnel isn't exclusively hers
>Only squadmate with heavy post mission dialog (See post-Noveria) This doesn't apply to late pickup games, for obvious reasons, though her first briefing after rescue is very heavily hers
>Note dialog similarities with Bastila in KOTOR

Technical
>Best facial graphics for alien race characters
>Most unique dialog animations (See dialog on Normandy/post-mission briefs)
>Most artistic and unique love scene
>>Introduction of new particle system, artistic flourishes

Other
>Most easily accessible within Normandy, indicates that devs wanted easy access
>>No elevator connection
>>Please note: Kaiden was also easily accessible Almost commented, just noticed you did
>Only squadmate with a separate room
>Closest locker if coming from the elevator

ME2: Storyline
>Only former squadmate with devoted area (Office on Illium)
>>Wrex had a throne, Ash/Kaiden had nothing Hmm, Garrus had one, Tali didn't...
>Only former squadmate with any missions
>Only invincible squadmate

Writing/Voice Acting
>Some of the most well-delivered lines of ME2 (subjective)
>Most dialog of any former squadmate

Technical
>Some of the best camera work for an NPC-- Subjective, of course
>Most devoted in-game assets for a former squadmate

Other
>Redemption comic with the most focus being put on Liara, bar none
>Redemption graphic novel as second release of comic

That's about all I can think of right now, but realizing this makes me a bit more optimistic about her role in ME3; if Bioware really loved her that much, then maybe (if the corrupt hands of EA of Mac Walters are kept at bay) she will have a great return in ME3.

Partially edited with my comments in italic.

This is a GREAT start.

[screwoffreg]

I agree that the second act is the troubled time, I just don't think the third act is going to lighten up. The war is about to become OPEN war, like ship to ship planet to planet. We are actually going to see real Reapers, I assume, in their full form as well as all their terrible servants.



No victory without sacrifice it seems. Nothing gained without something lost...

[screwoffreg]

Oh, and I wouldn't expect the Liara DLC to really touch the romance in a meaningful way beyond a few bits of extra dialogue, I hope, that at least give a glimmer of what is to come for an expansion and the final game...

[scmadsen]

@ Jayla



Yes, I remember what you wanted to go over, and I think we should do that. We might not get any answers from it, but it might help people understand things better. At any rate, it would help us build a list of grievances to post to BioWare.

[Unit-Alpha]

Fixed, I think I hit on most of your points, Jayla.



On this "Hmm, Garrus had one, Tali didn't..." Sorry, I meant former squadmate there.



Thanks for the edit!

[screwoffreg]

I wonder how many iterations of this thread we will go through before ME 3. Say we have a DLC on the horizon within six months or so, then an expansion in a year, then lets assume nearly another year for ME 3...



It will be sad to see these characters stories end, honestly. We have some time before that.

[JaylaClark]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Jayla, regarding what you said about my "Shadow Broker in deep with the Reapers theory" I've been thinking about it and come up with another little thought.

What I've already said is that the SB could provide information on all species, governments, colonies, militaries, economics. He could effectively give the Reapers a blueprint of galactic civilization, making there harvest alot easier.

But there's another way the SB could be a useful tool to them. Remember how in ME1 we're told of the enormous influence the SB has? That some of his information could topple governments if it were ever released. Now, imagine if, just as the next Reaper invasion is at hand, the SB strategically releases this information, creating massive amounts of upheaveal, great distrust amongst the sapient species, and sway decision makers into making certain choices. The chance of a unified army of the galaxy's sapient species would be virtually nil, and make the Reapers' next invasion that much easier.

Agreed, and it's a valid theory that having SB as an agent would do a lot of damage, potentially.  The thought is that he'd probably have to be indoctrinated to pull that off well, or else otherwise compromised.

To toss sc a bone here, this doesn't explain the anger Liara has entirely.  (Though I think it would contribute to it.)  Thing is, I think the anger may be one of my Schrodinger's Cat concepts -- it can't be entirely explained by objective canon, because objective-canon Liara doesn't have the same experiences.  I would theorize it can slide from losing her love all the way to losing her love, if you know what I mean ... then again, as les pointed out in a PM (hope you don't mind me mentioning it), there's more objective evidence to indicate a budding relationship between Tali and Kal'Reegar than with Liara and Feron.  If there's any objective evidence, period, for either.

[JaylaClark]

scmadsen wrote...

@ Jayla

Yes, I remember what you wanted to go over, and I think we should do that. We might not get any answers from it, but it might help people understand things better. At any rate, it would help us build a list of grievances to post to BioWare.

True enough.  I just wish I wasn't so tired from the eleven-times-normal pollen count in the area.  I'm not entirely sure where to start, though I was considering posting, or re-posting, canon Shepard's actual clear story, and Liara's including the comics.  Though as I said, york's summary of the last couple of pages seems almost misleading compared with the quotes I've seen and heard.

Of course the comics were never going to be much help to us, because, as I said, having Liara react like she's desperately in love with Shepard would make her seem like a weak character to Renegade Shelenko and ... er... Shashley?... players.  She's got to be presented as a devoted friend, who could well be hiding just how devoted and friendly she is.

[JaylaClark]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Fixed, I think I hit on most of your points, Jayla.

On this "Hmm, Garrus had one, Tali didn't..." Sorry, I meant former squadmate there.

Thanks for the edit!

You're welcome.  And I just noticed that I didn't make the best/most humorous squad dialogue subjective.  I'm not going to change that, though, because the sand line is pretty classic .  Plus given her Ilos dialogue being unique -- I actually have to slow the Mako down to get all the Liara/Garrus dialogue -- I don't think anyone here will argue the point.

[JaylaClark]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...


You're welcome.  And I just noticed that I didn't make the best/most humorous squad dialogue subjective.  I'm not going to change that, though, because the sand line is pretty classic .  Plus given her Ilos dialogue being unique -- I actually have to slow the Mako down to get all the Liara/Garrus dialogue -- I don't think anyone here will argue the point.

My first ever playthough, I actually accidentally cut Liara's dialogue off by steaming ahead full speed into the catacombs. I then reloaded the game to hear Liara speak.

Is that love, dedication, devotion or madness? You be the judge! ;-)

Oh, about three of those.

[jlb524]

If Liara comes to your room in ME3 and says:



'Look at this! Sneaking into the Captain's Quarters. Heavy risk.....but the priiiiiize!'



What would you do?

[jlb524]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

If Liara comes to your room in ME3 and says:

'Look at this! Sneaking into the Captain's Quarters. Heavy risk.....but the priiiiiize!'

What would you do?

Eat my hand.

No really, I would actually eat my hand. The sheer stupidity would be overwhelming!

My Shepard would giggle and then kiss Liara.  :kissing:

[JaylaClark]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

If Liara comes to your room in ME3 and says:

'Look at this! Sneaking into the Captain's Quarters. Heavy risk.....but the priiiiiize!'

What would you do?

Eat my hand.

No really, I would actually eat my hand. The sheer stupidity would be overwhelming!

Oh, if I weren't so hellbent on getting myself a new guitar, I'd have the same reaction ... though ... hmmm... I am picturing it, it works if femShepard and Liara wait a long beat and giggle hysterically.

[jlb524]

I wonder what happened to all of that SB data Feron downloaded and then gave to Liara in the last issue of Redemption? Did Liara give it to Cerberus or keep it herself? I can't see that this is made clear anywhere in the comic.

[Unata]

They need to fix Dr. Chakwas in me2, she sits funny and if at one point you use a certain dialog tree she's sitting in thin air, is weird.