50907 réponses à ce sujet

[wolf99000]

here's one more thing I don't get about the SB and liara he knew she was the one taking your body back so why not tell the collectors to kill her also if the collectors were after anyone associated with you why did they not go after liara and if the SB is really a pawn of the reapers him saying go after liara would make more even sense

[MassAffected]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

One thing that is for certain is that Redemption shows us that the Shadow Broker was talking to the Harbinger possessed Collector General face to face, and in person. Now this says to me that he is at the Collector Base, beyond the Omega 4 relay. Evidence of his deeper involvement with the Reapers? Very much so, I would say.

People need to give Liara more credit than they do for hunting down the Shadow Broker. She even says herself "for whatever he's doing with the Collectors." She's aware of the bigger picture, she hasn't forgotten that galactic extinction could be imminent in a few years time.

I really need to read these comics...

[bjdbwea]

Nozybidaj wrote...

No tension, no emotional impact?  I'd swear you just described ME2 to me.

Well, anger is an emotion too, isn't it.

[screwoffreg]

wolf99000 wrote...

here's one more thing I don't get about the SB and liara he knew she was the one taking your body back so why not tell the collectors to kill her also if the collectors were after anyone associated with you why did they not go after liara and if the SB is really a pawn of the reapers him saying go after liara would make more even sense

The Reapers are patient.  When they saw Shepard defeat Sovereign, they found their chosen species.

They saw Liara put everything on the line to save Shepard.  Sure, they could have murdered her in her sleep, but instead, mysteriously, she is mostly unmolested for two years and gains considerable power.  They also let her continue her chase...

Judas betrayed Jesus, but there is always the philosophical question if it was meant to be, was it really his fault (according to the Bible yes, lol. He is disemboweled and hangs himself).  Sometimes a betrayal may not be so intentional and is part of a larger plan than one can imagine.

[Nozybidaj]

bjdbwea wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

No tension, no emotional impact?  I'd swear you just described ME2 to me.

Well, anger is an emotion too, isn't it.

Meh, I'm not even angry anymore.  ME simply isn't going to be a story on the level of which I enjoy anymore.  I suppose there isn't anything inherently wrong with that, just disappointing.  I suppose disappointment could be considered emotional impact, but I don't think that is exactly what we were talking about.

Maybe bordem too?  Having a slow day at work and trying to fill my downtime.

[screwoffreg]

bjdbwea wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

No tension, no emotional impact?  I'd swear you just described ME2 to me.

Well, anger is an emotion too, isn't it.

Well, it is easy to jump all over Mac and the writing team, but I imagine none of them said "you know what I hate everyone lets screw the fans over muwahahahaha!".  It was more like "lets make this more interesting".  We can argue forever about how well they achieved that goal, and it seems overwhelmingly people have problems not with Liara's turn and the darker tone of the game, rather with how well it may have been done (most say not well).

[screwoffreg]

Nozybidaj wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

No tension, no emotional impact?  I'd swear you just described ME2 to me.

Well, anger is an emotion too, isn't it.

Meh, I'm not even angry anymore.  ME simply isn't going to be a story on the level of which I enjoy anymore.  I suppose there isn't anything inherently wrong with that, just disappointing.  I suppose disappointment could be considered emotional impact, but I don't think that is exactly what we were talking about.

Maybe bordem too?  Having a slow day at work and trying to fill my downtime.

There is actually a position at Bioware of someone who gathers fan feedback and relays it to developers to help influence their games.  I am sure they are well aware of how badly received some of their choices were.

At least they hear the message and I think they are doing their best to maybe rectify some of what has happened.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 22 avril 2010 - 06:43 .

[wolf99000]

just read the mass effect wiki page on asari and if you read the bit about biology does this not count ferron and her being in love out as her and shepard are linked



An asari's melding ability extends to a mental connection as well, which Liara describes as being the true union between an asari and her partner. It allows the asari to explore her partner's genetic heritage and pass desirable traits on to any offspring. During mating an asari and her partner share memories, thoughts, and feelings.

[Asheer_Khan]

I can imagine Lotr 2 where Frodo joins Saruman and he help him continuing his journey to Mount Doom because he want to direct Frodo right in hand of Sauron... when every others give up thier fight claiming that return of Sauron is just a humbug.

Sounds ridiculous but that's how ME 2 was writen and i too start suspecting that ME 3 will be more or less stand alone game.

Bioware failed two times to produce valuable sequels to thier greatest games (NWN2 and Kotor 2) and i known that those failures (don't get me wrong both games were great but as stand alones not related to first games (especially NWN 2) might be placed on shoulders of the Obsydian but right now when Bioware decided to firm all three games (from today's point of view little too bold called trilogy) whit his name and frankly created (again) stand alones made me really wonder if they really known what they doing?

Someone from staff says once that they listening "advices" of the fans about changes in ME 2 comparing to ME 1 but i beg to pardon i don't remember (and i did read old forum) that anyone suggested such extreme changes.

There were suggestions about more flatter terrain on planets during exploration, slight work on Mako's performance (like longer lasted rocket trusters) and many more or less cosmetic changes and tweakings and what they do instead i don't need to say...
I am not quite sure if they will be able to turn back from road they walk and actually save ME 3 from disaster as RPG game...

I have no doubts that ME 3 TpS will recive marvelous reviews from "sunday" reviewers and this series will attract another flow of of fans who will have no idea what is all about in core plot but they will enjoyed pure action... but what about us... veterans of the first game?

Bad things happened in Bioware's development departament and i am afraid rest will be just a silence...

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 22 avril 2010 - 06:51 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Nozybidaj wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

No tension, no emotional impact?  I'd swear you just described ME2 to me.

Well, anger is an emotion too, isn't it.

Meh, I'm not even angry anymore.  ME simply isn't going to be a story on the level of which I enjoy anymore.  I suppose there isn't anything inherently wrong with that, just disappointing.  I suppose disappointment could be considered emotional impact, but I don't think that is exactly what we were talking about.

Maybe bordem too?  Having a slow day at work and trying to fill my downtime.

I hope you don't mind me saying that I'm glad I'm not you.

[screwoffreg]

I'd like to think with the benefits of hindsight, once the expansion is out next year and shortly thereafter the last game, we will be able to see an improvement in our spirits in regards to the ME series.

The second game had its strengths as well as some glaring weaknesses. Bioware was trying something new, a shooter type game, and while they have amazing combat, they lost some of the balance in regards to RPG and story elements. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to learning and adapting.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 22 avril 2010 - 06:55 .

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

  It was more like "lets make this more interesting". 

BW employee #1:  We need to make these old characters more interesting
BW employee #2:  I know what we should do with them.  Nothing!
BW employee #1:  Nothing?
BW employee #2:  Yeah nothing, don't even include them in the game.  It'll be great, the fans are gonna love it.
BW employee #1:  Wow, that's really dark and amped up.  Guess that's why you make the big bucks.

<_<

[bjdbwea]

screwoffreg wrote...

Well, it is easy to jump all over Mac and the writing team, but I imagine none of them said "you know what I hate everyone lets screw the fans over muwahahahaha!".  It was more like "lets make this more interesting".  We can argue forever about how well they achieved that goal, and it seems overwhelmingly people have problems not with Liara's turn and the darker tone of the game, rather with how well it may have been done (most say not well).

I've refrained from criticizing individuals so far. I don't know what other projects he was involved in. And what about the others? Are they all bad writers? It could be, good writers are very rare in the video gaming industry, or rather they usually aren't demanded all that much. The curious thing is that at some points in the game, really good writing does shine through. Especially Mordin is on a whole different level in comparison to all other companions, almost as if someone else wrote that content. Isn't the main writer from ME 1 working on that MMO, but is not also said he still helped somewhat?

It could of course also be that Mordin was written very early, and that's more my point. I actually do not think that they're all bad writers, and I certainly do not believe that it was their intention to screw the fans. I do believe that they had to work on an almost impossible time limit, and had to cut corners everywhere. Had to cut content too, at one point or another. I am also sure that they were instructed to focus on the action, and dial down the "distracting" story bits, as well as the possible different outcomes that would have to be taken into consideration for ME 3 (reducing development time for that). And that someone decided to tone down romances is obvious too. Maybe that's an additional reason why Liara got it worst of all ME 1 LIs. We'll see soon enough if the writers have to sweep her romance under the rug.

Bottom line: The best writer can't write a good story if his hands are tied behind his back.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 22 avril 2010 - 07:01 .

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

At least they hear the message and I think they are doing their best to maybe rectify some of what has happened.

Well that certainly remains to be seen.  

Short of some mind blowingly epic beyond all expectations expansion pack I can't imagine any way to turn around this train wreck of character assassination they have put these characters on.

[screwoffreg]

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

  It was more like "lets make this more interesting". 

BW employee #1:  We need to make these old characters more interesting
BW employee #2:  I know what we should do with them.  Nothing!
BW employee #1:  Nothing?
BW employee #2:  Yeah nothing, don't even include them in the game.  It'll be great, the fans are gonna love it.
BW employee #1:  Wow, that's really dark and amped up.  Guess that's why you make the big bucks.

<_<

Hey, I agree with you in many ways. While I might have taken the "Liara is darker route...", they way in which they did it was such a transparent attempt at "lets make these characters unlikeable so people cheat and forget them" that even in my defense of writers everywhere I have to acknowledge that fault.

They wanted to get fans to give a visceral reaction to Liara and Ashley/Kaiden. The reaction was "wow these people suck".  Of course, as Liara fans, we look deeper, but I'd imagine Casey Hudson's quote that he thought most everyone would cheat has come to fruition.

[jtav]

I find the whole "darker and edgier" thing a mixed bag.I found the ME2 team more compelling overall. (Don't kill me I still like Liara) The retcon of Cerberus still confuses me, but I find the more nuanced take on the quarian/geth conflict interesting. I I appreciate the direction they're trying to take Liara's character, but her motivations are so muddled, you really have a hard time figuring out what's going on. ME3 is either going to be epic or a mess. Since I generally liked ME2, I choose to be optimistic.

[screwoffreg]

jtav wrote...

I find the whole "darker and edgier" thing a mixed bag.I found the ME2 team more compelling overall. (Don't kill me I still like Liara) The retcon of Cerberus still confuses me, but I find the more nuanced take on the quarian/geth conflict interesting. I I appreciate the direction they're trying to take Liara's character, but her motivations are so muddled, you really have a hard time figuring out what's going on. ME3 is either going to be epic or a mess. Since I generally liked ME2, I choose to be optimistic.

Like someone said there were deadlines, rewrites, mandates, as well as different writers working on different things.It was probably just easier to make Liara/Ashley/Kaiden blow off Shepard and move on, especially since new players wouldn't be emotionally invested in them anyway.

Hell, Redemption is inconsistent, from what summaries I have read, with some of what ME 2 the game says.lol.

[ratzerman]

Too much talk! Not enough cute!







Better. OK..... continue.

[Nozybidaj]

screwoffreg wrote...

Like someone said there were deadlines, rewrites, mandates, as well as different writers working on different things.It was probably just easier to make Liara/Ashley/Kaiden blow off Shepard and move on, especially since new players wouldn't be emotionally invested in them anyway.

Hell, Redemption is inconsistent, from what summaries I have read, with some of what ME 2 the game says.lol.

Ah yes, blow off the emotional investment of your old fans and just move on.  That's a real sign of quality story telling right there. <_<

I just find it hard to believe that no one at BW liked the old LI's enough to stop and say "you know what, maybe this isn't such a great idea".  Did all the "real" writers and creators get shipped off to TOR and all they had left to work on ME was a bunch of hacks and the night time janitorial staff?  I bet at least the janitorial staff would have recognized that it probably wasn't a good idea either.

[MassAffected]

jtav wrote...

I find the whole "darker and edgier" thing a mixed bag.I found the ME2 team more compelling overall. (Don't kill me I still like Liara) The retcon of Cerberus still confuses me, but I find the more nuanced take on the quarian/geth conflict interesting. I I appreciate the direction they're trying to take Liara's character, but her motivations are so muddled, you really have a hard time figuring out what's going on. ME3 is either going to be epic or a mess. Since I generally liked ME2, I choose to be optimistic.

It could always be an Epic Mess...

Like you, I remain optimistic and hopeful.