50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Noxis6]

Driveninhifi wrote...
Also, one thing that still bothers me: why didn't the Shadow Broker kill Liara? He certainly attempts to have Fist killed in ME1, and what Liara did to him is much worse. Sure, Nyxeris is probably going to assassinate her, but why would the Shadow Broker wait? Liara is a dangerous enemy by herself (all of Shepard's crew are extremely dangerous, if you think about it) and if Shepard comes back, then the Shadow Broker has to deal with someone that's probably the most dangerous person in the galaxy. I can't imagine he'd take that risk - especially since he MUST know that Shepard and Liara are close friends, if not lovers. He's got to be attempting to kill her constantly and the game should have made that clear.
Also, why would he keep Feron alive for 2 years? There's no reason to interrogate him - he doesn't know anything (unless the SB thinks he has info on Cerberus - still, that doesn't take 2 years to figure out). Dude's got to be totally dead.

I wondered about this too,why didnt the Shadow Broker just kill her.I mean he must have been pretty pissed after Liara stole Shepards body and exspecially after turning it over to Cerberus,because this way it was out of his reach.
Liara ruined his chances for profit completely and he doesnt do anything about it in two years?
There are enough assasins and merc bands out there that kill everyone as long as you pay them enough and Liara might be a powerful biotic but shes not invincible.
Sure Nyxeris would have tried to kill her sooner or later but why not right away why all this effort to derail Liara,either he underestimates her or he just likes to toy with his enemies.
Besides Liara is propably not the first person in the galaxy that wants to kill him and going by as things are after the questline on Illium,the Shadow Broker must see that things are not going his way,his agent failed its now his turn to act take the offensive,try to lure Liara into a trap something like that.
Whether this happens in a DLC,an Expansion,ME3 or not at all is pretty much up to Bioware,but I dont expect him to go down easily.

[screwoffreg]

lol, if the comic reveal is Project Lazarus that would be very humorous.

[Driveninhifi]

JPfanner wrote...

Liara is a respected information broker on one planet and even that is only a cover for her focus on tracking down the Shadow Broker. The Shadow Broker has a galactic wide network with mercenary groups and star ships at his disposal. It's like comparing Nancy Drew to Interpol. Liara is just good at solving mysteries and following leads in pursuit of a goal.

Yeah, exactly.
I would think the most logical way for ME3 to start is with Shepard going to Liara and them deciding what to do next. This doesn't matter if she's the love interest or not: Shepard's got info that she'd be interested in (Collectors are Protheans, Geth aren't unified, Reapers are coming) and she likely has info or resources that would be very useful in figuring out what the next step is.
You could argue that Shepard should go to the Citadel, Alliance or Cerberus, but Liara is the only constant, guaranteed option. No matter how the story has branched, she's always there.

And once the Reapers start attacking, having her gathering information or brokering it on Ilium doesn't help Shepard (or the galaxy). It would be much more useful to have her on the ship where Shep can actually use her skillset.

[WilliamShatner]

screwoffreg wrote...

lol, if the comic reveal is Project Lazarus that would be very humorous.

Miranda is the cover of #4 so I suspect she and Cerberus will play a large part in it.

[JPfanner]

maikanix wrote...

I just pictured Nancy Drew investigating Interpol...

I love Nancy Drew, I always wanted to have adventures with Beth and Jo too : )  The comparison was meant from the perspective of the difference in scale and methodology between the two.  Although I'm sure Nancy Drew could find a few skeletons in the closet no matter where she looked.

[Driveninhifi]

Noxis6 wrote...
I wondered about this too,why didnt the Shadow Broker just kill her.I mean he must have been pretty pissed after Liara stole Shepards body and exspecially after turning it over to Cerberus,because this way it was out of his reach.
Liara ruined his chances for profit completely and he doesnt do anything about it in two years?
There are enough assasins and merc bands out there that kill everyone as long as you pay them enough and Liara might be a powerful biotic but shes not invincible.
Sure Nyxeris would have tried to kill her sooner or later but why not right away why all this effort to derail Liara,either he underestimates her or he just likes to toy with his enemies.
Besides Liara is propably not the first person in the galaxy that wants to kill him and going by as things are after the questline on Illium,the Shadow Broker must see that things are not going his way,his agent failed its now his turn to act take the offensive,try to lure Liara into a trap something like that.
Whether this happens in a DLC,an Expansion,ME3 or not at all is pretty much up to Bioware,but I dont expect him to go down easily.

Well, I assume he has been trying to kill her. I would have just liked the game to have made it very clear. Realistically, her life has to have been in danger every day. Having her actually TELL Shepard that would make her anger much more believable, as you are not likely to be in a very good mood if someone is constantly watching/trying to kill you. It's not very believable that the Shadow Broker would just attempt to kill her once and give up.
Although it doesn't explain why the Shadow Broker didn't have Nyxeris just kill her off. You could argue that maybe he was trying to figure out exactly what she knew/who her contacts are, but it seems like it would be in the Shadow Broker's best interest to just get rid of her. Maybe he was planning to and then discovered Shepard was still alive? Perhaps he didn't want to antagonize Shepard. If Shepard found out a) Liara stole the body from the Shadow Broker to bring him/her back to live and the Shadow Broker killed her for it, then Shepard's reaction IS likely to reap bloody vengeance. That's bad for business, so the Shadow Broker may want to avoid that.

[WilliamShatner]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...
I wondered about this too,why didnt the Shadow Broker just kill her.I mean he must have been pretty pissed after Liara stole Shepards body and exspecially after turning it over to Cerberus,because this way it was out of his reach.
Liara ruined his chances for profit completely and he doesnt do anything about it in two years?
There are enough assasins and merc bands out there that kill everyone as long as you pay them enough and Liara might be a powerful biotic but shes not invincible.
Sure Nyxeris would have tried to kill her sooner or later but why not right away why all this effort to derail Liara,either he underestimates her or he just likes to toy with his enemies.
Besides Liara is propably not the first person in the galaxy that wants to kill him and going by as things are after the questline on Illium,the Shadow Broker must see that things are not going his way,his agent failed its now his turn to act take the offensive,try to lure Liara into a trap something like that.
Whether this happens in a DLC,an Expansion,ME3 or not at all is pretty much up to Bioware,but I dont expect him to go down easily.

Well, I assume he has been trying to kill her. I would have just liked the game to have made it very clear. Realistically, her life has to have been in danger every day. Having her actually TELL Shepard that would make her anger much more believable, as you are not likely to be in a very good mood if someone is constantly watching/trying to kill you. It's not very believable that the Shadow Broker would just attempt to kill her once and give up.
Although it doesn't explain why the Shadow Broker didn't have Nyxeris just kill her off. You could argue that maybe he was trying to figure out exactly what she knew/who her contacts are, but it seems like it would be in the Shadow Broker's best interest to just get rid of her. Maybe he was planning to and then discovered Shepard was still alive? Perhaps he didn't want to antagonize Shepard. If Shepard found out a) Liara stole the body from the Shadow Broker to bring him/her back to live and the Shadow Broker killed her for it, then Shepard's reaction IS likely to reap bloody vengeance. That's bad for business, so the Shadow Broker may want to avoid that.

If Liara was in constant threat of her life then Shepard living her on her own is beyond monstrously stupid.

[Noxis6]

Driveninhifi wrote...
And once the Reapers start attacking, having her gathering information or brokering it on Ilium doesn't help Shepard (or the galaxy). It would be much more useful to have her on the ship where Shep can actually use her skillset.

I agree on that,you cant fight of the reaper invasion from behind a desk.
As I see it once the Reapers arrive they will hit the galaxy with full force and not acting in secrecy or planing their next attack in some place were informants could get word of it.
Harbinger and Sovereign had limited ressources they had to act more subtle but ME3 looks more like all out war,in this case gathering information is the job of the military,actually its pretty much in Shepards job description as an N7 operative.

[Corti78]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Well, I assume he has been trying to kill her. I would have just liked the game to have made it very clear. Realistically, her life has to have been in danger every day. Having her actually TELL Shepard that would make her anger much more believable, as you are not likely to be in a very good mood if someone is constantly watching/trying to kill you. It's not very believable that the Shadow Broker would just attempt to kill her once and give up.
Although it doesn't explain why the Shadow Broker didn't have Nyxeris just kill her off. You could argue that maybe he was trying to figure out exactly what she knew/who her contacts are, but it seems like it would be in the Shadow Broker's best interest to just get rid of her. Maybe he was planning to and then discovered Shepard was still alive? Perhaps he didn't want to antagonize Shepard. If Shepard found out a) Liara stole the body from the Shadow Broker to bring him/her back to live and the Shadow Broker killed her for it, then Shepard's reaction IS likely to reap bloody vengeance. That's bad for business, so the Shadow Broker may want to avoid that.

I can definitely agree to that. A remotely sane person would not want the now most powerful and dangerous individual in the galaxy after them. Other than taking Liara hostage or attempting to kill her outright, there is really nothing the SB has that can protect him from Shepard at this point.

Now that Shepard has access to the entire Geth network and a unshackled AI, I doubt the SB could hide from Shepard no matter how hard he tried.

Modifié par Corti78, 01 mars 2010 - 08:54 .

[Bann Duncan]

I'm getting really afraid that the worship from the Tali nutjobs is going to take resources away from Dr T'Soni. Tali (ditto for every other squadmate actually) is not nearly as plot-critical as Liara is to the overall ME trilogy story arc, but the billion page threads fill me with fear that that will randomly change.



I'm not even a Liaramancer, but it is clear that she's the most important NPC and I want to see how her story arc plays out.

[JPfanner]

You could argue that her whole "can't talk because of being recorded on Ilium" plays a part in that. Obviously she is choosing to be in a situation where she is under that kind of scrutiny, so it must be more to her benefit than detriment. Plus you could go with that concierge that meets you when you dock shows that she has people monitoring which ships come and go.

She probably has some kind of dead drop arranged as well and has made it clear to the Shadow Broker that if anything overt happens to her that all the information she has collected will be sent off to interested parties...like say Cerberus. So the Observer could have been trying to ascertain what it was that Liara knew while steering her off course during that.

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

lol, if the comic reveal is Project Lazarus that would be very humorous.

That would earn a big





Still I have to wonder what the "reveal" will be.  As pointed out revenge in and of itself doesn't fit Liara and doesn't explain the anger.  Whatever it is has to fairly big and very personal to Liara to evoke that kind of hate, otherwise it all just becomes a poorly contrived reunion scene in ME2, which I still think is a very big possibility.  I actually wouldn't be surprised if the big reveal is Project Lazarus.

[Driveninhifi]

WilliamShatner wrote...
If Liara was in constant threat of her life then Shepard living her on her own is beyond monstrously stupid.

Logically, she MUST be in constant danger. Although she's still alive and we know she can handle herself. She's a good fighter, after all.

What is really stupid is that she really has no chance of taking down the Shadow Broker by herself. 

Let's say she finds him. Ok, now what? She tells you outright she has no friends or anyone she can trust. Is she going to hire mercs to come with her to take down the Shadow Broker? How long do you think it will take before they shoot her in the back? She can't come close to the resources the Shadow Broker can marshall.
She absolutely NEEDS Shepard's help in this. She should ask, beg, plead, do whatever to get the player to help her. There's no way she'd be able to do it alone, and she should realize that. Shepard should realize it too, and bring it up in the conversation.

[Srslydude01]

Raanz wrote...

Grabbed a pic last night for the Liara folks (like myself)

You just can't beat that.
But ya, I think you all are right about the Shadow Broker taking a bit more subtle route in trying to deal with Liara. He can't really do anything to her because, as you all said, if Shepard was after him, he wouldn't really stand a chance. Also he maybe taking more of a route of manipulation, as you all said, because he can't just kill them. I believe that the Shadow Broker has grown arrogant from all this time that "he" has gone without his identity being compromised, which makes him think he could manipulate them somehow. It could play out many different ways.

[Noxis6]

That Shepard is an absolut requirement to kill the Shadow Broker is pretty much out of question,but revenge can be blinding at times.
Though she says she has some thugs on her paylist I doubt they will do her any good,the Shadow Broker might just buy them off.

On the comic if the big reveal should really be the Lazarus project I would be happy if they had more details on it in there than they have in the game.

Modifié par Noxis6, 01 mars 2010 - 09:07 .

[Driveninhifi]

Think about all the ridiculous stuff you do as Shepard during the first two games though. You are ridiculously powerful and influential. People constantly come up to you in ME2 with problems they've had for years, and you solve them in like 30 min. You solve ancient mysteries and destroy Reapers, in addition to entire races.



If anyone can take down the Shadow Broker, it's Shepard. If the Shadow Broker is remotely competent at his job he must realize that. He's working with the Collectors, who have super advanced technology, which still does not save them from getting completely exterminated by Shepard. Wouldn't that make you a bit nervous?

[WilliamShatner]

Driveninhifi wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...
If Liara was in constant threat of her life then Shepard living her on her own is beyond monstrously stupid.

Logically, she MUST be in constant danger. Although she's still alive and we know she can handle herself. She's a good fighter, after all.

What is really stupid is that she really has no chance of taking down the Shadow Broker by herself. 

Let's say she finds him. Ok, now what? She tells you outright she has no friends or anyone she can trust. Is she going to hire mercs to come with her to take down the Shadow Broker? How long do you think it will take before they shoot her in the back? She can't come close to the resources the Shadow Broker can marshall.
She absolutely NEEDS Shepard's help in this. She should ask, beg, plead, do whatever to get the player to help her. There's no way she'd be able to do it alone, and she should realize that. Shepard should realize it too, and bring it up in the conversation.

I agree,  which is why the writing is beyond stupid.

Shepard sees that Liara is under threat from Nyxeris and she just leaves Liara on her own with a blaze "Talk to you later, Liara.!  GRRRR.

[mrbeavis19]

General Stubbs wrote...

I have to wonder though.
The SB seems fearless and all-knowing. Why would he care if he had one person after him? Even someone as powerful as Shepard should be no match against the most powerful organization/person in the galaxy.
He comes across a major "mafia don" character that could snuff anyone out at anytime if
you ****** him off enough, Liara is trying to kill him, if you were the SB, why wouldn't you try to immediately take her out? Shepard isn't even there for two years.
I am not trying to say Liara should die (that woud be blasphemous), but I guess he has ulterior motives that won't be explained until DLC.
Anyone wonder where Joker got the schematics for Harbinger at the end of the game from? Joker = SB.

I would understand not being worries about some ordinary Joe Shmoe, but we're not talking about your average dude here. The SB may be the most powerful information broker in the universe, but we're talking about the man who has already killed two of an ancient race of machines bent on destroying all organic life, not to mention tearing both the geth and the collecters new ones. The SB has to be smart enough not to screw with a dude as badass as Shepard. 

[bjdbwea]

Whatever happens in the comics, don't forget that you support it by buying it. Not saying that you shouldn't, but in matters such as this, voting with the wallet is all that matters when all is said and done. As said before, I will not pre-order even BioWare games anymore. I would of course gladly buy them if, once the actual content is known, I endorse it. I would treat the comics the same, if I had interest in such a medium.

[Nozybidaj]

WilliamShatner wrote...

I agree,  which is why the writing is beyond stupid.

Shepard sees that Liara is under threat from Nyxeris and she just leaves Liara on her own with a blaze "Talk to you later, Liara.!  GRRRR.

Well, I think it has been pretty well established that the whole reunion scene, especially Shepard's part in it, makes absolutely no practical sense.  It is all just a poorly presented story point to make the new LI's more appealing.  They didn't even attempt any sort of explanation or progression of anything.  Trying to find reason or significance in it is like trying to get blood from a stone.

[Driveninhifi]

Seriously, Shepard walks in, kills everybody and then gets the loyalty of everyone near him/her. The character is the most dangerous being in the galaxy.



Oh, your entire squad of Quarian Marines died to these geth? I just killed them all pretty much by myself without a scratch, while saving you. By the way, I'm taking your lead scientist with me on a suicide mission and she's more than happy to go since she's fallen in love with me/thinks I'm the most awesome person in the universe. Tomorrow I'll head through a relay no one has ever returned from, eradicate an advanced race of slavers and blow up a reaper. No big deal.

[Nozybidaj]

bjdbwea wrote...

Whatever happens in the comics, don't forget that you support it by buying it. Not saying that you shouldn't, but in matters such as this, voting with the wallet is all that matters when all is said and done. As said before, I will not pre-order even BioWare games anymore. I would of course gladly buy them if, once the actual content is known, I endorse it. I would treat the comics the same, if I had interest in such a medium.

Agreed.  Haven't gotten any of the comics, haven't gotten Return to Ostagar, won't be getting Awakenings, nor any other BW product till they give us a satisfacotry continuation of Liara in ME2 via an expansion.

[JPfanner]

Cerberus doesn't tell Liara why they want the body in the first issue, TIM gives some lame answer like he doesn't expect her to understand human traditions. I think most people can agree that the comics should have ended in January, even people I've talked with who know nothing about Mass Effect find the offset on the comics ending and the game being released to be weird. With the cover of Redemption 4 and that quote I pasted in the earlier post it really struck me that might really be the big reveal. I definitely think within the context of the comics it will be a reveal, I guess the question is will it be the only reveal.