50907 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

screwoffreg, maybe it's because of my own religious upbringing, but I kind of like your idea.

[Erinlana]

i wish there was more dialogue when you met Liara on Illium , you kiss her but not much esle relates to your past realtionship =(

[Marcin K]

screwoffreg wrote...

Noxis6 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...
I really hope the Reaper's motives are fleshed out as it seems likely the final Paragon/Renegade choice will be to help or destroy them.

There are really some wonderfully complex things they can do with the Reapers beyond the "they are space zombies and destroy everything" as it seems now.  One could almost make the character sympathetic to their ends...

I dont know I thought the same thing about the darkspawn after the Architect was introduced in the DA novel,but they never evolved above being a faceless zombie army at least in the main game cant speak for Awakening since I didnt buy it

The zombie thing can work as it always has:

The Reapers are faceless, but are like a closing wall on the Galaxy that forces out the worst parts of human/sentient nature.  In the end, as cliched as it is, the real "monsters" are...surprise, US, sentient life with all of our faults.  Big shocker and the story has been done since BEFORE Night of the Living Dead ever came out.

I think a view of the Reapers are genuinely believing they are a force of "Good" and positive change is a profound one.  What they offer is salvation for a select species from war, want, famine, loss and even death.  Even if sentient life defeats them, their victory is doomed as such unity is destined never to last and be replaced with the cycle of violence and murder as it always has been.  With the Reapers, they offer one species, humanity, a "rapture" from that fate. 

It could be almost Biblical really.  That may be because I had a history very steeped in religion so I see the dramatic power of such stories though...

Thinking of Liara in particular, I could imagine Harbringer offering Shepard at the end the opportunty to be "forever united" with their romance in a perfect union as a God-Machine or something similiar.

i partially agree, but -REAPERS as BRINGERS OF PEACE AND HAPPINESS ???:blink:
that does't feel right, man it's even odd to write it-in short i don't buy it....

[MassAffected]

screwoffreg: Very interesting idea, I like it...especially the last part. That would be a great test of character for Shepard.

[MassAffected]

Marcin, I think he meant that is how the Reapers view themselves and what they do every 50,000 years. I might be wrong though.

[Noxis6]

screwoffreg wrote...
The zombie thing can work as it always has:

The Reapers are faceless, but are like a closing wall on the Galaxy that forces out the worst parts of human/sentient nature.  In the end, as cliched as it is, the real "monsters" are...surprise, US, sentient life with all of our faults.  Big shocker and the story has been done since BEFORE Night of the Living Dead ever came out.

I think a view of the Reapers are genuinely believing they are a force of "Good" and positive change is a profound one.  What they offer is salvation for a select species from war, want, famine, loss and even death.  Even if sentient life defeats them, their victory is doomed as such unity is destined never to last and be replaced with the cycle of violence and murder as it always has been.  With the Reapers, they offer one species, humanity, a "rapture" from that fate. 

It could be almost Biblical really.  That may be because I had a history very steeped in religion so I see the dramatic power of such stories though...

Thinking of Liara in particular, I could imagine Harbringer offering Shepard at the end the opportunty to be "forever united" with their romance in a perfect union as a God-Machine or something similiar.

Well thats what I get for sleeping through most of my religion classes,didnt saw that way before,while I can see Shepard being some kind of messiah,I'm not a fan of heroic sacrifice or Shepard having to die for the galaxies sins,though a reasoning with the reapers about why they do what they do would be nice,Sovereign wasnt that talkative when it came to this

[screwoffreg]

jtav wrote...

screwoffreg, maybe it's because of my own religious upbringing, but I kind of like your idea.

Whatever one thinks of religion (I know I have my opinions), to deny the Bible is one of the most influential literary works in Western history is...well...foolish.

I could imagine the choice for Shepard would be very difficult really.  Yeah, you save the Galaxy and are a hero, yeah!  Then a few years later, the batarians hate the humans again.  The asari go back to being arrogant, the turians are still warlike, etc etc.  Unity begins to crumble and before you know it, as the Matriarch on Illium said, the old ways are back.  Colonies are destroyed, millions are dying, wars, disease, etc. 

Just think of the evil that sentient life has done so far.  The genophage is a "benevolent" form of genocide.  The Rachni were made nearly extinct.  Slavery for profit and sex is widespread.  Drugs, murder for hire, all the grimey crap of existence.  Hell, even see Liara as a sign of the times.  Powerful, well bred but mostly "innocent" and then turns to a profession which by its nature is ugly.

Even if Shepard wins the war, he will die, as he did before.  When the happens, the Galaxy will forget the sacrifices made and he will become a footnote in history.  His friends, who are still alive, will move on.  The Reaper War will be a story told to children to scare them.

Will anything really change?  Will it be worth it?

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

That really got my imagination turning in terms of a particularly chilling ending to ME3. Suppose a Renegade Shepard agrees to that, but Liara refuses. How horrible would it be if Shepard forces something like that on Liara against her will, and makes her join him/her as becoming part of the Reapers? Truly chilling concept you've got there, screw.

I think you have to remember what type of game youre playing.

This isnt KOTOR. Shepard is the HERO, no matter what. S/He might not be a popular one, lots of people might die around Shepard, but ultimately the job gets done. The only question is at what cost.

Its a great idea, but I think it would be very jarring for Shepard to finish up in ME3 as anything other than the saviour of the galaxy, dead or alive.

I have a hard time imagining a deal with the reapers, or Shepard turning into some kind of galacitc conquerer for a human empire.

[Marcin K]

MassAffected wrote...

Marcin, I think he meant that is how the Reapers view themselves and what they do every 50,000 years. I might be wrong though.

oh that way-then i must misunderstood, sorry, as for Liara& Shep joining into a Reaper -brrr my Paragon Pure  Male Shep [only 1 i got] says: "thanks, but no thanks"

[screwoffreg]

Marcin R wrote...

MassAffected wrote...

Marcin, I think he meant that is how the Reapers view themselves and what they do every 50,000 years. I might be wrong though.

oh that way-then i must misunderstood, sorry, as for Liara& Shep joining into a Reaper -brrr my Paragon Pure  Male Shep [only 1 i got] says: "thanks, but no thanks"

If we see Liara as a Bastila type character, perhaps if you are Paragon then obviously the only solution that works for the the romance is to destroy the Reapers and remain as a "mortal".

If you push her down the renegade road, maybe her love becomes rather...twisted in its devotion and she is more willing to follow Shepard in whatever he decides to do.

There is precedent for this sort of ending in Bioware and outside of it.  Look at the ending of BG II.  You are given the option of destroying the Throne of Bhaal and living a mortal life with your friends and romance.  There is some interesting dialogue with your LI as you discuss what is best for you...to claim your destiny as a God (Good or Evil, depending on alignment) or stay with her. 

A lot of other games have done this as well.  There is "nothing new under the sun" when it comes to stories, its all about how well you can reuse them.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 22 avril 2010 - 05:06 .

[MassAffected]

screwoffreg, while your idea is very interesting I don't really think that we will be able to make Shep a "villain" of sorts. Regardless of his Paragon/Renegade status...he is still supposed to be the "hero" of the Mass Effect trilogy. I doubt that BioWare would give us the option to join with the Reapers.

[screwoffreg]

MassAffected wrote...

screwoffreg, while your idea is very interesting I don't really think that we will be able to make Shep a "villain" of sorts. Regardless of his Paragon/Renegade status...he is still supposed to be the "hero" of the Mass Effect trilogy. I doubt that BioWare would give us the option to join with the Reapers.

It's not really a villain choice though.  If he helps Cerberus he is pretty much endorsing their "at any cost" philosophy which involved human experimentation as well as a host of other war crimes.  Doesn't that make him a villain, more so if he gives them the Base?

I think Bioware is aiming for the "blurring of the lines" type of morality.  They tried to make ME 2 dark and according to Mark Meer' from what he has heard, ME 3 will be even darker...

[MassAffected]

True, but he still fights against the Reapers. They remain the BBG of Mass Effect. To give him the option of joining them, to me, would turn him into a villain for sure.

[bjdbwea]

I wouldn't mind if they repeated what they did in ToB, but I know my PC always decides to remain a mere mortal at the side of their LI. But I doubt BioWare/EA would implement such "complicated stuff" in their ME games anymore. Don't want to have the new audience throw the game into the trash bin out of frustration about having too much to think and too little to shoot, right? Right now I hope that at least they don't enforce one ending where Shepard has to die. They are certainly tempted, as it would save them a lot of development time, but I want a simple happy ending to be one possibility, otherwise I really doubt if I would buy the game at all.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 22 avril 2010 - 05:16 .

[screwoffreg]

MassAffected wrote...

True, but he still fights against the Reapers. They remain the BBG of Mass Effect. To give him the option of joining them, to me, would turn him into a villain for sure.

Well I think that is what ME 3 could accomplish if it tried.  There are signs of a lot of uglines coming in the last game.

Admiral Xen's experiments and a war with the Geth
Hints of an Alliance connection to the Reapers themselves (Kasumi DLC)
Batarians capturing a Reaper ship and spiriting it away (Leviathan of Dis)
Results of Krogan war and whether they can unite in time
The Council and its apparent indifference. 

Etc etc etc. In the course of the game imagine as you see the "faults" of sentient life (the walls closing in as they do in Zombie movies), it becomes more unclear as to who the real villains are.

It would be disappointing really to make the Reapers the typical "lol we're evil!!!!!!! muwahahahahaha" . They don't even have a recognizable character to hate like Jon Irenicus...

[MassAffected]

The scenario as you describe it would be very awesome...it would challenge the belief system of some of the players and make them feel at a bit of a loss. What makes it so interesting to me is that it becomes an amazing test of character for Shepard and the players behind him. Do they take the so called "high road" and tough it out...or do they give in and give up on "humanity" (other sentient races) just so there could be galactic "peace". The only thing I don't agree with is that the Reapers could be a force of "good". They might try to come off like that, but in the end I still think that they should be the bad guys.

[screwoffreg]

yorkj86 wrote...

If we accept that Shepard is the center of the story, and that he empowers others to fight the Reapers, then to have him sacrifice himself for a personal end, even a romantic one, would make him a villain, murderer, genocidal maniac, all of the above, in the process. 

Not every species gets to become a Reaper.  The Reapers choose the species that is most genetically fit.  This is humanity, currently, according to the Reapers.  The other species are wiped out.  In fact, if Cerberus is humanity's advocate, and TIM  wants what's best for humanity, then to permit the Reapers to assimilate humanity would be the true, clear path to ascension.   If this is correct, then Cerberus makes no sense.  If they were for humans ascending to Reaper-hood, they could be true terrorists.

That's why it would be the renegade ending

Let's assume a part of the Alliance has been infiltrated by the Reapers (old Babylon 5 reference, to be honest) as the Kasumi DLC somewhat suggests (picture of Reaper in memory of Kasumi's lover, warnings about danger to Alliance credibility).  Shepard may not be the only one vying for the "best" result for the species. 

Also Legion at the end of ME 2 warns Shepard that it will be within the capability of humanity, with the Base, to have the type of unity the Geth have, and maybe more so.  A dangerous power really.

Also, you have to ask yourself why the Collectors/Reapers REALLY want Shepard.  They are not idiots and they have to realize that genetically 99.99999999999999 percent of humans share the same fundamental genetic structure, minus a hair's breath of difference.  They don't NEED Shepard for his supposed magical genetics.  Wouldn't you want him instead as either a symbol, as Cerberus wants, and perhaps a Trojan horse?

The newest Bioware book deals with Reaper implants in humans.  What if the Reapers captured Shepard somehow and implanted his body with their technology and allowed him to return to his "mission".  He would hear their voice, understand their minds, and perhaps ,with time, be their real Harbringer.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 22 avril 2010 - 05:26 .

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

The newest Bioware book deals with Reaper implants in humans.  What if the Reapers captured Shepard somehow and implanted his body with their technology and allowed him to return to his "mission".  He would hear their voice, understand their minds, and perhaps ,with time, be their real Harbringer.

As astonishingly lame as that will be I've been expecting it ever since we saw the first picture of Renegade Shep's scars.

[Noxis6]

screwoffreg wrote...
That's why it would be the renegade ending

Let's assume a part of the Alliance has been infiltrated by the Reapers (old Babylon 5 reference, to be honest) as the Kasumi DLC somewhat suggests (picture of Reaper in memory of Kasumi's lover, warnings about danger to Alliance credibility).  Shepard may not be the only one vying for the "best" result for the species. 

Also Legion at the end of ME 2 warns Shepard that it will be within the capability of humanity, with the Base, to have the type of unity the Geth have, and maybe more so.  A dangerous power really.

Also, you have to ask yourself why the Collectors REALLY want Shepard.  They are not idiots and they have to realize that genetically 99.99999999999999 percent of humans share the same fundamental genetic structure, minus a hair's breath of difference.  They don't NEED Shepard for his supposed magical genetics.  Wouldn't you want him instead as either a symbol, as Cerberus wants, and perhaps a Trojan horse?

The newest Bioware book deals with Reaper implants in humans.  What if the Reapers captured Shepard somehow and implanted his body with their technology and allowed him to return to his "mission".  He would hear their voice, understand their minds, and perhaps ,with time, be their real Harbringer.

I dont know if what was found in Kasumis quest really is an indicator for this,actually my money is more on the Alliance did something really stupid with the wreckage or with the parts they got from it maybe even rebuilding Sovereign,but in the end Kasumi is a DLC so effects on the main plot are doubtfull to say the least

As for reaper implants in Shepard I said earlier that already might be the case given how careless Cerberus plays around with that kind of technology,though the effects may be limited,because of the whole preserve Shepards personallity thing,I guess they will go all out on Grayson well I wonder what happens maybe he will be the face of the reapers in ME3

[screwoffreg]

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

The newest Bioware book deals with Reaper implants in humans.  What if the Reapers captured Shepard somehow and implanted his body with their technology and allowed him to return to his "mission".  He would hear their voice, understand their minds, and perhaps ,with time, be their real Harbringer.

As astonishingly lame as that will be I've been expecting it ever since we saw the first picture of Renegade Shep's scars.

It would only be lame if it is written badly.  How much lamer would it be if the Reapers turn out to be machines like in Terminator and you blow them up and everyone runs off into the sunset skipping through fields of green?