50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Asheer_Khan]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I have just realised something though. In my only ME2 playthrough so far, not once did my Shepard ever consider it a suicide mission. Never. It was always "We're definitely coming home alive, this is a mission like any other." The whole suicide mission thing was for marketing and publicity benefits, nothing else. Hell, the Ilos and Citadel mission could also be considered a suicide mission, it's just that it's never referred to as such.

I don't know about you, Dink, but is it entirely possible that Liara views Shepard as completely capable of coming home alive, that everything will be alright? Hell, it was possible to leave her on the Normandy in ME1, and set food in a burning Citadel in the midst of a geth invasion. Nobody bats an eyelid at that, isn't Liara abandoning Shepard there too? This whole "suicide mission" terminology is a load of old cobblers though. By definition, any important mission, and this goes for RL too, could be a "suicide mission" as there's always a chance it will result in death. I think Liara trusts Shepard enough to know that she's coming back alive. This whole "suicide mission" concept has been spinned for the purposes of publicity, and marketing.

That's true because to turn this mission in  real suicide mission requires i would say "hard work" or complete lazines from player side because not only Miranda gives usefull hints how to set up proper people to each parts but even game itself pointed at the OBVIOUS choices...
Heck once (my very second run) i was able to keep unloyal Legion alive so you are again correct that name of this mission is just commercial PR served by Bioware.
And that's why i tend to use term C-Base mission when i post about her.<_<.

[Asheer_Khan]

justinnstuff wrote...



Kitten eyes Liara!!

:happy::wub:

[XxSTIZZxX]

they should bring back all the original squad member that players had survived from mass effect 1 and 2 back in mass effect 3....

[XxSTIZZxX]

yo how do u make the pictures show on here...im new on this

[Jack Package]

XxSTIZZxX wrote...

yo how do u make the pictures show on here...im new on this

"[img]" link of the picture "[img]"

without the quotation marks

[Unit-Alpha]

[img.]www.whatever.com/imgwhatever[/img.]



Remove periods and replace url with image url.

[Asheer_Khan]

XxSTIZZxX wrote...

yo how do u make the pictures show on here...im new on this

Most of the pictures comes from ME 1 PC version (F 11 key for screenies)
But ME 2 don't have binded screenshot key so it's required to have any external screen capture source like X-fire for example.

And then you need to upload such screen on internet site (photobucket is good) and later on copy/paste here image URL (whit [IMG] tags).

EDIT: Hehe... i see that others were faster;).

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 23 avril 2010 - 10:55 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...


Dink, I can see that alot of your scepticism lies in that you don't think the writers have the ability to make it as complex, deep and intricate as what we're proposing. I can see that concern, but I do think that there is something deeper and more complex there with Liara, and there are pointers and little nods that to me seem to suggest so. The fact that we ARE able to challenge Liara and say "This isn't just about your friend, is it?" and for Liara to then open up and reveal her full motive, and that most of her motivation for wanting to off the SB is guilt for what she had to do to Shepard, and the subsequent emotional torment. It's not as simple as an eye-for-an-eye revenge, or learning of the fate of someone who helped you. It's almost flat out stated in the game that it goes deeper than that. There is an attempt to create complex, emotional reasons for Liara. But like I said, the execution is so poor and the reunion way too brief that it feels really slapped together, and poorly done.

My point is, Liara's motives extend beyond mere revenge and learning of a friend's fate. It's deeper than that.

I know all this myself LET, Ive seen it.

Where we differ is not in our understanding of those comments, but in how they either are, or are not completely nullified by the fact that Shepard is potentially going off to his death.

Ive already pointed out, its not just PR about the suicide mission, your squad believes it and so does Shepard. If Liara is going after the SB "for Shepard, for her love of Shepard" and Shepard dies on the suicide mission, how does that look?

You yourself have admitted you never looked on it as a suicide mission. Maybe thats why weve have hit such an impasse. I always did (however much the gameplay of the suicide mission may have been a joke) and I believe Liara must have done as well.

I would like it if thats referenced in future: the fact that she chose to pursue the SB while Shepard very likely could have gone to his death.

I dont expect it to be though.

This isnt about berating Liara or suggesting shes not had it tough. But Liara and Shepard are in the relationship together and I personally feel Shepard has had it just as bad as Liara.

I want Bioware to commit to this lazy excuse of a cameo at least. Give it some worth. I dont want it to be "Liara did what she had to do, and you should just continue the relationship like nothing happened".

No, I think Bioware screwed the relationship between Liara and Shepard in this "rocky second chapter of the romance", and I want some clarfication and some closure before they can move on.

To be honest though, Im just expectng an easy moving on for Shepard and Liara, so as to make the romance accessible to new players (because I dont think there is a chance in hell they will restrict the romance to ME1 players who didnt cheat. I imagine Bioware thinks its just not cost effective that way.)

[bjdbwea]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Ive said it once already, but I would be quite happy with the idea that Liara likewise knows this is a potential one way trip, and is frightened. Not of dying - shes put herself in harms way too many times for that. I think shes frightened that Shepard is again going to be lost, and to the very same entity that took him from her originally no less.

Interesting. I could see the ME 1 LIs pushing Shepard away for that reason. Two years have passed, and just when Shepard's back, it's another mission with possibly no return. Maybe they don't want to feel the same loss a second time (although of course they would anyway if they heard the news of Shepard's death, even if they thought their behaviour would help them not to). But that said, they don't really act that way. Besides, the question would remain why they don't just come along. The only believable explanation - that they don't care enough about Shepard anymore - is certainly not an explanation anyone would want to see.

You can go round and round, but the scene remains a prime example of bad and lazy writing. You don't have to spell everything out, in fact the best writing doesn't, but to leave everything open for interpretation and speculation is... just bad. I, too, doubt that the writers have the ability / willingness / permission to make up for their mistakes. I don't expect anything from them anymore, if we at least get some okay-ish continuation and conclusion, I would already be positively surprised.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 23 avril 2010 - 11:03 .

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

bjdbwea wrote...

Interesting. I could see the ME 1 LIs pushing Shepard away for that reason. Two years have passed, and just when Shepard's back, it's another mission with possibly no return. Maybe they don't want to feel the same loss a second time (although of course they would anyway if they heard the news of Shepard's death, even if they thought their behaviour would help them not to). But that said, they don't really act that way. Besides, the question would remain why they don't just come along. The only believable explanation - that they don't care enough about Shepard anymore - is certainly not an explanation anyone would want to see.

You can go round and round, but the scene remains a prime example of bad and lazy writing. You don't have to spell everything out, in fact the best writing doesn't, but to leave everything open for interpretation and speculation is... just bad. I, too, doubt that the writers have the ability / willingness / permission to make up for their mistakes. I don't expect anything from them anymore, if we at least get some okay-ish continuation and conclusion, I would already be positively surprised.

Well I have trouble thinking of a worse reasoning than "She is pursuing the SB and Feron because she loves Shepard", so a fear of letting themselves slip back to being close to Shepard when he is likely to be killed once more cant be much worse.

But I agree: Ive simply adopted an attitude of "assume the worst", and not just because I might be surprised, but because I think the job with ME2 doesnt deserve any more than that.

[Erinlana]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...



Kitten eyes Liara!!

:happy::wub:

OMG ! cute

[bjdbwea]

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Well I have trouble thinking of a worse reasoning than "She is pursuing the SB and Feron because she loves Shepard", so a fear of letting themselves slip back to being close to Shepard when he is likely to be killed once more cant be much worse.

Even the laziest plot twist can fly, if you at least implement it properly, and make sure that at least the rules of logic - drawn from common sense as well as the context of the game - still apply. But the developers couldn't even be bothered to do that. That problem however is not reduced to the Liara scene, it is apparent throughout the game.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 23 avril 2010 - 11:22 .

[Jack Package]

bjdbwea wrote...

Dinkamus_Littlelog wrote...

Well I have trouble thinking of a worse reasoning than "She is pursuing the SB and Feron because she loves Shepard", so a fear of letting themselves slip back to being close to Shepard when he is likely to be killed once more cant be much worse.

Even the laziest plot twist can fly, if you at least implement it properly, and make sure that at least the rules of logic - drawn from common sense as well as the context of the game - still apply. But the developers couldn't even be bothered to do that. That problem however is not reduced to the Liara scene, it is apparent throughout the game.

In the trilogy the middle part is always the hardest to do. Liara was stalled and kept away from your squad in ME2 and I am optimistic that in ME 3 the plot around her will be awesome. The devs were just bound to the guideline that ME1 LIs should not die and.. well... it wasn't handled the best way possible I'd say..

[OrbitalWings]

Well, I'm heading off to bed now - I leave you with this slightly further-along WIP...

[Sunnie]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

I have just realised something though. In my only ME2 playthrough so far, not once did my Shepard ever consider it a suicide mission. Never. It was always "We're definitely coming home alive, this is a mission like any other." The whole suicide mission thing was for marketing and publicity benefits, nothing else. Hell, the Ilos and Citadel mission could also be considered a suicide mission, it's just that it's never referred to as such.

I don't know about you, Dink, but is it entirely possible that Liara views Shepard as completely capable of coming home alive, that everything will be alright? Hell, it was possible to leave her on the Normandy in ME1, and set food in a burning Citadel in the midst of a geth invasion. Nobody bats an eyelid at that, isn't Liara abandoning Shepard there too? This whole "suicide mission" terminology is a load of old cobblers though. By definition, any important mission, and this goes for RL too, could be a "suicide mission" as there's always a chance it will result in death. I think Liara trusts Shepard enough to know that she's coming back alive. This whole "suicide mission" concept has been spinned for the purposes of publicity, and marketing.

That's true because to turn this mission in  real suicide mission requires i would say "hard work" or complete lazines from player side because not only Miranda gives usefull hints how to set up proper people to each parts but even game itself pointed at the OBVIOUS choices...
Heck once (my very second run) i was able to keep unloyal Legion alive so you are again correct that name of this mission is just commercial PR served by Bioware.
And that's why i tend to use term C-Base mission when i post about her.<_<.

Not only ALL of this, but it actually is difficult to get people killed, unless you skip like 80% of the game. It was never a suicide mission, not by a long shot.

[Collider]

Misfire

Modifié par Collider, 23 avril 2010 - 11:30 .

[bergerrz]

Listen Dink liara, In the developers thoughts is torn between loyalty to shep or to her motives. She want's to link the shadow brokers deals to what soverigns or the harbengers motives. She want's to help. You must let her.

[bergerrz]

L8ter MDK!

[Jack Package]

Ah, by the way... I skipped over some pages in this thread an I have to say that this thread has the best fanart. Definitely. It is well drawn and always tasteful.