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[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Maybe, but I viewed Liara's fear that Shepard will hate her as another manifestation of her social awkwardness that we all know and love from ME1. Seriously, we know Liara is extremely compassionate, empathetic, caring. She gave Shepard's body to Cerberus, knowing full well that they would use her for their own business, because she was desperate to see Shepard revived. Liara fearing that Shepard would hate her for that is totally believeable, it's her social awkwardness and insecurity on full display yet again.

Also, I believe Liara is very much apologetic that she can't come with Shepard. Listen to how regretful and sad she sounds when she says she wishes she could rejoin the Normandy. Alot of people miss that line, and the way Liara says it. It's very sad.

I dont think it is, she should know better. If melding with Shepard wasnt enough to see there was no way he could hate her for that, I dont know what is.

Im not going to allow any excuses to cloud the issue here. I know Liara had a "friend" (who betrayed her on several occasions) to try and rescue, but even she admits there is no guarantee he is alive. And I know the Shadow Broker tried to sell Shepard to the collectors, but thats a funny logic, holding a vendetta against the one who tried to sell him, rather than the one who actually killed him. This is even more strange when she herself admits they probably have a connection to the reapers.

I dont want to make out Liara has done wrong, but I dont want to make out shes only done right as well. If shes back as a squadmate in ME3, I would be much happier seeing her admit that she choose a vendetta against the Shadow Broker and a chance to save Feron rather than stand by Shepard at a crucial time when he needed her.

Of course, I imagine thats a bit too in depth for Bioware, and theyll gloss over the excuse, simply using it as the "relationship restart" they wanted so Liara has to be re-romanced come ME3.

Modifié par Dinkamus_Littlelog, 23 avril 2010 - 08:31 .

[ratzerman]

justinnstuff wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

My money's on the PRIIIIIZE.

Just sayin.

You know what they say about the PRIIIIIZE. It's a heavy risk...

OK I'LL STOP DON'T KILL ME 

You just love pushin my buttons.....

[ratzerman]

New page, new(ish) pic.....

[bergerrz]

[bergerrz]

I know it was "risky"

[bergerrz]

This is the answer to all those that where upset about liara in ME2. Just listen to the lyrics and you will understand. It took me a while. Just listen and hope.

[JaylaClark]

bergerrz wrote...

I know it was "risky"

And the 'prize' will be ...

Wait, how long ago was 'death by snu-snu' used?

[JaylaClark]

justinnstuff wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

bergerrz wrote...

I know it was "risky"

And the 'prize' will be ...

Wait, how long ago was 'death by snu-snu' used?

Sorry for the completely noobish question, but I understand that death by snu snu refers to dying by Morinth love, but what's it mean? Like is it a reference or something? I've never understood it.

I forget which Futurama episode it was, but I believe all the males on the crew plus Kif were sentenced to it by an Amazon tribe.  Hilarity Ensues.

[bergerrz]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I dont think it is, she should know better. If melding with Shepard wasnt enough to see there was no way he could hate her for that, I dont know what is.

That's the entire crux of it, though. Through Liara's sheer attachment, devotion and love Shepard, she handed over the corpse to a terrorist organisation in order to ressurect Shepard. Liara thinks that she did the right thing, but for the wrong reasons. She turfed the corpse over to Cerberus, but not for Shepard's sake, as she admits that she lied to herself about, but for her own selfish desire to see Shepard rebuilt and revived. That has eaten away at her, tormented her for two years. No matter how much Liara knows Shepard loves her, she's going to be fearful that because she did what she did, Shepard is going to view her in an extremely dim light. It's her social awkwardness. It's just that this time, in contrast to ME1, rather than manifesting itself as inexperience in dealing with other people and being accustomed to her solitude, it's fear and guilt. Fear that the person she loves will hate her for acting due to her own desires.

Regarding Liara supposedly abandoning Shepard, that's subjective. I understand and sympathise with Liara's plight, and her feeling that offing the Shadow Broker will ease her of her pain and guilt, and make her happy again.

It boils down to the whole Paragon/Renegade thing. Paragons empathise with what Liara has suffered with, and seek to understand her suffering and what she's been through. Renegades view it in a more selfish manner, and see the results of Liara's plight as a slight against themselves, rather than seeking to understand.

With love there is no paragon or renagade.

[JaylaClark]

justinnstuff wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

I forget which Futurama episode it was, but I believe all the males on the crew plus Kif were sentenced to it by an Amazon tribe.  Hilarity Ensues.

Ahh gotchya. I'm a Futurama fan but I haven't seen all the episodes. Why the hell did that show end and Family Guy is still on the air.  <_<

Because there is no justice in this world.  (Seriously, though, Seth MacFarlane is capable of story-driven funny, see American Dad, but for some very odd reason he prefers to do shock-spot-fests like FG.)

[bergerrz]

JaylaClark wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

JaylaClark wrote...

I forget which Futurama episode it was, but I believe all the males on the crew plus Kif were sentenced to it by an Amazon tribe.  Hilarity Ensues.

Ahh gotchya. I'm a Futurama fan but I haven't seen all the episodes. Why the hell did that show end and Family Guy is still on the air.  <_<

Because there is no justice in this world.  (Seriously, though, Seth MacFarlane is capable of story-driven funny, see American Dad, but for some very odd reason he prefers to do shock-spot-fests like FG.)

It makes BILLLL$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
SON

[IndigoWolfe]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

I dont think it is, she should know better. If melding with Shepard wasnt enough to see there was no way he could hate her for that, I dont know what is.

That's the entire crux of it, though. Through Liara's sheer attachment, devotion and love Shepard, she handed over the corpse to a terrorist organisation in order to ressurect Shepard. Liara thinks that she did the right thing, but for the wrong reasons. She turfed the corpse over to Cerberus, but not for Shepard's sake, as she admits that she lied to herself about, but for her own selfish desire to see Shepard rebuilt and revived. That has eaten away at her, tormented her for two years. No matter how much Liara knows Shepard loves her, she's going to be fearful that because she did what she did, Shepard is going to view her in an extremely dim light. It's her social awkwardness. It's just that this time, in contrast to ME1, rather than manifesting itself as inexperience in dealing with other people and being accustomed to her solitude, it's fear and guilt. Fear that the person she loves will hate her for acting due to her own desires.

Regarding Liara supposedly abandoning Shepard, that's subjective. I understand and sympathise with Liara's plight, and her feeling that offing the Shadow Broker will ease her of her pain and guilt, and make her happy again.

It boils down to the whole Paragon/Renegade thing. Paragons empathise with what Liara has suffered with, and seek to understand her suffering and what she's been through. Renegades view it in a more selfish manner, and see the results of Liara's plight as a slight against themselves, rather than seeking to understand.

I'm sorry, I know what you just said was important, but... "She turfed the corpse over to Cerberus", a bit of a typo there. A for some reason hilarious typo that I can't get out of my head.

Turfed! 

[IndigoWolfe]

justinnstuff wrote...

@ Jayla - I guess regular TV shows are just too complicated for the average user.

Don't be too hard on yourself. I didn't get it either.

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...


That's the entire crux of it, though. Through Liara's sheer attachment, devotion and love Shepard, she handed over the corpse to a terrorist organisation in order to ressurect Shepard. Liara thinks that she did the right thing, but for the wrong reasons. She turfed the corpse over to Cerberus, but not for Shepard's sake, as she admits that she lied to herself about, but for her own selfish desire to see Shepard rebuilt and revived. That has eaten away at her, tormented her for two years. No matter how much Liara knows Shepard loves her, she's going to be fearful that because she did what she did, Shepard is going to view her in an extremely dim light. It's her social awkwardness. It's just that this time, in contrast to ME1, rather than manifesting itself as inexperience in dealing with other people and being accustomed to her solitude, it's fear and guilt. Fear that the person she loves will hate her for acting due to her own desires.

All of this ignoring the key factor that Shepard was DEAD. She even defends herself capably saying it was either cerberus or the collectors. I think in general most Shepards would be grateful for the chance to live again, and to try and rectify their failure of getting themselves killed.

Regardless this isnt in any way tied to not joining Shepard. This is just her fear of the initial meeting, and particularly if you show gratititude, is no reason to still snub Shepard.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Regarding Liara supposedly abandoning Shepard, that's subjective. I understand and sympathise with Liara's plight, and her feeling that offing the Shadow Broker will ease her of her pain and guilt, and make her happy again.

Regarding it being subjective, its not: she chooses a vendetta against the SB and a chance to save Feron over helping Shepard against the collectors. "Shes busy" is basically the crux of it. Its a pathetic excuse to keep her out of the squad, but once shes out of it, it does noticeable damage to her character. Liara left Shepard to go on this suicide mission without her, without so much as a worry or concern for his safety.

But of course choosing to see if destroying the SB and saving Feron will remove her guilt and make her happy again is he right decision. What does it matter if she loses Shepard for good this time, with no way of saving him?

You do know thats what happens if Shepard fails right? Liara abandons Shepard for her own mission and he gets killed on the suicide mission and thats it, shell never see him again. Then shes back to square one after killing the shadow broker.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
It boils down to the whole Paragon/Renegade thing. Paragons empathise with what Liara has suffered with, and seek to understand her suffering and what she's been through. Renegades view it in a more selfish manner, and see the results of Liara's plight as a slight against themselves, rather than seeking to understand.

It boils down to the simple fact that there is selfishness on both sides. Turning up after two years and expecting Liara to drop everything is selfish I admit. No more so than saying "sorry, got vendetta to finish, you go on your suicide mission" after your lover returns back from the dead and wants your help and your love again.

I know you refuse to admit it, but this excuse of a cameo doesnt leave Liara as little miss perfect doing everything right. I want her to acknowledge that she cared more about settling a score with the SB and seeing if Feron was alive or dead than making sure Shepard didnt die on the suicide mission, or even just plain giving a **** about the fact that he could die.

[JaylaClark]

justinnstuff wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

@ Jayla - I guess regular TV shows are just too complicated for the average user.

Don't be too hard on yourself. I didn't get it either.

Oh, and someone had one, I think with one of the ME2 Looks given, a few pages back.

[Asheer_Khan]

Even not amused Lia is still pretty:wub::wub: