50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

JamieCOTC wrote...

I wonder if Liara will spend most of her time explaining Asari culture again in ME3? 

It will be three dialogues with the gist being "are we ready/is this relationship a good idea/do you really want me?", one of which will have a minor reference to the fact that they have done this once already.

And it will culminate in a brief, tame romantic scene

[MassAffected]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

I wonder if Liara will spend most of her time explaining Asari culture again in ME3? 

It will be three dialogues with the gist being "are we ready/is this relationship a good idea/do you really want me?", one of which will have a minor reference to the fact that they have done this once already.

And it will culminate in a brief, tame romantic scene

Craaap, the more you say it the more I believe you...

[WilliamShatner]

screwoffreg wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I understand you are much the same mind as Mac and that grimdark is the only cool way to write (don't take that too harshly) but not everyone finds overtly depressing and terribly cliche 'the hero is the villain zomg' story lines to be entertaining. There is nothing wrong with uplifting stories even if it isn't considered "cool" and "amped up".

I agree.   Only WH40K  has to be grimdark all of the time.  Let's have a happy ending.

I think you are missing my point.

A good epic makes you feel like there is actually something at stake, something to lose, and that there is a sense of sacrifice.  You can love or hate Bioware's attempt at turning Liara and ME 2 dark.  You can say it was heavy handed and not well done, etcetc.

The bottom line is, ANY writer would have probably taken a similiar philosophy.  A victory too easily gained with NOTHING lost or no real sense of foreboding would be the most uninteresting story ever.

I often think during movies "why didnt character x just do this so they could avoid that" or "why didnt the writers just let them y so they could be together".  The reason?  If writers gave us EVERYTHING we want upfront, there'd be no tension, no emotional impact. As much as we may think we WANT those things, once we would get them, I would guarantee this forum would be on fire with "wow that waslame" or "that story sucks!!!!"

Mass Effect didn't resort to any of the lame plot mechanics ME2 did and it is the most interesting and exciting game I've ever played. 

[screwoffreg]

WilliamShatner wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I understand you are much the same mind as Mac and that grimdark is the only cool way to write (don't take that too harshly) but not everyone finds overtly depressing and terribly cliche 'the hero is the villain zomg' story lines to be entertaining. There is nothing wrong with uplifting stories even if it isn't considered "cool" and "amped up".

I agree.   Only WH40K  has to be grimdark all of the time.  Let's have a happy ending.

I think you are missing my point.

A good epic makes you feel like there is actually something at stake, something to lose, and that there is a sense of sacrifice.  You can love or hate Bioware's attempt at turning Liara and ME 2 dark.  You can say it was heavy handed and not well done, etcetc.

The bottom line is, ANY writer would have probably taken a similiar philosophy.  A victory too easily gained with NOTHING lost or no real sense of foreboding would be the most uninteresting story ever.

I often think during movies "why didnt character x just do this so they could avoid that" or "why didnt the writers just let them y so they could be together".  The reason?  If writers gave us EVERYTHING we want upfront, there'd be no tension, no emotional impact. As much as we may think we WANT those things, once we would get them, I would guarantee this forum would be on fire with "wow that waslame" or "that story sucks!!!!"

Mass Effect didn't resort to any of the lame plot mechanics ME2 did and it is the most interesting and exciting game I've ever played. 

I didn't argue that some of the plot mechanics as they were EXECUTED in ME 2 were "lame" as you said.  I argued that the sequel in an "epic" trilogy usually involes new conflicts and tensions almost across the board.  That means it is by its nature a darker tale...ANY writer from the guys who do the billboard ads to JRR Tolkien would probably have pushed the story in such a direction

[AZ RUSH]

Liara will rejoin Shepard, and turn back into the loving, shy Asari she was. She has to and that's why she's the only unkillable (not a word) squadmate.

[MassAffected]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

What Dink is describing is the absolute worst case scenario, though.

I think Liara's romance in ME3 will go alot deeper than that.

I know, I still remain hopeful and optimistic...its just that the last 3 pages of negativity have gotten to me lol.

[WilliamShatner]

screwoffreg wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

I understand you are much the same mind as Mac and that grimdark is the only cool way to write (don't take that too harshly) but not everyone finds overtly depressing and terribly cliche 'the hero is the villain zomg' story lines to be entertaining. There is nothing wrong with uplifting stories even if it isn't considered "cool" and "amped up".

I agree.   Only WH40K  has to be grimdark all of the time.  Let's have a happy ending.

I think you are missing my point.

A good epic makes you feel like there is actually something at stake, something to lose, and that there is a sense of sacrifice.  You can love or hate Bioware's attempt at turning Liara and ME 2 dark.  You can say it was heavy handed and not well done, etcetc.

The bottom line is, ANY writer would have probably taken a similiar philosophy.  A victory too easily gained with NOTHING lost or no real sense of foreboding would be the most uninteresting story ever.

I often think during movies "why didnt character x just do this so they could avoid that" or "why didnt the writers just let them y so they could be together".  The reason?  If writers gave us EVERYTHING we want upfront, there'd be no tension, no emotional impact. As much as we may think we WANT those things, once we would get them, I would guarantee this forum would be on fire with "wow that waslame" or "that story sucks!!!!"

Mass Effect didn't resort to any of the lame plot mechanics ME2 did and it is the most interesting and exciting game I've ever played. 

I didn't argue that some of the plot mechanics as they were EXECUTED in ME 2 were "lame" as you said.  I argued that the sequel in an "epic" trilogy usually involes new conflicts and tensions almost across the board.  That means it is by its nature a darker tale...ANY writer from the guys who do the billboard ads to JRR Tolkien would probably have pushed the story in such a direction

Using James Cameron as an example,  both Aliens and T2 are significantly lighter and more hopeful than their predecessors and there aren't many people who would say they aren't as interesting or exciting as the originals.

Also in terms of a romance story, the second act of Titanic is not the "darkest act" (in reference to ME2 dark act of the romance structure), it is probably the most fun part of the film where the two leads have fun and you know, act like they're in a relationship (act one - meeting and start of relationship, act two - exploring the relationship).  The "dark" act is the third.  Not all stories need to follow the same structure.

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 22 avril 2010 - 09:53 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

What Dink is describing is the absolute worst case scenario, though.

Actually the absolute worst case scenario is another non-squadmate role and all the bull**** such a cameo entails.

Like it or not, Liaras place in the ME3 squad isnt certain. I know shes "saved" for ME3, but the "romance would continue" in ME2, and we saw how that played out.

Bioware could have just saved her for a plot sensitive cameo, whereas the rest of the old squadmates just get disposable cameos, bar the Virmire Survivor.

[Yeled]

screwoffreg wrote...

Yeled wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Just like we'll never see a game with the quality of BG 2 again, we will in the foreseeable future not get something as great as ME 1.

I never played the BG games.  Is BG2 a true sequel to BG1?  Do the games still resonate like they used to, or if you replay them do they come off as the, what, 15 year old games that they are?

On almost every list of greatest games ever BGII ranks up there.

A pretty amazing RPG, though the graphics have aged...badly.  The story and interactions are still solid.  The combat is  alright, for a D&D game.

Its a true sequel in that it builds of the fundamental premises of the first game and reuses a good number of the characters but makes them more...alive.

If I went back to play it...should I play both games or just play BGII?

[II Goonah II]

AZ RUSH wrote...

Liara will rejoin Shepard, and turn back into the loving, shy Asari she was. She has to and that's why she's the only unkillable (not a word) squadmate.

Yeah, I really do hope so!

And I like your sig man! Kasumi and Liara are definetly the best!

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Yeled wrote...

If I went back to play it...should I play both games or just play BGII?

Youll certainly be much much more prepared for BG II if you play the first. Youll also have the experience of carrying your character the ENTIRE way through the story.

And make no mistake, BG did some things better than BG II. The "game world" was much more vibrant and expansive than in BG II. Plus the plot is little bit more structured in BG than BG II.

The opening of BG II is a little daunting to say the least, and I think an experienced player handles it much better, just like theyll handle the combat much better.

[screwoffreg]

Yeled wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Yeled wrote...

bjdbwea wrote...

Just like we'll never see a game with the quality of BG 2 again, we will in the foreseeable future not get something as great as ME 1.

I never played the BG games.  Is BG2 a true sequel to BG1?  Do the games still resonate like they used to, or if you replay them do they come off as the, what, 15 year old games that they are?

On almost every list of greatest games ever BGII ranks up there.

A pretty amazing RPG, though the graphics have aged...badly.  The story and interactions are still solid.  The combat is  alright, for a D&D game.

Its a true sequel in that it builds of the fundamental premises of the first game and reuses a good number of the characters but makes them more...alive.

If I went back to play it...should I play both games or just play BGII?

You could play both and an older mod for the game allows uninterrupted transition between the games.  Honestly though, BG I is frustrating as hell because, in D&D levels, you start at the weakest point and you die so easily fighting rats.  It isn't necessary at all.

Also, the first part of BG II, as someone said above, is rather bad.  I'd play through it once for the experience, but after that there is a very easy to install mod that lets you skip it foreverafter.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 22 avril 2010 - 09:55 .

[Yeled]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

This isnt about them making a game "not to my specifications", I didnt buy Jade Empire and I wont buy TOR because of those reasons.

I understand why you say that about Jade Empire, but honestly the plot was terrific.  It was excellent storytelling, even if it wasn't much of a roleplaying game in terms of stat progression and stuff.

[Jax Sparrow]

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...  If writers gave us EVERYTHING we want upfront, there'd be no tension, no emotional impact.

No tension, no emotional impact?  I'd swear you just described ME2 to me.

I believe that giving us Liara as a squid in an expansion would cost the writers very little but they would gain a whole metric frαk ton.

[Yeled]

Thanks Dink and Screw! I'll stop derailing the thread now.

[Noxis6]

Yeled wrote...
I understand why you say that about Jade Empire, but honestly the plot was terrific.  It was excellent storytelling, even if it wasn't much of a roleplaying game in terms of stat progression and stuff.

I think the problem with Jade Empire was that it was good until the plot twist,but after that it was just rushed towards the ending without a chance to have the player take a breath

And on the BG series I would advise picking a few mods there are quite a few interesting out there some alter gameplay others expand or add new romances and party members which are well done in some cases and there is one that updates graphics although updating graphics doesnt mean much

Modifié par Noxis6, 22 avril 2010 - 09:59 .

[WilliamShatner]

Yeled wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

This isnt about them making a game "not to my specifications", I didnt buy Jade Empire and I wont buy TOR because of those reasons.

I understand why you say that about Jade Empire, but honestly the plot was terrific.  It was excellent storytelling, even if it wasn't much of a roleplaying game in terms of stat progression and stuff.

I replayed Jade Empire recently and it's awesome.  The overall cast is probably my favourite BioWare cast.  The only disappoinment is that you can only bring one character with you at any time.  Wht the hell were they thinking with that?  You have so many awesome characters but you can only experience one at a time?

And anyone going into BG should be prepared to load and save FREQUENTLY. The game is incredibly trial and error based.

[jtav]

AZ RUSH wrote...

Liara will rejoin Shepard, and turn back into the loving, shy Asari she was. She has to and that's why she's the only unkillable (not a word) squadmate.

Personally, I'd prefer a happy medium. She'd be more cynical than she was in ME, but still a good person. I'd like her to have a touch of the Knight in Sour Armor. Simply reverting to her ME personality seems a bit of a waste and a denial of everything's she gone through.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

Yeled wrote...

I understand why you say that about Jade Empire, but honestly the plot was terrific.  It was excellent storytelling, even if it wasn't much of a roleplaying game in terms of stat progression and stuff.

There was more to it than that. I just wasnt that interested in the setting at the time. Its one reason why, besides being an MMO, Im not interested in TOR. Im just not that interested in Star Wars right now, or perhaps ever again.

Even as much as I enjoyed the real KOTOR games, I doubt I would be interested if KOTOR III was announced.

Dragon Age, although I purchased it, fell to the same problem of setting, in that I wasnt that interested in the setting they created (Ive always been picky about my Fantasy settings though).

I cannot judge Jade Empire as a bad game, and I dont want to. Its simply a game that has never, and I would imagine never will interest me.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 22 avril 2010 - 10:03 .

[WilliamShatner]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...  If writers gave us EVERYTHING we want upfront, there'd be no tension, no emotional impact.

No tension, no emotional impact?  I'd swear you just described ME2 to me.

I believe that giving us Liara as a squid in an expansion would cost the writers very little but they would gain a whole metric frαk ton.

Liara as a squid? 

[WilliamShatner]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Yeled wrote...

I understand why you say that about Jade Empire, but honestly the plot was terrific.  It was excellent storytelling, even if it wasn't much of a roleplaying game in terms of stat progression and stuff.

There was more too it than that. I just wasnt that interested in the setting at the time. Its one reason why, besides being an MMO, Im not interested in TOR. Im just not that interested in Star Wars right now, or perhaps ever again.

Even as much as I enjoyed the real KOTOR games, I doubt I would be interested if KOTOR III was announced.

Dragon Age, although I purchased it, fell to the same problem of setting, in that I wasnt that interested in the setting they created (Ive always been picky about my Fantasy settings though).

I cannot judge Jade Empire as a bad game, and I dont want to. Its simply a game that has never, and I would imagine never will interest me.

If you paint Dawn Star blue you could mistake her for Liara. 

[AZ RUSH]

jtav wrote...

AZ RUSH wrote...

Liara will rejoin Shepard, and turn back into the loving, shy Asari she was. She has to and that's why she's the only unkillable (not a word) squadmate.

Personally, I'd prefer a happy medium. She'd be more cynical than she was in ME, but still a good person. I'd like her to have a touch of the Knight in Sour Armor. Simply reverting to her ME personality seems a bit of a waste and a denial of everything's she gone through.

I'm not saying to ignore what she went through.  I mean that she goes to Shepard to find comfort, and trusts him/her above anything.  You know...more loving than hardened:)