50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Leather_Rebel90]

Marcin R wrote...

and i think the  romance plot in ME3 ending will have a frame like this:
depending on your choices:
-betrayed in ME2
a) things go bad, Liara gets evil and killed [renegade]
rescued from turning completely villain but her ways with Shepard cross out and completely separate [paragon]
OR
-stayed loyal
a)she turns evil , but shepard comforts her and helps her get bak on 'bright side', but they separate[semi-renegade]
b)she starts to turn evil, but Shepard sees it at very beggining and stops the process [in some drastic way], but Liara is being scared by change that was starting to rise in her and some time later [AFTER REAPERS DEFEATED] she gives Shepard shepard dramatic choice:
-stay in N7 /SPECTRE/stuff like that and we [Shep nad Liara] only stay friends etc.
--or dump N7/military career/all save galaxy stuff [retired hero as ppl will see him][something like Anderson's status maybe] BUT go into permanent relationship with Liara [marriage equal level of deep life-lasting], settle on some planet and have offspring
____
what do you think about such ending frame?

There'd be a LOT of retired heros because I'm sure just about everyone will retire and marry Liara.

[jlb524]

Nozybidaj wrote...

If we want to assume that BW aren't complete screw ups (I'm on the fence with that atm) then they obviously pushed her so far down this dark path and so far into this shadowy underworld for a purpose.  I don' t think they are just going to have you rescue her from the SB and have it all be over.  I think that is only going to push her further into it, having her take some "position" in that vacumn that would be created by his absence.

I wouldn't be surprised if BW made Liara a villian in ME3.  They've done something similar twice before (Bastilla in KOTOR and Aribeth in Neverwinter Nights).   The protagonist's love falls to the 'dark side' or decides to join the enemy cause and it is up to the protagonist ot either save her or kill her.

If they go this route, I just hope they execute it well.

[Leather_Rebel90]

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

If we want to assume that BW aren't complete screw ups (I'm on the fence with that atm) then they obviously pushed her so far down this dark path and so far into this shadowy underworld for a purpose.  I don' t think they are just going to have you rescue her from the SB and have it all be over.  I think that is only going to push her further into it, having her take some "position" in that vacumn that would be created by his absence.

I wouldn't be surprised if BW made Liara a villian in ME3.  They've done something similar twice before (Bastilla in KOTOR and Aribeth in Neverwinter Nights).   The protagonist's love falls to the 'dark side' or decides to join the enemy cause and it is up to the protagonist ot either save her or kill her.

If they go this route, I just hope they execute it well.

If they go this route, I'll destroy BioWare and everyone who took part in writing ME's story!

[Marcin K]

Leather_Rebel90 wrote...

Marcin R wrote...

and i think the  romance plot in ME3 ending will have a frame like this:
depending on your choices:
-betrayed in ME2
a) things go bad, Liara gets evil and killed [renegade]
rescued from turning completely villain but her ways with Shepard cross out and completely separate [paragon]
OR
-stayed loyal
a)she turns evil , but shepard comforts her and helps her get bak on 'bright side', but they separate[semi-renegade]
b)she starts to turn evil, but Shepard sees it at very beggining and stops the process [in some drastic way], but Liara is being scared by change that was starting to rise in her and some time later [AFTER REAPERS DEFEATED] she gives Shepard shepard dramatic choice:
-stay in N7 /SPECTRE/stuff like that and we [Shep nad Liara] only stay friends etc.
--or dump N7/military career/all save galaxy stuff [retired hero as ppl will see him][something like Anderson's status maybe] BUT go into permanent relationship with Liara [marriage equal level of deep life-lasting], settle on some planet and have offspring
____
what do you think about such ending frame?

There'd be a LOT of retired heros because I'm sure just about everyone will retire and marry Liara.

good one Leather_Rebel90, really good one coclusion:D

Modifié par Marcin R, 19 février 2010 - 05:27 .

[DigitalMaster37]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...
You are completely wrong man, that is pessimism 101.

With any rational thinking, we Liara fans will get at the very least the same type of closure as any other LI. As far as optimism goes, we might get a step above is history serves us right, cause Liara is the most canonical of all of the characters, meaning BioWare can spend a ton of time developing her character as she will be in everybody's playthrough. If anything we Liara fans have more going for us than just about any other LI out there.

Maybe, maybe not.  If we want to assume that BW aren't complete screw ups (I'm on the fence with that atm) then they obviously pushed her so far down this dark path and so far into this shadowy underworld for a purpose.  I don' t think they are just going to have you rescue her from the SB and have it all be over.  I think that is only going to push her further into it, having her take some "position" in that vacumn that would be created by his absence.

You have a point only in knowing that BioWare does have a plan for her, but your pessimism is completely unsupported and unwarranted. I almost know it will be a happy ending or the next best thing, but to just say it will go south is pure pessimism.

Your lack of faith in BioWare is also a tad offputting, because they have done such a good job and we are simply stuck at a point where the Liara story arc is at a serious cliffhanger and that is what is causing you grief as well as the rest of us. But knowing BioWare, they will finish the story and it will stick with us probably for the rest of our lives.

I think that is the "important" role they have planned for her.  Not all the LI's are going to have super happy endings and I think Liara is the one targetted for that.  I fully expect that the "conclusion" to this romance will have them, at best, parting ways.  At worst turning into enemies and possibly having one kill the other.

No, just no. It wouldn't make any sense. The SB is probably a pet of the reapers and at the very worst, Liara can get entangled in that somehow, but knowing BioWare, she won't be killed off without giving us a choice in the matter and/or if she does become evil (that is so far out there, and I really, really doubt it to become true) then again BioWare will give us a choice in either turning her back or killing her. Either way, we will have a choice in the matter. Watch what I tell you.

Lastly, that whole theory period can be so far off and we just get a happy, happy ending with no trials like ^ to worry about. You have reached a level of pessimism only rivaled by.....I can't even compare it, lol. Cheer up man.

[yeldarbnotned]

justinnstuff wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

If we want to assume that BW aren't complete screw ups (I'm on the fence with that atm) then they obviously pushed her so far down this dark path and so far into this shadowy underworld for a purpose.  I don' t think they are just going to have you rescue her from the SB and have it all be over.  I think that is only going to push her further into it, having her take some "position" in that vacumn that would be created by his absence.

I wouldn't be surprised if BW made Liara a villian in ME3.  They've done something similar twice before (Bastilla in KOTOR and Aribeth in Neverwinter Nights).   The protagonist's love falls to the 'dark side' or decides to join the enemy cause and it is up to the protagonist ot either save her or kill her.

If they go this route, I just hope they execute it well.

Good observation. I think you're onto something. Adding those examples from all the other BioWare games I've played just rung a bell. It's a very slippery slope. Right now she has a noble cause, but who knows where that will lead. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Still though, she's doing everything out of love for Shepard, I don't know how bad it can really get. I want to remain optimistic, so I will.

At least Bastila had an excuse,  I think being tormented by a Sith Lord would make anyone nutty.

[The BS Police]

You know I was thinking, what if the Shadow Broker turned out to be Liara's Father? Seriously think about it, imagine her predicament after spending so much time tracking down the SB in hopes of killing him only to find out that the SB is her Father?

Modifié par The BS Police, 19 février 2010 - 05:39 .

[DigitalMaster37]

justinnstuff wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

If we want to assume that BW aren't complete screw ups (I'm on the fence with that atm) then they obviously pushed her so far down this dark path and so far into this shadowy underworld for a purpose.  I don' t think they are just going to have you rescue her from the SB and have it all be over.  I think that is only going to push her further into it, having her take some "position" in that vacumn that would be created by his absence.

I wouldn't be surprised if BW made Liara a villian in ME3.  They've done something similar twice before (Bastilla in KOTOR and Aribeth in Neverwinter Nights).   The protagonist's love falls to the 'dark side' or decides to join the enemy cause and it is up to the protagonist ot either save her or kill her.

If they go this route, I just hope they execute it well.

Good observation. I think you're onto something. Adding those examples from all the other BioWare games I've played just rung a bell. It's a very slippery slope. Right now she has a noble cause, but who knows where that will lead. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Still though, she's doing everything out of love for Shepard, I don't know how bad it can really get. I want to remain optimistic, so I will.

I agree and would personally like that type of twist. I like the opportunity to save her from something, not that she isn't self sufficient because she is, but everyone needs saving at some time or another. I think that would make for an epic ending to the relationship as we turn her back to the light side and marry her and live on Illium or the Asari homeworld, or even an uncharted world. Either way, as long as BioWare gives us a choice, I'll be happy.

[DigitalMaster37]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I don't think BioWare having ever intended Liara to become a villain. Think about it, originally the SB plot was resolved in a side-mission in ME2. If that was to be her "Start of Darkness", so to speak, it wouldn't have been such a small and trivial part of ME2.

I disagree slightly, because don't forget the comic and the possible DLC. That could be where they cultivate it. We might see such a thing, but at best that is wild speculation.

Yet we might be on to something. Liara going down the dark path, headed for becoming the next Saren and we have to save her before such a tragedy...I like it, although I don't like the idea of a reaper manipulating my Liara, but boy does it bring emotion to the destruction of the reapers.

I would be amped throughout the entire game until I send those bugs to oblivion.

[yeldarbnotned]

The BS Police wrote...

You know I was thinking, what if the Shadow Broker turned out to be Liara's Father? Seriously think about it, imagine her predicament after spending so much time tracking down the SB in hopes of killing him only to find out that the SB is her Father?

POOR LIARA!   She would still kill him.  She helped kill her own evil mother.

[The BS Police]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I don't think BioWare having ever intended Liara to become a villain. Think about it, originally the SB plot was resolved in a side-mission in ME2. If that was to be her "Start of Darkness", so to speak, it wouldn't have been such a small and trivial part of ME2.

Agreed, in all honesty I think in ME3 her Loyalty mission woukld be about taking down the Shadow Broker.

Modifié par The BS Police, 19 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[MoSa09]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...
You are completely wrong man, that is pessimism 101.

With any rational thinking, we Liara fans will get at the very least the same type of closure as any other LI. As far as optimism goes, we might get a step above is history serves us right, cause Liara is the most canonical of all of the characters, meaning BioWare can spend a ton of time developing her character as she will be in everybody's playthrough. If anything we Liara fans have more going for us than just about any other LI out there.

Maybe, maybe not.  If we want to assume that BW aren't complete screw ups (I'm on the fence with that atm) then they obviously pushed her so far down this dark path and so far into this shadowy underworld for a purpose.  I don' t think they are just going to have you rescue her from the SB and have it all be over.  I think that is only going to push her further into it, having her take some "position" in that vacumn that would be created by his absence.

You have a point only in knowing that BioWare does have a plan for her, but your pessimism is completely unsupported and unwarranted. I almost know it will be a happy ending or the next best thing, but to just say it will go south is pure pessimism.

Your lack of faith in BioWare is also a tad offputting, because they have done such a good job and we are simply stuck at a point where the Liara story arc is at a serious cliffhanger and that is what is causing you grief as well as the rest of us. But knowing BioWare, they will finish the story and it will stick with us probably for the rest of our lives.

I think that is the "important" role they have planned for her.  Not all the LI's are going to have super happy endings and I think Liara is the one targetted for that.  I fully expect that the "conclusion" to this romance will have them, at best, parting ways.  At worst turning into enemies and possibly having one kill the other.

No, just no. It wouldn't make any sense. The SB is probably a pet of the reapers and at the very worst, Liara can get entangled in that somehow, but knowing BioWare, she won't be killed off without giving us a choice in the matter and/or if she does become evil (that is so far out there, and I really, really doubt it to become true) then again BioWare will give us a choice in either turning her back or killing her. Either way, we will have a choice in the matter. Watch what I tell you.

Lastly, that whole theory period can be so far off and we just get a happy, happy ending with no trials like ^ to worry about. You have reached a level of pessimism only rivaled by.....I can't even compare it, lol. Cheer up man.

Just quoting for truth. Cheer up you all. Whatever BioWare might have planned for her, she won't end up being an evil SB like villain. That's not going to happen, and running about telling how bad BioWare is and you see that coming is nothing but groundless pessimism.
Nothing in ME 1, ME 2 or the Redemption comics point out to making her a villain, and the devs all promised there will be a conclusion and a reward for those who stayed faithful.
Pls don't take any offense, i surely don't want to offend anyone or start a flamewar, and i respect and understand you feeling sorrow and unhappy, but drowning yourself in that feeling and turning to pure unreasoned pessimism is surely not going to help anyone, least of all yourself.
Mark my words, by the time ME 3 is done, you had the chance of a good ending with Liara and she was never even close to becoming a villain

[DigitalMaster37]

justinnstuff wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

If we want to assume that BW aren't complete screw ups (I'm on the fence with that atm) then they obviously pushed her so far down this dark path and so far into this shadowy underworld for a purpose.  I don' t think they are just going to have you rescue her from the SB and have it all be over.  I think that is only going to push her further into it, having her take some "position" in that vacumn that would be created by his absence.

I wouldn't be surprised if BW made Liara a villian in ME3.  They've done something similar twice before (Bastilla in KOTOR and Aribeth in Neverwinter Nights).   The protagonist's love falls to the 'dark side' or decides to join the enemy cause and it is up to the protagonist ot either save her or kill her.

If they go this route, I just hope they execute it well.

Good observation. I think you're onto something. Adding those examples from all the other BioWare games I've played just rung a bell. It's a very slippery slope. Right now she has a noble cause, but who knows where that will lead. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Still though, she's doing everything out of love for Shepard, I don't know how bad it can really get. I want to remain optimistic, so I will.

I agree and would personally like that type of twist. I like the opportunity to save her from something, not that she isn't self sufficient because she is, but everyone needs saving at some time or another. I think that would make for an epic ending to the relationship as we turn her back to the light side and marry her and live on Illium or the Asari homeworld, or even an uncharted world. Either way, as long as BioWare gives us a choice, I'll be happy.

Totally. I loved saving Aribeth in the NWN 2nd expansion and saving Bastilla from the dark side in KoToR. She saved my ass from the collectors, nothing quite like returning the favor. We would owe it to her.

You nailed it, we DO owe her and I would be more than happy to return the favor. She is worth saving let alone dying for.

[Deamon023]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...

You nailed it, we DO owe her and I would be more than happy to return the favor. She is worth saving let alone dying for.

Agreed.

[Nozybidaj]

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


No, just no. It wouldn't make any sense. The SB is probably a pet of the reapers and at the very worst, Liara can get entangled in that somehow, but knowing BioWare, she won't be killed off without giving us a choice in the matter and/or if she does become evil (that is so far out there, and I really, really doubt it to become true) then again BioWare will give us a choice in either turning her back or killing her. Either way, we will have a choice in the matter. Watch what I tell you.

Lastly, that whole theory period can be so far off and we just get a happy, happy ending with no trials like ^ to worry about. You have reached a level of pessimism only rivaled by.....I can't even compare it, lol. Cheer up man.

Well, as for the last bit I did say "at worst".  Still, what exactly has BW given me to be cheerful about?

[JPfanner]

I'd rather just have her in the squad where she belongs helping me throughout the story like she did in Mass Effect 1. I just don't see her losing sight of the big picture or ever putting herself in a situation where she'd be on the opposite side of Shepard since she is one of the very few people who knows exactly what the stakes are. Even in those extracted files she keeps looking for information because of the Shadow Brokers connection to the Collectors/Reapers.



Her vendetta against the Shadow Broker isn't really any more of a personal vendetta than what Shepard had against Saren. Sure there was a personal element involved, but really Saren and Shepard were like opposing generals. The Shadow Broker has to know about the Reapers/Collectors and what they represent and that working with them is not good business by any stretch of the imagination. So the question is why and I think Liara knows or at least thinks finding out is really important.



Another reason I don't think the whole becoming an enemy would work is simply that it wouldn't matter to some people at all. Obviously we're biased and have an emotional attachment to the character, but there are plenty of people who would just shoot her and the only thing that mattered was how many Renegade points they got for doing it.

[DigitalMaster37]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Deltaboy37-1 wrote...


No, just no. It wouldn't make any sense. The SB is probably a pet of the reapers and at the very worst, Liara can get entangled in that somehow, but knowing BioWare, she won't be killed off without giving us a choice in the matter and/or if she does become evil (that is so far out there, and I really, really doubt it to become true) then again BioWare will give us a choice in either turning her back or killing her. Either way, we will have a choice in the matter. Watch what I tell you.

Lastly, that whole theory period can be so far off and we just get a happy, happy ending with no trials like ^ to worry about. You have reached a level of pessimism only rivaled by.....I can't even compare it, lol. Cheer up man.

Well, as for the last bit I did say "at worst".  Still, what exactly has BW given me to be cheerful about?

I can sum it up in one word...Liara.

Without BioWare, there is no Liara. without Liara, you don't even have this pessimism problem.

Modifié par Deltaboy37-1, 19 février 2010 - 06:00 .