50907 réponses à ce sujet

[screwoffreg]

Corti78 wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...
Legion has dialogue recorded as early as Omega and there are bits and pieces of stray Liara dialogue as well in game.

Yes I know,but as I said the Legion/Liara arc seems to have been never fully realized in playable form,though I think it was said they used some parts of the ship for an N7 mission.

Nah that was from ME1. They originally planned to have the Liara recruitment span multiple quests and locations but due to time constraints and resources cut it down to just Therum. The unused ship location was eventually used for BDtS.

He is talking about saving the crashing freighter.  If the rumor is to be believed, that freighter was originally the Shadowthrone, the Brokers ship, and Legion's deactivated form was aboard. 

[Noxis6]

I think it was a similar thing with the Legion/Liara arc.

From what I remember from ME1,wasnt Liaras recruitment mission supposed to be on a totally different planet alltogether,Caleston or something?

[JPfanner]

Corti78 wrote...

Oh wow you're right. I only play as femshep and noticed the whisper before the kiss. I never knew she didn't do the same for maleshep, and after looking at a youtube vid she definitely doesn't say anything to him. That's kind of weird...

Same here.  I knew she whispered something, and I've reloaded several times to try and figure out what.  I didn't know that she didn't do that for the Malesheps though.  Even subtitles don't mention the whisper, annoyingly.

[screwoffreg]

I guess Liara favors women then. So much for no f/f romances Bioware!!!

[WilliamShatner]

Noxis6 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind indications are they changed Liara's role considerably in ME 2 development. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems you would do the Shadow Broker quest as one of your earlier missions and Legion would play a big role in that. The change seemed sudden, and that may explain the "lacking" storyline.

The big surprise in the comics may be nothing more than the absolutely SHOCKING decision that Liara gives the body to Cerebrus out of the hopes to save Shepard or that she has to do very BAD things to survive. Wow.

I think the Legion/Liara thing never left design documents for the most part,but Legion seems to have been more srewed over with that.
As for the cut Liara dialogue,the whole thing would have made the whole scene even weaker at least imo.
Its basicly TIM giving Shepard the coordinates to the Shadow Brokers base and you give it to Liara,why,I have no idea you go there and kill him,robbing Liara of the only at least slightly acceptable reason not to join you.

Unfortunetly that's what I expect the Liara DLC will be.  She's quest giver you'll have to run more errands for.

[Corti78]

screwoffreg wrote...

He is talking about saving the crashing freighter.  If the rumor is to be believed, that freighter was originally the Shadowthrone, the Brokers ship, and Legion's deactivated form was aboard. 

Ah okay. I completely forgot about the crashing freighter. Then again none of the N7 missions were all that memorable.

[screwoffreg]

I do hope that we get more time with Legion. I think it was mentioned he might not be a squad member in ME 3, and by the time you get him in ME 2, you basically only use him for two-three missions at most.

[Driveninhifi]

Yeah, i didn't know about it until jib mentioned it to me (I'm male shep). It looks like it ends with "I love you" but I can't tell what else is there. Very sloppy to have it only occur for females and not males though.



They definitely changed a lot of stuff with her during development though. Hunting the Observer was supposed to be cleaning up after you kill the Shadow Broker, and she says she can't come because she needs to look through the data to see if it can help you. Which is totally ridiculous, since you really don't need any of that information to kill the Collectors, and she can easily go through it on the Normandy itself.

Then there's the rumor about Legion which would have been awesome. He does have a ton of dialogue throughout the game - so it probably did get further off the ground than just a design doc. Tali also has a bunch of dialogue for missions before you get her, which makes me think she was probably supposed to join at the beginning of the game at one point.

[AndroLeonidas]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind indications are they changed Liara's role considerably in ME 2 development. As someone pointed out earlier, it seems you would do the Shadow Broker quest as one of your earlier missions and Legion would play a big role in that. The change seemed sudden, and that may explain the "lacking" storyline.

The big surprise in the comics may be nothing more than the absolutely SHOCKING decision that Liara gives the body to Cerebrus out of the hopes to save Shepard or that she has to do very BAD things to survive. Wow.

I think the Legion/Liara thing never left design documents for the most part,but Legion seems to have been more srewed over with that.
As for the cut Liara dialogue,the whole thing would have made the whole scene even weaker at least imo.
Its basicly TIM giving Shepard the coordinates to the Shadow Brokers base and you give it to Liara,why,I have no idea you go there and kill him,robbing Liara of the only at least slightly acceptable reason not to join you.

Unfortunetly that's what I expect the Liara DLC will be.  She's quest giver you'll have to run more errands for.

If ultimately it gets me back with Liara I'll do 40 quests!! lol! I just want this whole boondoggle to be fixed and have her go into ME3 on your squad already as your LI. Bioware needs to do this to have any continuity in this game. If the DLC is just running around for her and no closure I most definitely will not purchase ME3

[screwoffreg]

Tali was actually supposed to join you at the beginning, Freedom's Progress, if the supposed "developer" who posted way back when is telling the truth. Legion was also very early in the game.



If the Broker is not dead, then perhaps they have other plans for him. Either way, it looks like there was a MAJOR story rewrite.

[AndroLeonidas]

screwoffreg wrote...

Tali was actually supposed to join you at the beginning, Freedom's Progress, if the supposed "developer" who posted way back when is telling the truth. Legion was also very early in the game.

If the Broker is not dead, then perhaps they have other plans for him. Either way, it looks like there was a MAJOR story rewrite.

Probably because they were pressing to get it released. Same thing that company who made KOTOR 2 did. The second game nuked the whole series and no third has been made.

I truly hope Bioware didn't do it to themselves. Without a three disc game or several DLCs there is no way to clean up the mess they have created.

[Noxis6]

Well I think voice recording is done pretty early on in a development cycle so its not that suprising to find such lines.
As for the whole "I have to read"thing I just hope they dont decide to reimplement this with a DLC that reason for not joining is as lame as lame can get,well maybe having her say just "No" would be worse.
Plus on the Normandy theres EDI I just bet the AI is a thousand times faster then Liara could ever be.

Modifié par Noxis6, 01 mars 2010 - 11:01 .

[screwoffreg]

Well, the new story gives them some options. They can use the Shadow Broker more indepth and I guess if you can make Liara more complex. I see it as an opportunity, but if they hurry again they certainlycan really blow it.

[Corti78]

screwoffreg wrote...

I do hope that we get more time with Legion. I think it was mentioned he might not be a squad member in ME 3, and by the time you get him in ME 2, you basically only use him for two-three missions at most.

I agree completely. Legion had the potential for some very interesting character development if they had implemented him properly. Instead we get him the last leg of the game which was a terrible design choice imo. He still worked out to be one of the more interesting characters but I feel there could have been so much more concerning him and the Geth.

[JPfanner]

Part of it also seems due to the current DLC "strategy". I don't think anyone would deny that the current and soon to be DLC all consists of content that was either finished at release or very close to it. You've got Zaeed, Kasumi, Hammerhead, and Liara/Shadowbroker. It is almost as at some point they picked out sections to chop out merely for the sake of adding them back in later as DLC.

Liara's whole scene is an incarnation of too much editing to accomodate content changes and not enough polishing for cohesion. The end result is confusion.

[Noxis6]

screwoffreg wrote...

Well, the new story gives them some options. They can use the Shadow Broker more indepth and I guess if you can make Liara more complex. I see it as an opportunity, but if they hurry again they certainlycan really blow it.

Sure there are many ways this could play out.

1.Liara getting comsumed by her hate and Shepard has to smack some sense back into her.

2.The Shadow Broker beats her up(not literaly) an you have to save her before he finishes her off

3.Or just repurpose what was cut in some way

Just to name a few

[Taritu]

It really feels like story changes that didn't get put back together again properly. This is a major problem when you make major revisions to a story or even non-fiction, stuff can be left dangling or incomplete, or feel out of place.

[screwoffreg]

At least with Dragon Age, major character DLC was introducted WITH the game as to not make you miss critical parts of their development. If Kasumi ever comes out, most people will have played out ME 2 and unless she is amazingly well developed, what is the incentive to replay again just for her? I guess everyone can save right before the Reaper IFF and have her for the last few missions on every save...

[AndroLeonidas]

JPfanner wrote...

Part of it also seems due to the current DLC "strategy". I don't think anyone would deny that the current and soon to be DLC all consists of content that was either finished at release or very close to it. You've got Zaeed, Kasumi, Hammerhead, and Liara/Shadowbroker. It is almost as at some point they picked out sections to chop out merely for the sake of adding them back in later as DLC.
Liara's whole scene is an incarnation of too much editing to accomodate content changes and not enough polishing for cohesion. The end result is confusion.

But we don't know for sure if there will be a Liara DLC. Zaeed was pointless in my opinion. Kasumi? What for? Another female romantic interest? The Hammerhead I can see? All of these were known or preey much confirmed by the time th egame came out. No real certainy of a Liara DLC which kind of scares me in some ways.

[mione]

o.o . . . .



Oh my god you guys are right she does say something to Femshep before the kiss! my Liara love just went up +100 she does still love my femsheps T.T thanks so much for pointing this out. That scene has a totally different meaning now/

[Noxis6]

Corti78 wrote...
I agree completely. Legion had the potential for some very interesting character development if they had implemented him properly.

Actually thats what I get from most of the ME2 squad,its like they had a lot of interesting ideas but did never go trough with them,many squadmates are lacking somewhat content wise esspecially the romance interest if you have the "wrong" gender or dont romance them.

[AndroLeonidas]

mione wrote...

o.o . . . .

Oh my god you guys are right she does say something to Femshep before the kiss! my Liara love just went up +100 she does still love my femsheps T.T thanks so much for pointing this out. That scene has a totally different meaning now/

Grumble grumble because I'm male shep!!! Video! I want video proof of this!!! lol!

[screwoffreg]

Well, Liara DLC may be far off anyway. If it at all connects with ME 3, we probably won't see it until very late this year or next year, as we move closer to ME 3. EA has an ME related game (DLC not a full game) scheduled for early 2011. I imagine it will be an expansion of sorts, to be worth mentioning on their conference call, and I think its perfect timing if ME 3 is scheduled for late 2011/early 2012 as it will be nearly a year away at that point.

[Driveninhifi]

Actually, I really like where they've taken Liara's character because it gives her the potential for a whole lot of depth. I don't buy the anger or her strongarming people, but the idea of her being good at disseminating information and having to deal with horrible guilt for 2 years is very compelling.



The implementation was absolutely horrible though and they don't do anything with the potential. It's a real shame, since they could make her the character with the most complex relationship to Shepard. They didn't put in the necessary detail to do so, though.



As for DLC, I think it will feel extremely false if Shepard and Liara can't talk about their relationship. Even if she's not the LI, she must feel something very close to love or adoration in order to attempt to recover the body.

Ideally, they'd handle the actual mission similar to Jack's loyalty - where she comments on everything and you can ask for more detail on specific items and video logs. The player needs all the blanks filled in, because they likely have no read the comic. Then, afterward, the two really need a long discussion to talk about what happens next (whether they are lovers or not). If she's the love interest, it's totally unbelievable that this would not include a discussion about the two of them. Not including it is being willfully obtuse and doesn't make any sense at all.

I don't think it makes sense for her to stay on Illium and analyze data though. Maybe if she's really paranoid about Cerberus - but that seems like a lame cop-out to make sure she's not a squaddie more than anything else.

[JPfanner]

AndroLeonidas wrote...

But we don't know for sure if there will be a Liara DLC. Zaeed was pointless in my opinion. Kasumi? What for? Another female romantic interest? The Hammerhead I can see? All of these were known or preey much confirmed by the time th egame came out. No real certainy of a Liara DLC which kind of scares me in some ways.

Sure, I'll admit that it is an assumption.  There's the leadin files for Liara DLC and the comments about DLC related to the comics.  But they haven't actually came out and said anything definite yet lately.  So those leadin files could end up never being used, and the DLC related to the comics might be some awesome cool heavy weapon with twice the lens flare and colored lighting effects of any current heavy weapon!
I need some optimism though, really after the bruising I took in ME2 I've got to hang onto the hope of some more Liara goodness.