50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Zhijn]

My question was overlooked in another topic, so i figure the best bet is to ask here about Liara. xD

I havnt played my Shepard+Liara import yet and i then notice this "gif":



When Liara and Shepard meet in ME2 they seem to have this awkward kiss, and then it looks like she pulls a "its been 2yrs im over you" kind of moment?.

Whats the story there?.

Modifié par Zhijn, 01 mars 2010 - 10:23 .

[Noxis6]

screwoffreg wrote...
Maybe that is the price for Shepard.  Liara gets to live, but must end her information business, and Shepard gets some help on the Reaper threat, maybe valuable information on Dark Energy (remember Gianna Parisini mentions dark energy research is big on Illium) and how it might be used.  In turn, the Shadow Broker gets to walk away in a tacit alliance with Shepard. 

I can see this being a sort of loyalty mission.  Can you convince Liara to give up her quest to kill the Broker for the higher mission, destroying the Reapers?

I thought of something similar awhile ago,maybe with the choice on the Cerberus data factoring into it,he owes you a favor if you give it to him.
As for him helping against the reapers I think he would do that anyway be it only to save his on hide,galactic genocide isnt really that good for buisiness.

[AndroLeonidas]

JPfanner wrote...

AndroLeonidas wrote...
Actually... she states right in the game that Cerberus told her they could bring him back to life. They just didn't clarify as to why.

I was talking about the sequence of events revealed in the comic series.  In Redemption 1 when Liara is talking to TIM he tells her that the Shadow Broker is selling Shepard's body to the Collectors.  When she wants to know why Cerberus is so interested in Shepard's body he tells her that he doesn't expect an asari to understand human traditions and that regardless they would want to deny the Collector's the body.
So as of yet in the comics Liara doesn't know Cerberus believes they can bring Shepard back, she's going after the body out of respect for Shepard and to save the body from whatever the Collectors plan to do with it.
If I had to guess, I would assume that Liara is planning to NOT turn the body over to Cerberus, and it isn't until they reveal that they believe they can bring Shepard back that she makes the decision to turn the body over to them for the chance to have Shepard back.

Ahhh... I follow you now.

[AndroLeonidas]

Zhijn wrote...

My question was overlooked in another topic, so i figure the best bet is to ask here about Liara. xD

I havnt played my Shepard+Liara import yet and i then notice this "gif":



When Liara and Shepard meet in ME2 they seem to have this awkward kiss, and then it looks like she pulls a "its been 2yrs im over you" kind of moment?.

Whats the story there?.

Something we have been trying to figure out since 1/26/10.

[screwoffreg]

Noxis6 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...
Maybe that is the price for Shepard.  Liara gets to live, but must end her information business, and Shepard gets some help on the Reaper threat, maybe valuable information on Dark Energy (remember Gianna Parisini mentions dark energy research is big on Illium) and how it might be used.  In turn, the Shadow Broker gets to walk away in a tacit alliance with Shepard. 

I can see this being a sort of loyalty mission.  Can you convince Liara to give up her quest to kill the Broker for the higher mission, destroying the Reapers?

I thought of something similar awhile ago,maybe with the choice on the Cerberus data factoring into it,he owes you a favor if you give it to him.
As for him helping against the reapers I think he would do that anyway be it only to save his on hide,galactic genocide isnt really that good for buisiness.

Considering your ME 1 save tracks if you gave the Broker the data, that would be a real dead end for him to owe you a favor and never get the chance to use it.  I think it is very likely the Shadow Broker will "come around".

[Corti78]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

Zhijn wrote...

My question was overlooked in another topic, so i figure the best bet is to ask here about Liara. xD

I havnt played my Shepard+Liara import yet and i then notice this "gif":



When Liara and Shepard meet in ME2 they seem to have this awkward kiss, and then it looks like she pulls a "its been 2yrs im over you" kind of moment?.

Whats the story there?.

Something we have been trying to figure out since 1/26/10.

Basically. We know nothing about where the relationship is or heading. From a character and realisitc stand point the entire reunion with Lara makes no sense with what information we currently have. Which is why we are hoping for the comics and possible DLC to fill in the many many blanks.

Modifié par Corti78, 01 mars 2010 - 10:26 .

[Driveninhifi]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

I'm a writer as well, two published books, three SW fan fics and four original sci-fi/fantasy novels to my credit. I think like this sometimes. lol! How does it all tie in? At this point without a major epiphany from the last two issues of the comics... someone dropped the ball in a major way. And yes... while I have romanced Miranda and I very much like her character... Liara is and always will be my favorite.

Oh, I most definitely agree. The information we have been given thus far is not satisfactory. I firmly believe that if you are taking a known, well defined character and are going to change them drastically you sure as hell better make the development believable. They have yet to show the character development that explains her obsession, and I don't feel the reasons given in game are realistic given the way her character is portrayed and developed in Mass Effect 1.

It feels forced, which is the last thing you want as a writer. They could have fixed this by adding more depth to the conversation, but either ran out of time or chose not to do so. Hard to speculate on what actually happened, so it's not quite fair to judge them. But as it stands now, Liara is easily the low point in the game's writing.

[screwoffreg]

Bear in mind indications are they changed Liara's role considerably in ME 2 development. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems you would do the Shadow Broker quest as one of your earlier missions and Legion would play a big role in that. The change seemed sudden, and that may explain the "lacking" storyline.



The big surprise in the comics may be nothing more than the absolutely SHOCKING decision that Liara gives the body to Cerebrus out of the hopes to save Shepard or that she has to do very BAD things to survive. Wow.

[AndroLeonidas]

I just saw something in the comic #3 preview. Feron says the SB has only one base on Alington. You can scan that planet for resources in game!!! Why did we not pick anything up????

[Corti78]

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind indications are they changed Liara's role considerably in ME 2 development. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems you would do the Shadow Broker quest as one of your earlier missions and Legion would play a big role in that. The change seemed sudden, and that may explain the "lacking" storyline.

The big surprise in the comics may be nothing more than the absolutely SHOCKING decision that Liara gives the body to Cerebrus out of the hopes to save Shepard or that she has to do very BAD things to survive. Wow.

I think that pisses me off more than anything. Its bad enough what they did to Liara but they even went so far as to screw over Legion's character development. All for the sake of "it may be too confusing for new players"...

[screwoffreg]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

I just saw something in the comic #3 preview. Feron says the SB has only one base on Alington. You can scan that planet for resources in game!!! Why did we not pick anything up????

ME 2 DLC and ME 3 will use the planets that are currently revealed.  it is obvious from SOME planet scans that there is more than meets the eye to certain worlds.  I am sure DLC and ME 3 will have us use a lot of the seemingly ordinary planets.  There are probably hints all around.

[Corti78]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

I just saw something in the comic #3 preview. Feron says the SB has only one base on Alington. You can scan that planet for resources in game!!! Why did we not pick anything up????

Its not a base per say. If the Legion/Liara stuff is true then its a ship called the Shadowthrone. Its likely to have moved in the time between Liara recovering Shepard and now if they haven't changed it. It was maybe originally stationed on Alington but after being discovered by Liara the first time, it would be stupid for the SB not to have moved.

Modifié par Corti78, 01 mars 2010 - 10:34 .

[AndroLeonidas]

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind indications are they changed Liara's role considerably in ME 2 development. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems you would do the Shadow Broker quest as one of your earlier missions and Legion would play a big role in that. The change seemed sudden, and that may explain the "lacking" storyline.

The big surprise in the comics may be nothing more than the absolutely SHOCKING decision that Liara gives the body to Cerebrus out of the hopes to save Shepard or that she has to do very BAD things to survive. Wow.

Well... if they changed her development because of the Miranda character and Yvonne doing the voicing and such I will be very upset. I love Yvonne... but you don't destroy an established character in such a way just to introduce another that is suppose to "tempt" you away from your LI.

I agree about the surprise in the comics though. But that would still not account for her behavior ingame. The hate and dismissal of Shepard as it is protrayed.

[screwoffreg]

Corti78 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind indications are they changed Liara's role considerably in ME 2 development. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems you would do the Shadow Broker quest as one of your earlier missions and Legion would play a big role in that. The change seemed sudden, and that may explain the "lacking" storyline.

The big surprise in the comics may be nothing more than the absolutely SHOCKING decision that Liara gives the body to Cerebrus out of the hopes to save Shepard or that she has to do very BAD things to survive. Wow.

I think that pisses me off more than anything. Its bad enough what they did to Liara but they even went so far as to screw over Legion's character development. All for the sake of "it may be too confusing for new players"...

Yeah, my feeling is they are making up a lot of the story for Liara as they go along now, trying to fit it into their vision for ME 2 DLC and beyond.  The introduction of the comics is probably one way to bridge the gap from ME 1 to ME 2 for the uninformed, but for their fanbase like us, we probably won't be very surprised.  I think we have exhaustively discussed most every possible route Bioware could take without being absurd.

Feron affair, Shadow Broker is a reaper/reaper agent, Shadowbroker is using Liara secretly, etc etc.

[Driveninhifi]

Zhijn wrote...

My question was overlooked in another topic, so i figure the best bet is to ask here about Liara. xD

I havnt played my Shepard+Liara import yet and i then notice this "gif":



When Liara and Shepard meet in ME2 they seem to have this awkward kiss, and then it looks like she pulls a "its been 2yrs im over you" kind of moment?.

Whats the story there?.

Well, I don't really think it's an "I'm over you" moment. She initiates the kiss, after all. If you are female, she clearly whispers something that ends in "I love you" but doesn't for males for some reason.
It wasn't handled very well for sure.
I took it to mean she's afraid of being watched, and also afraid of Shepard's reaction once he/she discovers she gave the body to Cerberus. I think it would be hard to argue she's gotten over Shepard - she's terrified he/she will hate her, which wouldn't be the case if she didn't care.
It makes the most sense for her to be obsessively hoping for and dreading this moment. I think she needed a much bigger reaction to whether or not Shepard affirms/denies her handing over the body. That's gotta be a big moment for her, since she went through so much to bring him/her back.

Realistically, it's just the writers being obtuse - which is unfortunate because it comes across as more "Wait, what are they going for?" than actually mysterious and dramatic.

[JPfanner]

Zhijn wrote...

My question was overlooked in another topic, so i figure the best bet is to ask here about Liara. xD

I havnt played my Shepard+Liara import yet and i then notice this "gif":
When Liara and Shepard meet in ME2 they seem to have this awkward kiss, and then it looks like she pulls a "its been 2yrs im over you" kind of moment?.

Whats the story there?.

My take on it is that she's been keeping herself busy for two years hunting down the Shadow Broker all the time worrying if Shepard is going to stay dead, come back brainwashed, or resent her for giving the body to Cerberus.  She already knows what Shepard is doing and that she won't be coming with Shepard.
So I take the kiss as her showing you what her hopes are.  But then she reins herself in because of the realities of the situation.  Each of you has a job to do and both of you need to be focused on that for the time being.  It just blows you can't express your own feelings and Shepard sits there like a barnacle.

[screwoffreg]

She really says "I love you" to a female? I never noticed that, if true..

[AndroLeonidas]

Well, I don't really think it's an "I'm over you" moment. She initiates the kiss, after all. If you are female, she clearly whispers something that ends in "I love you" but doesn't for males for some reason.

Dang!!! You got a youtube vid of this? I never played a fem/shepard and that would be something at least!!!

[Noxis6]

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind indications are they changed Liara's role considerably in ME 2 development. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems you would do the Shadow Broker quest as one of your earlier missions and Legion would play a big role in that. The change seemed sudden, and that may explain the "lacking" storyline.

The big surprise in the comics may be nothing more than the absolutely SHOCKING decision that Liara gives the body to Cerebrus out of the hopes to save Shepard or that she has to do very BAD things to survive. Wow.

I think the Legion/Liara thing never left design documents for the most part,but Legion seems to have been more srewed over with that.
As for the cut Liara dialogue,the whole thing would have made the whole scene even weaker at least imo.
Its basicly TIM giving Shepard the coordinates to the Shadow Brokers base and you give it to Liara,why,I have no idea you go there and kill him,robbing Liara of the only at least slightly acceptable reason not to join you.

[JPfanner]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

I just saw something in the comic #3 preview. Feron says the SB has only one base on Alington. You can scan that planet for resources in game!!! Why did we not pick anything up????

Plus, don't forget this is two years ago.  And Liara probably blows it up hero style recovering your body.  At the least it would be considered compromised.

[screwoffreg]

Noxis6 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind indications are they changed Liara's role considerably in ME 2 development. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems you would do the Shadow Broker quest as one of your earlier missions and Legion would play a big role in that. The change seemed sudden, and that may explain the "lacking" storyline.

The big surprise in the comics may be nothing more than the absolutely SHOCKING decision that Liara gives the body to Cerebrus out of the hopes to save Shepard or that she has to do very BAD things to survive. Wow.

I think the Legion/Liara thing never left design documents for the most part,but Legion seems to have been more srewed over with that.
As for the cut Liara dialogue,the whole thing would have made the whole scene even weaker at least imo.
Its basicly TIM giving Shepard the coordinates to the Shadow Brokers base and you give it to Liara,why,I have no idea you go there and kill him,robbing Liara of the only at least slightly acceptable reason not to join you.

Legion has dialogue recorded as early as Omega and there are bits and pieces of stray Liara dialogue as well in game.

[Corti78]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Zhijn wrote...

My question was overlooked in another topic, so i figure the best bet is to ask here about Liara. xD

I havnt played my Shepard+Liara import yet and i then notice this "gif":



When Liara and Shepard meet in ME2 they seem to have this awkward kiss, and then it looks like she pulls a "its been 2yrs im over you" kind of moment?.

Whats the story there?.

Well, I don't really think it's an "I'm over you" moment. She initiates the kiss, after all. If you are female, she clearly whispers something that ends in "I love you" but doesn't for males for some reason.
It wasn't handled very well for sure.
I took it to mean she's afraid of being watched, and also afraid of Shepard's reaction once he/she discovers she gave the body to Cerberus. I think it would be hard to argue she's gotten over Shepard - she's terrified he/she will hate her, which wouldn't be the case if she didn't care.
It makes the most sense for her to be obsessively hoping for and dreading this moment. I think she needed a much bigger reaction to whether or not Shepard affirms/denies her handing over the body. That's gotta be a big moment for her, since she went through so much to bring him/her back.

Realistically, it's just the writers being obtuse - which is unfortunate because it comes across as more "Wait, what are they going for?" than actually mysterious and dramatic.

Oh wow you're right. I only play as femshep and noticed the whisper before the kiss. I never knew she didn't do the same for maleshep, and after looking at a youtube vid she definitely doesn't say anything to him. That's kind of weird...

[Noxis6]

screwoffreg wrote...
Legion has dialogue recorded as early as Omega and there are bits and pieces of stray Liara dialogue as well in game.

Yes I know,but as I said the Legion/Liara arc seems to have been never fully realized in playable form,though I think it was said they used some parts of the ship for an N7 mission.

[mrbeavis19]

Driveninhifi wrote...

Zhijn wrote...

My question was overlooked in another topic, so i figure the best bet is to ask here about Liara. xD

I havnt played my Shepard+Liara import yet and i then notice this "gif":



When Liara and Shepard meet in ME2 they seem to have this awkward kiss, and then it looks like she pulls a "its been 2yrs im over you" kind of moment?.

Whats the story there?.

Well, I don't really think it's an "I'm over you" moment. She initiates the kiss, after all. If you are female, she clearly whispers something that ends in "I love you" but doesn't for males for some reason.
It wasn't handled very well for sure.
I took it to mean she's afraid of being watched, and also afraid of Shepard's reaction once he/she discovers she gave the body to Cerberus. I think it would be hard to argue she's gotten over Shepard - she's terrified he/she will hate her, which wouldn't be the case if she didn't care.
It makes the most sense for her to be obsessively hoping for and dreading this moment. I think she needed a much bigger reaction to whether or not Shepard affirms/denies her handing over the body. That's gotta be a big moment for her, since she went through so much to bring him/her back.

Realistically, it's just the writers being obtuse - which is unfortunate because it comes across as more "Wait, what are they going for?" than actually mysterious and dramatic.

I really think they just held a lot of dialog back during her scenes to keep from "spoiling" the comics. Which I think is completely retarded on their part. Why screw up a scene in the game that the comics are based on for the sake of the comics? It makes no sense. I think the writers and directors at BW just completely dropped the ball and mis-prioritized everything to do with Liara.<_<

[Corti78]

Noxis6 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...
Legion has dialogue recorded as early as Omega and there are bits and pieces of stray Liara dialogue as well in game.

Yes I know,but as I said the Legion/Liara arc seems to have been never fully realized in playable form,though I think it was said they used some parts of the ship for an N7 mission.

Nah that was from ME1. They originally planned to have the Liara recruitment span multiple quests and locations but due to time constraints and resources cut it down to just Therum. The unused ship location was eventually used for BDtS.