50907 réponses à ce sujet

[WilliamShatner]

General Stubbs wrote...

How, after all of the discussion that has gone on, are we even back at the "Liara is evil" conversation again?
I can see people who don't know Liara very well saying she is evil, but I still can't believe that some of us Liara fans are still thinking this.
We don't know anything about the situation she is in, other than she is working against the SB.
I guarantee she wouldn't make a very good Information Broker if all she did was kill people and threaten everyone for no reason.
Most people who go to her for information would have no desire to screw her over, they just want what they came for, they pay, then leave, simple as that.

People threaten each other all of the time, not that it doesn't pain me to see The Beautiful Blue Goddess doing it, but I know it doesn't mean she will actually follow through on it.
You can't run a very good organization like that if all you do is kill people, you may have to threaten them, but you can't kill them all of the time.
Hell, you can't even run an organization very well on the fear of killing everyone.
For one thing, no one would come to you if they thought they you were going to kill them suddenly.

BioWare's actual intention for the reunion was not well executed for many reason, we have gone over them all. The comics where a major part in the problem. That problem right there is most likely why there is no, "I love you Liara"
One thing we have to look at is the lack of information in the Liara reunion, BioWare put all of that work into Liara's emotions, but they don't give us any information on the reunion.
It seems to me as though that was one of the reasons (besides the comic of course) was that EA probably wanted to make more money off of everyone through a major DLC/Expansion.
I have seen it happen before in other areas, they give you barely information so they can save it for later.

I have read that Kasumi says something about Liara, shouldn't that be good news? BioWare hasn't forgotten about our LiLi.
If they truly didn't care, they wouldn't have put in all of the subtle rewards for us Liara lovers (the extra 500 credits and such), it may have been a strange decision, but they didn't have to put them in the game. The fact that they did means they did more than was necessary (from their perspective anyway). People don't usually do more than necessary unless they are planning something.

She may not be "EVIL(!!!)" but as depicted in ME2 plotting revenge, threatening and killing people without remoarse she certainly isn't the type of character my Shepard would associate with.

Kasumi talks about you and Liara in the past tense.

And while BioWare may be planning something, it doesn't mean what they are planning is any good.  Afterall, after ME they were planning to do something to Liara in ME2.

[screwoffreg]

Anyway, interaction with the squad in general was lame in the second game, I think we can all agree.

Whether it was romance interests not reacting at all to Shepard playing the field so openly or your squadnot talking to each other (Garrus/Tali/Miranda seeing Liara and staring blankly) there needs to be some beefing up of the ole RPG elements here..

Modifié par screwoffreg, 16 avril 2010 - 04:22 .

[Dr.LiaraTsoni]

screwoffreg wrote...

Hey folks, it could be worse. It could be like the Star Wars reveal in that Liara turns out to be a lost sister and now you have to let her go lest you commit incest....

No

[AndroLeonidas]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I've seen this argument repeated ad nauseum, and my only thought is thus: Fukkem.

Thank you Les. I wanted to say that but I'm trying to keep my temper in check and not use coloful metaphors. You're more well liked... no one will bother you!:innocent:

[screwoffreg]

Dr.LiaraTsoni wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Hey folks, it could be worse. It could be like the Star Wars reveal in that Liara turns out to be a lost sister and now you have to let her go lest you commit incest....

No

Hey, what you don't know can't hurt you...

[jlb524]

General Stubbs wrote...

I have read that Kasumi says something about Liara, shouldn't that be good news? BioWare hasn't forgotten about our LiLi.
If they truly didn't care, they wouldn't have put in all of the subtle rewards for us Liara lovers (the extra 500 credits and such), it may have been a strange decision, but they didn't have to put them in the game. The fact that they did means they did more than was necessary (from their perspective anyway). People don't usually do more than necessary unless they are planning something.

The Kasumi thing is a good sign that they do seem to be willing to acknowledge an ME1 relationship.   The 500 credit thing is kind of ridiculous as most wont even notice it.  I didn't until someone here told me about it.  I was hoping for less sublte hints at romance.

BW just tried to do too much with Liara in a very very short amount of time and it failed.  Do they care?  Probably not, as Liara's not important to ME2.   I hope they do have great plans for her character, as she is my favorite, but in ME2, she was just there b/c they had to throw us a bone or something.  Her ME2 cameo was an after-thought compared to the rest of the game.  I just hope they have a good plan to rectify this in the future (DLC, ME3, whatever).

[screwoffreg]

This guy isn't going to let us down:



http://www.caseyhudson.com/



Look at those smoldering eyes. He yearns for Liara too...you all know he's an undercover fan.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
I've seen this argument repeated ad nauseum, and my only thought is thus: Fukkem. Seriously, you come into a trilogy at the second part and you misinterpret and misconstrue Liara and her actions. These viewpoints and the person holding them should be ridiculed appropriately. It's the player's responsibility to consume the full story, and to understand the characters properly. If we see something who thinks that Liara is this nutty revenge obsessed asari on Illium, then they can be laughed at, as they clearly haven't understood Liara's motives, her suffering, and her personality.

A viewpoint on Liara from any person who hasn't played ME1 is worth diddly-squat. I'd rather listen to those morons on Faux News with their "Luke Skywalker meets Debbie Does Dallas" rubbish.

While I agree on starting a trilogy with the second one being a bad idea,but thats how it is,ME2 was basicly hitting the reset button in many ways,starting with killing Shepard off so you could start at Level1 again.
And in the end the people that started with ME2 will matter maybe even more then the ones that played ME1.
That is were the problem lies,it could have been solved with a better exposition on Liaras situation,that would spare us a lot of arguments and misconceptions and maybe would have made some of the ME2 players care about her,but it didnt happen for whatever reason and thats hard to salvage you can attempt with DLC but theres the risk not everyone buys it

[screwoffreg]

Somebody1003 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

This guy isn't going to let us down:

http://www.caseyhudson.com/

Look at those smoldering eyes. He yearns for Liara too...you all know he's an undercover fan.

He is a good looking dude, Ill give him that.<3

Casey Hudson and Jade Raymond: Ultimate Canadian Gamer power couple???  Imagine Assassins Creed and Bioware games merging....

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

I think the Kasumi thing was probably an attempt to try and rectify the complete imbalance between the amount of people who gave a **** about the relationship between Ash/Kai and Liara.



People questioning about Ash/Kai at least gave the illusion it was about the romance you shared. Then you had Ash/Kai SPECIFICALLY pointed out how much you mean to them via email.



With Liara, all you get is one awkward kiss that I think should have been at the END of the conversation as a farewell. Other than that, everyone just treats her like one of your old acquaintances without any hint of a romance that might have occured, and then there is the "picture scene" which obviously is what both get.

[jlb524]

screwoffreg wrote...

Anyway, interaction with the squad in general was lame in the second game, I think we can all agree.

Whether it was romance interests not reacting at all to Shepard playing the field so openly or your squadnot talking to each other (Garrus/Tali/Miranda seeing Liara and staring blankly) there needs to be some beefing up of the ole RPG elements here..

Yeah, the confusion over Liara's portrayal in ME2 is one piece of evidence of the larger problem with ME2....lame squad interactions and lame character dialog in general.   Unfortunately, story and character elements were pushed to the side in favor of gameplay and 'shooter stuff'.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

screwoffreg wrote...

Look at those smoldering eyes. He yearns for Liara too...you all know he's an undercover fan.

He did say he liked Liara, but to be honest that look in his eyes..... I think he would rather crush all our heads like walnuts.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 16 avril 2010 - 04:30 .

[ratzerman]

screwoffreg wrote...

This guy isn't going to let us down:

http://www.caseyhudson.com/

Look at those smoldering eyes. He yearns for Liara too...you all know he's an undercover fan.

He even made an offhand remark in an interview a few months ago that she was his favorite character.

Not that it mattered.... her role in ME2 still sucked.

[WilliamShatner]

screwoffreg wrote...

This guy isn't going to let us down:

http://www.caseyhudson.com/

Look at those smoldering eyes. He yearns for Liara too...you all know he's an undercover fan.

Unfortunately for him, Liara isn't interested being asexual and all.

[Yeled]

I see from the past few pages that we are back to our pessimistic ways on this thread. Honestly I'm not sure that's a bad thing, though. No offense to forumites like Stubbs and Les, who I like very much and hope are right about everything, but I'm afraid we're expecting far too much of BioWare at this point in expecting them to do right by Liara's character. I've gotten to the point that I think we Liara fans, and maybe fans of BioWare's classic story driven games in general, should be hoping for the best while assuming the worst about anything BioWare does from here on out.

As far as I'm concerned, everything BioWare has done since ME2 came out--from dlc to Dragon Age's expansion--has been pretty much worthless. They are like a former star player who has batted .000 since the season began, and I'm wondering if their time in the big leagues is coming to an end. They clearly want to play in the Halo and Gears of War realm, and I guess from their pocket book's point of view they succeeded with ME2. But I'm not sure they can sustain it if they are going to sacrifice their heart and soul: The stories and roleplaying elements that they've done better than anyone for the better part of a decade.

How many brands go under because they move away from their core strengths? We've seen it time and again. Companies that sacrifice long-term quality for short-term gain inevitably damage their brand, alienate their core audience/consumer, and die a slow, inglorious death.

BioWare stands on the precipice. Maybe they've already gone over. I'm not sure yet. But either way they are dangerously close to falling. I didn't think, before ME2 came out, that this could happen. I held no company in higher regard. I thought they could do no wrong. They walked on water as far as I was concerned.

ME2 was the most disappointing game I've ever played. Its as simple as that. It certainly wasn't the worst game, but for all its qualities I feel it utterly failed because my expectations were so high. Its not just Liara, though I felt emotionally disconnected because of what they did with her and other ME1 connections. But for me it was the entire experience. And nothing BioWare has done since has changed that.

It would be nice if someone from BioWare would come into this thread and speak with us. I know its highly unlikely, but I really want to have some hope again and I think that's the only way that could happen at this point. I think we could all be civil, and I'd expect people to shout down those who weren't.

Anyway, yeah, I realize I'm now totally ranting. I'm just frustrated by what I see as the loss of the single best company in the videogame industry. I feel very strongly, as many of us do. To be honest, with the way the industry is headed, I might be inclined to abandon the industry altogether, and not just BioWare. If no one is going to make great, story-driven games...I'm not sure I have a lot of interest. Everything I played of late was just filler between BioWare games. It seems that's won't be true anymore.

Modifié par Yeled, 16 avril 2010 - 04:48 .

[Sunnie]

WilliamShatner wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

This guy isn't going to let us down:

http://www.caseyhudson.com/

Look at those smoldering eyes. He yearns for Liara too...you all know he's an undercover fan.

Unfortunately for him, Liara isn't interested being asexual and all.

Liara wouldn't be interested in him not because she is asexual, its because she is in love with Shepard (yes even if you didnt romance her in ME1, she is still in love with Shepard). And what does being asexual have to do with interest? Asari being asexual means they could have an interest in any gender (and also species in this case), to the point of frowning upon pureblood reproduction.

[Noxis6]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
As for ME2 players being more important than ME2 ones, I'm not seeing that at all. The decisions you start with whilst playing a non-import ME2 Shepard are awful, and could possibly have major ramifications for the hypothetical war against the Reapers. They clearly tried to encourage players to play ME1 and import.

Point still stands though. Any player who started the trilogy with ME2's opinion about Liara is worth very little.

Well I would argue that in case of non import Shepard the descision were made for the purpose of eliminating as many references to the old game as possible,as for there effect I guess thats unknown but I doubt it will be a major disadvantage to move on with an non import.

As for Liara well you might see it that way,but problem is thats not how it works,imo the made a very bad job if you look at what Liara generally invokes they just failed to make her apealing in a way like "I want this character in my squad in ME3",she invokes many things but not that in ME2 players

[Yeled]

Noxis6 wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
As for ME2 players being more important than ME2 ones, I'm not seeing that at all. The decisions you start with whilst playing a non-import ME2 Shepard are awful, and could possibly have major ramifications for the hypothetical war against the Reapers. They clearly tried to encourage players to play ME1 and import.

Point still stands though. Any player who started the trilogy with ME2's opinion about Liara is worth very little.

Well I would argue that in case of non import Shepard the descision were made for the purpose of eliminating as many references to the old game as possible,as for there effect I guess thats unknown but I doubt it will be a major disadvantage to move on with an non import.

As for Liara well you might see it that way,but problem is thats not how it works,imo the made a very bad job if you look at what Liara generally invokes they just failed to make her apealing in a way like "I want this character in my squad in ME3",she invokes many things but not that in ME2 players

To make matters worse they kind of gave Liara's romance role to Tali in ME2.  Her romance is very much like Liara's in that she's somewhat shy and awkward in going about it...which actually is somewhat out of character for her since I don't think she's shy and awkward about anything else.

[screwoffreg]

I wouldn't say Liara is so much a lesbian in that they probably see no barriers in terms of who they can love gender wise and also, they are all women. Its not unique to have species that are primarily female, at least not on Earth (ants, for example)



Now, for a human female to fall in love with Liara, you'd have to have lesbian tendencies, no question. Whatever Liara's concept of sexuality, you cannot be female and be attracted to an obvious female form and then not call that a homosexual relationship. Once again though, we are dancing around issues here...

[bjdbwea]

Yeled wrote...

ME2 was the most disappointing game I've ever played. Its as simple as that. It certainly wasn't the worst game, but for all its qualities I feel it utterly failed because my expectations were so high. Its not just Liara, though I felt emotionally disconnected because of what they did with her and other ME1 connections. But for me it was the entire experience. And nothing BioWare has done since has changed that.

Yeah... so far for me that was KotoR 2. But I recently replayed that (with the new fan-made patch), and it isn't as bad as I seemed to remember. The ending and the implementation of the so-called romances really is horrible though, much worse than ME 2. But only now do I recognize how much of an RPG KotoR 2 at least still was, and how little freedom ME 2 provides.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 16 avril 2010 - 04:56 .