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[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Sorry but Shep does ask how she is doing and does try to remonstrate how Liara is seemingly going down the same path as her mother and warns her to be careful. So am not sure what game you are playing but it obviously isn't ME2

Also, not everyone bashes Liara due to how she behaves. Some of us actually understand it

Sorry, but what kind of comforting is that? Especially if Liara is your LI? She's just opened her heart to you about how she's suffered with the guilt, pain and loneliness for two years, after she's sacrificed so much for you, and all Shepard can talk about is the mission? Not one thing to comfort Liara on a personal level, or reaffirm their love?

Also, Shepard is showing concern for Liara by throwing what happened to Benezia in her face? That's awful. Liara was forced to watch her mother die in absolute agony, struggling against the effects of indoctrination, and Shepard throws all that back in her face? That's awful, and it's commendable that Liara didn't burst into tears there and then after Shepard said that to her. It's the equivalent of noticing that your girlfriend has lost weight, and saying to her that she looks as skinny as her mother did when she was on her death bed dying of cancer. How is that supposed to be comforting Liara, especially if she's your LI?

But please, do carry on Mr. ad hominem. That is your MO, after all. You'll probably won't read this anyway, seeing as how you block the people that you flame as you don't have the stones to read the rebuttal. But I digress.

Actually I do read this topic constantly, as much as it pains me to considering some of the unintelligent comments made by people.

Liara was forced to watch her mother die in absolute agony? Erm, no she wasn't. Not everyone who LIed her would have taken her on the mission, in fact if I remember rightly if you did recruit her beforehand, Shep does raise concerns about taking her on the mission, that ever crossed your mind? No because your too stuck in your own little fantasy to actually think outside your opinion. To some extent because their is a chance you know what the outcome is, it shows that you really don't care about her if you are going to try and take her on a mission where you might end up having to kill her mother.

But, I digress, for anyone that did the mission prior to getting Liara or don't take her with them, then whether they get all lovey dovey with her or not. If they care about her, to see her pretty much repeat the same line her mother did. That is pretty much a big concern for Shepard to see her potentially following the same path without indoctrination. Shep doesn't state his/her worries about what he/she is seeing but in a very concerned tone.

There is also the opening dialogue where Shep is asking about her, how she doing, what she been upto. So don't try to state that Shep shows no interest in Liara.

[Marcin K]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Kitten eyes Liara pic!!

new page-pic repost=]

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

But, I digress, for anyone that did the mission prior to getting Liara or don't take her with them, then whether they get all lovey dovey with her or not. If they care about her, to see her pretty much repeat the same line her mother did. That is pretty much a big concern for Shepard to see her potentially following the same path without indoctrination. Shep doesn't state his/her worries about what he/she is seeing but in a very concerned tone.

"That same path"? No surprise coming from you Ulrich, but thats absolute garbage. Liaras path isnt even anywhere near her mothers, regardless of the fact that she borrows a line from her. Its obvious for anyone with half a brain when you first enter the room and with her comments afterwards that Liara is trying to be intimidating, and put on a rough exterior. She flat out tells you she has a reputation of being someone formidable after helping take down Saren, and when someone is refusing to pay after recieving information, it helps to use a line likely to intimidate someone.

Bringing up the Benezia remark was completely pointless. Its only there to do exactly what Liara tells you, to give off the impression that Liara isnt someone to take lightly. Any Shepard who got concerned over that one comment and starts thinking "OMG, her mother said that while indoctrinated" is a ******.

No surprises you feel that way Ulrich.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

But, I digress, for anyone that did the mission prior to getting Liara or don't take her with them, then whether they get all lovey dovey with her or not. If they care about her, to see her pretty much repeat the same line her mother did. That is pretty much a big concern for Shepard to see her potentially following the same path without indoctrination. Shep doesn't state his/her worries about what he/she is seeing but in a very concerned tone.

"That same path"? No surprise coming from you Ulrich, but thats absolute garbage. Liaras path isnt even anywhere near her mothers, regardless of the fact that she borrows a line from her. Its obvious for anyone with half a brain when you first enter the room and with her comments afterwards that Liara is trying to be intimidating, and put on a rough exterior. She flat out tells you she has a reputation of being someone formidable after helping take down Saren, and when someone is refusing to pay after recieving information, it helps to use a line likely to intimidate someone.

Bringing up the Benezia remark was completely pointless. Its only there to do exactly what Liara tells you, to give off the impression that Liara isnt someone to take lightly. Any Shepard who got concerned over that one comment and starts thinking "OMG, her mother said that while indoctrinated" is a ******.

No surprises you feel that way Ulrich.

Well if you want to continue the hostility fine, I can say the same about you. No surprises that you can't truly read what I said.

When Shep makes that remark, he/she has no idea why she has said that. It can be brought up real early on in the conversation. If you notice I bolded the without not the indoctrinated. At that moment when Shep brings it up, it is highly possible for Shepard to think, I been gone 2 years and Liara has gone from sweet innocent Liara to serious business. Course, for a Shepard that left picking her up till last, that ain't exactly a big step and they can just ask her for the information they need and be on their way. But the point is, are you saying that if you truly cared about her you wouldn't be concerned when you first walk into the room that she says that?

Also to further point out your flawed comment that I bolded. Yes AFTER the conversation it is obvious what she is doing, but I was talking about BEFORE. The one thing I always find interesting about that scene is how sheepish Liara looks when she turns around after finishing communication with that client, in a sort of "Whoops, Shepard I didn't want you to see me act like that..." kind of manner.

To some extent she is fairly similar to Jack. Her mind has been completely messed up and now she is driven to rout out the one person/faction she believes is responsible for it.

I think some people need to take a step back from their complaining, wait for the DLC and then if that sucks, THEN have a go at Bioware.

In my opinion they've taken the right approach. The whole mess with the Shadow Broker would have detracted from the game for some people but due to the scale of the situation it does need its own slot.

I know a lot of you seem to think I dislike Liara (or maybe even think I hate her). I don't, my main paragon maleshep has her as his LI. My main paragon femshep considers her a good friend and will be looking to help Liara out with her mission post-omega trip and get her back on her team as will some of my other sheps, whilst I have a couple of sheps that would like to see as little as possible of her, that is because I like variety in my sheps, nothing more. What drives me nuts is the way some of you have reacted to how so far she has been handled when it was clear as day prior to ME2 that she wasn't going to have a prominent role in ME2.

[ratzerman]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
"How's your own work going?" Yes, really personal, deep, comforting and concerning. You can tell Shepard cares deeply about Liara, her wellbeing and how she's feeling. That's true love right there.

Or what about..... "I'll talk to you later, Liara."  You can really feel how deeply Shepard cares for her in that moment.  The love and compassion in Shepard's voice is so heartwarming, especially considering it is the last thing she says to Liara before LEAVING ON A SUICIDE MISSION! 

Yep, Shepard is about to embark on a mission that will probably result in her death, and it is very likely that she will never see Liara again, and the only thing she can say is "I'll talk to you later."

Thanks, Bioware.  Thanks a lot.

 

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

When Shep makes that remark, he/she has no idea why she has said that. It can be brought up real early on in the conversation. If you notice I bolded the without not the indoctrinated. At that moment when Shep brings it up, it is highly possible for Shepard to think, I been gone 2 years and Liara has gone from sweet innocent Liara to serious business. Course, for a Shepard that left picking her up till last, that ain't exactly a big step and they can just ask her for the information they need and be on their way. But the point is, are you saying that if you truly cared about her you wouldn't be concerned when you first walk into the room that she says that?

The whole Benezia remark cant actually be brought up early in the conversation, you can only question her "flay people alive" remark. She tells you she has a reputation an information broker needs, and cant let someone not pay her.

I always pick the "youre threatening to flay people alive remark" because at that point Shepard doesnt know why shes doing it. She answers. Thats fine. At this point there is no "my god, shes just like benezia only without the indoctrination".

Thats the basic point. Later in the conversation when discussing finding the observer from the list, THEN you can make a connection to benezia. Liara flat out says that her mother got things done, and right now thats what she needs to do.

This isnt about a Shepard being worried or questioning why Liara acts the way she does. Thats a perfectly obvious reaction. This is about the stupid connection of "Shes being like Benezia".

If you mean "trying to put on an air of authority and be intimidating", then yes, she is being like Benezia, as she flat out tells you. If you mean "Holy crap, shes taken the bad route and has turned evil, only without indoctrination" then no, thats an "unintelligent comment".

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 20 avril 2010 - 01:36 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Here we go again whit "LIARA IS A SITH LORD IN DISGUISE" crap...

For the last time SHE IS NOT EVIL... for the Keepers sake

Honestly this constant Liara hate convos starting to get really on my nerves but for sake of this thread i will restrain myself to reply in this same manners as haters posting.

We can only thanks to Mr Walters for apparent attempt of erasing our favorite character from the game.

[ratzerman]

Asheer_Khan wrote...
We can only thanks to Mr Walters for apparent attempt of erasing our favorite character from the game.

In the wild, male lions will kill cubs that were fathered by other males.

That's what Mac Walters is doing.  He's killing the characters he didn't create.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

There are two completely unnecessary comments a player can make in the Liara conversation.



The first is having a go at her for handing you over to cerberus. Shepard is clearly an idiot for getting angry at Liara for that, because as she says, the only other alternative was staying dead and being handed over to the collectors.



The second is the Benezia remark, as its just a completely useless reaction. Like Ive said, if you count Liara relying on imitating her mothers air of authority and ability to sound powerful and intimidating, then yes she is acting like Benezia.



Other than that, the similarities end.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

When Shep makes that remark, he/she has no idea why she has said that. It can be brought up real early on in the conversation. If you notice I bolded the without not the indoctrinated. At that moment when Shep brings it up, it is highly possible for Shepard to think, I been gone 2 years and Liara has gone from sweet innocent Liara to serious business. Course, for a Shepard that left picking her up till last, that ain't exactly a big step and they can just ask her for the information they need and be on their way. But the point is, are you saying that if you truly cared about her you wouldn't be concerned when you first walk into the room that she says that?

The whole Benezia remark cant actually be brought up early in the conversation, you can only question her "flay people alive" remark. She tells you she has a reputation an information broker needs, and cant let someone not pay her.

I always pick the "youre threatening to flay people alive remark" because at that point Shepard doesnt know why shes doing it. She answers. Thats fine. At this point there is no "my god, shes just like benezia only without the indoctrination".

Thats the basic point. Later in the conversation when discussing finding the observer from the list, THEN you can make a connection to benezia. Liara flat out says that her mother got things done, and right now thats what she needs to do.

This isnt about a Shepard being worried or questioning why Liara acts the way she does. Thats a perfectly obvious reaction. This is about the stupid connection of "Shes being like Benezia".

If you mean "trying to put on an air of authority and be intimidating", then yes, she is being like Benezia, as she flat out tells you. If you mean "Holy crap, shes taken the bad route and has turned evil, only without indoctrination" then no, thats an "unintelligent comment".

Yes hindsight is a great thing isn't it. THAT is my point.

I know this might be hard for you to comprehend but not every Shep is going to know the inner workings of an Information Broker. I know am re-itterating a point here but not every Shep will have taken her to confront her mother either as they didn't recruit her beforehand or just wasn't sure if it was wise or not. So for her to come out with that line, it isn't about her being 'evil' and bad. It is the fact she is as you stated trying to show how powerful she is. This is the sweet, innocent Liara we are talking about, or have you you been lying when you've been making such comments about her and really think she is a powerful beatch not to be messed with. Two years and all the stuff she has been through can truly mess with someones mind. Shep obviously doesn't know the moment he/she walks through the door what she has done. It takes some serious digging to find that information out and as you state it is obvious why it took so much to get it out of her. So yes when Shep does raise the "flay people alive" remark early on, that is understandable as Shep doesn't know much of what has gone on but has obviously seen a dramatic change in her since shep last saw her.

@Asheer, please try to get some common sense, if you actually took the time to read my posts you would realise I am not a Liara hater or believe she has truly gone 'evil/darkside'. I am merely trying to point out how some people are being way too pessimistic and overreacting to what happened in ME2

[Asheer_Khan]

On Illum you must be the Shark or you will be eaten by other sharks...

How can anyone believing that Lili was able to reach her position being nice for everyone around... sheeesh we talk about Terminus Systems where "Survival of the fittest" rule is one of the major rules so no wonder that if Lili wanted to achieve something there she simply need to show which daughter she is....



@Ratz.



Wisely spoken... but that's pretty bad sign for rest ME 1 characters.

They might get their 5 minutes glory in ME 2 but there is not a single guarantee of continuation in ME 3.



Side note.

I finished my short Liara's reunion trilogy (posted i my blog) but i am not sure if my "creativity" have at least small spark of sense .

[Asheer_Khan]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

When Shep makes that remark, he/she has no idea why she has said that. It can be brought up real early on in the conversation. If you notice I bolded the without not the indoctrinated. At that moment when Shep brings it up, it is highly possible for Shepard to think, I been gone 2 years and Liara has gone from sweet innocent Liara to serious business. Course, for a Shepard that left picking her up till last, that ain't exactly a big step and they can just ask her for the information they need and be on their way. But the point is, are you saying that if you truly cared about her you wouldn't be concerned when you first walk into the room that she says that?

The whole Benezia remark cant actually be brought up early in the conversation, you can only question her "flay people alive" remark. She tells you she has a reputation an information broker needs, and cant let someone not pay her.

I always pick the "youre threatening to flay people alive remark" because at that point Shepard doesnt know why shes doing it. She answers. Thats fine. At this point there is no "my god, shes just like benezia only without the indoctrination".

Thats the basic point. Later in the conversation when discussing finding the observer from the list, THEN you can make a connection to benezia. Liara flat out says that her mother got things done, and right now thats what she needs to do.

This isnt about a Shepard being worried or questioning why Liara acts the way she does. Thats a perfectly obvious reaction. This is about the stupid connection of "Shes being like Benezia".

If you mean "trying to put on an air of authority and be intimidating", then yes, she is being like Benezia, as she flat out tells you. If you mean "Holy crap, shes taken the bad route and has turned evil, only without indoctrination" then no, thats an "unintelligent comment".

Yes hindsight is a great thing isn't it. THAT is my point.

I know this might be hard for you to comprehend but not every Shep is going to know the inner workings of an Information Broker. I know am re-itterating a point here but not every Shep will have taken her to confront her mother either as they didn't recruit her beforehand or just wasn't sure if it was wise or not. So for her to come out with that line, it isn't about her being 'evil' and bad. It is the fact she is as you stated trying to show how powerful she is. This is the sweet, innocent Liara we are talking about, or have you you been lying when you've been making such comments about her and really think she is a powerful beatch not to be messed with. Two years and all the stuff she has been through can truly mess with someones mind. Shep obviously doesn't know the moment he/she walks through the door what she has done. It takes some serious digging to find that information out and as you state it is obvious why it took so much to get it out of her. So yes when Shep does raise the "flay people alive" remark early on, that is understandable as Shep doesn't know much of what has gone on but has obviously seen a dramatic change in her since shep last saw her.

@Asheer, please try to get some common sense, if you actually took the time to read my posts you would realise I am not a Liara hater or believe she has truly gone 'evil/darkside'. I am merely trying to point out how some people are being way too pessimistic and overreacting to what happened in ME2

I known and my post was more general venting of my frustration how many "evil Liara" threads lurking at this forum than any direct attack on you.
Actually i am more than open at civilized debate (aka restraing from both sides insults) about how Liara was handled in ME 2 but when all i get is "Oh my god... Liara is evil... i go after (insert ME 2 character name) now because Liara dump me) type then believe me, those people are able to made furious Buddist Monk in Nirvana state:O...

[vigna]

<_<

^^My take on the past 2 pages...^^

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Uh, hello? Can somebody help me? Please?

Can you hear me out there? I'm trapped, I need help!



Even whilst stuck in the Prothean bubble, Liara is absolutely adorable.

That is indeed true, actually that got me thinking, anyone know if there is actually anyway to get that scene and yet still LI her? Other than maybe holding on till ME3 for some slither of hope she can be LIed by ME3 newbies... or sheps that never did an LI in the first 2 games.

Part of me thinks it would be nice for Shep to fall for the crazy hallucinating asari.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Yes hindsight is a great thing isn't it. THAT is my point.

I know this might be hard for you to comprehend but not every Shep is going to know the inner workings of an Information Broker. I know am re-itterating a point here but not every Shep will have taken her to confront her mother either as they didn't recruit her beforehand or just wasn't sure if it was wise or not. So for her to come out with that line, it isn't about her being 'evil' and bad. It is the fact she is as you stated trying to show how powerful she is. This is the sweet, innocent Liara we are talking about, or have you you been lying when you've been making such comments about her and really think she is a powerful beatch not to be messed with. Two years and all the stuff she has been through can truly mess with someones mind. Shep obviously doesn't know the moment he/she walks through the door what she has done. It takes some serious digging to find that information out and as you state it is obvious why it took so much to get it out of her. So yes when Shep does raise the "flay people alive" remark early on, that is understandable as Shep doesn't know much of what has gone on but has obviously seen a dramatic change in her since shep last saw her.

And MY point is it doesnt require hindsight, it only requires paying close attention to each moment as it comes. It isnt a requirement to have come through the conversation with Liara to realise all this afterwards. Myself and many others picked up on this in our first playthrough.

Some players out there may have required hindsight to fully grasp that Liara isnt anywhere near the same path as Benezia, but as you are fond of pointing out, not everyone does things the same way in ME2.

And no by the way, I havent forgotten that this is Liara were talking about, I just think the writers did a terrible job giving any indication that there is anything of the old sweet Liara left.

I dont think shes an all power biatch either, I think shes someone in deep in a mission to kill the most powerful information broker in the galaxy, and needs to give the impression she is always razor sharp and not to be messed with.

The problem a lot of people have with the cameo is a problem many people have with other aspects of carryover in general: Biowares laziness. Some of us guessed this before release, but for all Biowares claims of impressive carryover of past decisions, the most in terms of carryover they did in ME2 is bury the major things, possibly to be picked back up in ME3. Some of the most substantial choices in ME1 carried into ME2 are brushed aside in less than 10 minutes.

Liara is one them, and when such a central character (even without romancing her) is brushed aside like that, it tends to be ill fitted. I dont know if you were aware of this, but its rumoured Liara, along with Legion, may have once occupied a much bigger role in the story - so much so as to be a central part of the opening of the game.

This was scrapped though, as it wasnt "noob friendly" enough. Bioware managed to avoid confusing new fans with the tradeoff being confused old fans being left with such a **** role overall for Liara trying to piece together pathetic scraps about her appearance.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 20 avril 2010 - 02:23 .

[Derumiel]

Hello my fellow Liara fans!

Haven't been home the last 5 days (and didn't have internet )
So: Any news about DLC? Or something else important i missed?

Ah i see some new signatures. I like the DLCsig. Think i'm gonna include it in my sig...
Also the animated one (by justin, right?) is quite nice!

[AndroLeonidas]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Yes hindsight is a great thing isn't it. THAT is my point.

I know this might be hard for you to comprehend but not every Shep is going to know the inner workings of an Information Broker. I know am re-itterating a point here but not every Shep will have taken her to confront her mother either as they didn't recruit her beforehand or just wasn't sure if it was wise or not. So for her to come out with that line, it isn't about her being 'evil' and bad. It is the fact she is as you stated trying to show how powerful she is. This is the sweet, innocent Liara we are talking about, or have you you been lying when you've been making such comments about her and really think she is a powerful beatch not to be messed with. Two years and all the stuff she has been through can truly mess with someones mind. Shep obviously doesn't know the moment he/she walks through the door what she has done. It takes some serious digging to find that information out and as you state it is obvious why it took so much to get it out of her. So yes when Shep does raise the "flay people alive" remark early on, that is understandable as Shep doesn't know much of what has gone on but has obviously seen a dramatic change in her since shep last saw her.

@Asheer, please try to get some common sense, if you actually took the time to read my posts you would realise I am not a Liara hater or believe she has truly gone 'evil/darkside'. I am merely trying to point out how some people are being way too pessimistic and overreacting to what happened in ME2

Ok... my first comment to all of this is simple. Do you know how to have an intelligent conversation without tearing down what other people think and attacking them as being stupid or not as smart as you? Why is your view the only correct view. That is narrowminded and walking around with blinders in your case.

Les has his opinion... you have yours... the vast majority of us who had Liara as a LI in ME1 agree with Les not with you. From what I've seen in this convo and the few others in this thread that you have attempted to take part in, anyone who is not of your mind is stupid, doesn't think outside the box, yada yada yada. That would be considered trolling... which you seem to do very well.

The people in this thread have several different views on Liara... but overall we all agree her character had a hack job done on it in a very big way. There was no continuity from the first game and nothing made sense. It has been a little over two years for Liara yes... and she went through hell to get where she is... but it has only been a few days since Shepard saw her last. There should have been dialogue options to take into account whther you romanced her or not. That was the point of bringing the save games over from ME1. That information is what we were led to believe woul carry over... that is not what we got!!! Any of the old LIs for that matter. Shepard shows no emotion at all in regards to Liara aside from the opening kiss if they were LIs. Zip. Nada. Nothing. A big frakking log is what he was. Hence... no continuity!

May I suggest as I did before... if you wish to extoll your venom towards other people and how they view the game as it is... start your own thread and do so. Coming into this thread time and time again and attacking people personally is becoming boorish of you to be honest. Do you do the same thing in the other character threads as well? Jeez!

Maybe I'll just report your posts as abuse... many of them certainly qualifiy.

[bjdbwea]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

I think some people need to take a step back from their complaining, wait for the DLC and then if that sucks, THEN have a go at Bioware.

Why? It's nice of you to defend BioWare, even though I don't see what you'd gain. But that's not the point. Thing is, once I read about all the changes in ME 2 before release, I was very wary about it. But I did give BioWare the benefit of doubt, and even pre-ordered the game. Well, they did disappoint me a lot with this game. Why should I now wait for a DLC of which we don't even know if it exists, before complaining? No matter how you try to spin it, the scene on Illium is botched, by bad writing, by forcing changes in a character that simply weren't necessary, by not explaining them, but above all and even if you accept everything else, by withholding totally obvious dialogue choices. A DLC would have to include a patch for that scene, which will not happen anyway. So the main game will stay in its bad state.

So we'll continue to complain, just like I hope threads will continue to appear that tell BioWare about the bad job they did with this game. I have little doubt that it won't impress anyone at BioWare/EA, but it's all we can do.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 20 avril 2010 - 02:32 .