50907 réponses à ce sujet

[Asheer_Khan]

justinnstuff wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I know this is way off topic, but I just had to share my beautiful roses! I love spring!

Those are very pretty 

We can put this back on topic, which one do you think Liara would like the best?

That lower right one is very pretty :happy:, but honesly every rose are beautiful and no matter what color Lia will like them all (assuming that she have no alergy on earth flowers ).

[Unit-Alpha]

bjdbwea wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Yes, I agree. I expect Garrus and Tali especially wil get sidelined with minor roles aboard the Normandy and as LI's.

You don't seriously believe that, do you. They went out of their way with the attention dedicated to Tali, and whatever one may think about that, I see little reason why they wouldn't do exactly the same for ME 3. The Garrus situation is not so clear, his romance was obviously fan service, but he, his role, and the romance obviously didn't receive nearly as much attention. I am unsure however if I should be jealous that he got at least that amount of attention, or if I should be glad that the Liara situation wasn't continued in such a short, shallow and meaningless way. Probably a bit of both.

PS: No offense intended to the fans of any character. This is about the writing.

I think that's what they intended before the release of ME2, yes, but seeing the feverish "I WANTS TALI" threads, I expect them to reconsider.

[Marcin K]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

justinnstuff wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

I know this is way off topic, but I just had to share my beautiful roses! I love spring!

Those are very pretty 

We can put this back on topic, which one do you think Liara would like the best?

That lower right one is very pretty :happy:, but honesly every rose are beautiful and no matter what color Lia will like them all (assuming that she have no alergy on earth flowers ).

well i'm not much into flowers but they seem pretty nice:P
and also i go OFFLINE overnight, so cya all tomorrow mornin, have a great night, and dream about LiLi:)
i leave this as my today legacy:

[Dinkamus_Littlelog]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

Dink I disagree. Programing in and coding in all those flags and indicstors for all the different romance permutations is alot more complex and intricate then simply creating a second seperate romance path. With two different paths, it's far more simpler and easier to just create clearly defined dialogue choices and options contained within these paths, rather than taking the time to add in all the different possibilties and flags that an altered single romance path would entail.

There are those permutations without any sort of romance input. Liara reacts differently to your background in ME1 for example. She also reacts differently depending on the time you arrive to help her. These things are already there, and its no more trouble for Bioware to add on back-reaching trigger for romance than it is for whether you saved the council or not.

What you are claiming is "more complex" is the basis of carryover right now LET. Its all thats been "carried over". Claiming creating an entirely seperate romance path that would likely need its own complex set of variables for the romance on its own, not even including all the other aforementioned baggage is more difficult than making on already complex romance path that little bit more so with references to past decisions.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
I choose to interpret that the minimal impact of choices thus far has been to ensure that the different possibilities are kept to a logical minimum, so that it doesn't become too complex and virtually too vast to be able to realistically accomplish. Like CH said in that interview, ME3 will be where we really see the fruits of our choices as there is not another game that they have to be concerned about, and they can go all out in terms of outcomes and effects choices will have.

Casey says lots of things, like you will be able to continue your romance with the ME1 LI in ME2.

Ive already covered this. ME3 will have more impactful results than ME2 of course, but ME2 basically avoided most of these results isntead of directly exploring them.

They have said however, in terms of what these choices actually effect, no matter if its ME1 or ME2, has to be constrained, otherwise if too much is changed you are fast approaching two different games depending on what choices you made.

Creating two equally in depth Liara romances cant be done without compromising the amount of content Liara has. You can disagree, but I think its far more likely Bioware will continue with the "core game" with certain areas slightly altered because of your past decisions.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

The two romance paths for Liara's character wouldn't be that vastly different. A new player would see Liara talk about how Shepard is finally reciprocating the feelings that she's always had, and be similar to the ME1 romance in that Liara has never melded before and feels the need to gain the trust and love required in order for her to consider a physical relationship. Whereas a loyal ME1 romance will have the development of their relationship into a deep and true spiritual bond, and something that goes beyond what they had in their relationship previously. It'll develop into something alot deeper than that, they'll become bondmates. All of this would be contained within Liara romance dialogue, and realistically the epilogue. It wouldn't really effect Liara's character outside of that.

Thats two fundamentally different Liara dialogues, which to keep going would need to continue.

I think its pretty obvious the route Bioware will take with a reset Liara romance is a fairly ambiguous early romance, where it could either be Liara talking about finally admitting their feelings for one another, or finally coming out of the rough patch of ME2 together, with some potential lines thrown in directly referencing staying loyal perhaps.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...
I thought that the whole "alters the tone" explanation was only applicable to ME2? As like I said, CH said in a recent interview that ME3 is where we'll see our choices realy come to fruition.

No, "alters the tone" is how the game operates. Saving the rachni vs killing them isnt likely to bring out two dramatically different endings, because again, thats twice the level of work necessary. It would more likely be resolved in a situation that runs along fairly strict lines, and only midly changed due to your choices.

Making such fundamental changes to much of Liaras content is, like I have already said, akin to bringing in an ME2 squadmate who could be dead, and making two squadmates to accomdate whether they are dead or alive.

Just because its ME3 doesnt mean Bioware is going to roll out all the stops and go wild. There will be much more in terms of carryover than ME2 (not like thats difficult) but its not going to be crazy. They are still going to reset the game for newbs, and make sure its "standalone". Having a romance (which is an extremely in depth and expensive thing to do) be only accessible via playing through ME1 and ME2 in a specific way doesnt all mesh with "standalone".

[Sunnie]

Night Marcin!

[Sunnie]

This would be Liara's favorite!

[Asheer_Khan]

Sunnie22 wrote...

This would be Liara's favorite!

Yay ... Blue Rose for Blue Rose of Illum

[bjdbwea]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

No way will it be a single uniform Liara romance with indentical dialogue, that's impossible as it really would be jarring and out of place, and wouldn't make sense at all.

Sounds like you just described Liara's role in ME 2. Or... much of the whole game actually. <_<

Let's face it, they aren't going to write different paths. At the moment I wouldn't even bet on Liara being a crew member, or that there will be romance content to speak of. If there's one proper romance path for everyone, I'll be happy enough with it. Hopefully with an epilogue that doesn't consist of just a text box with three sentences. And that, I think, is the best we can realistically hope for. Even if they do implement a Liara romance path, it's unfortunately rather likely that it's not going to be what we would wish to see, but more like the uninspired ME 2 romances.

As for choices, nothing will matter. They greatly reduced the choices you can even possibly make in ME 2, but even those will make no big difference. They wrote themselves pretty much into a corner, as the final decision in ME 2 is potentially much more important than saving or sacrificing the council, but I still just don't see them investing the effort to make it count. If they didn't bother for ME 2, why start now?

[Sakhalin]

justinnstuff wrote...

Gives new meaning to blue rose of Illium! Haha, that Krogan spouting poetry was awesome.

That Krogan was sooo adorable!  Charr is such a sweet Krogan.  If you convince the Asari to stay with him, they can be seen on Tuchanka.  And Charr says something like "Who cares what if other Krogan wnat you or not?  I want you honey, and that's all that matters."

[Sakhalin]

Sunnie22 wrote...

This would be Liara's favorite!

[ratzerman]

bjdbwea wrote...



The name of this particular piece is the "Unrocky".

"Isn't it beautiful, Shepard? All these people, you saved them. Even if they don't give a damn, as you put it so bluntly."

"You know Liara... I think it was worth saving for this moment alone."

This is so beautiful........ but also heartbreaking, because I know it isn't real. And probably never will be.

[ratzerman]

Looking at it makes me want to cry.

[jlb524]

It is a lovely picture. And, yes, we will never see this in game.

I'm going to play ME2 now and get some more Liara shots.  Yay!

Modifié par jlb524, 24 avril 2010 - 10:05 .

[JaylaClark]

Okay, I was almost nervous that another 'friendly discussion' was brewing when closing in on this page, but from what I can tell, it barely needed the quotes today.

As for ME2 squaddies returning... they've backed themselves into a corner in a way, haven't they?  Given that they're already in two-disc territory with only two 'replacement' characters (Wreav instead of Wrex, and Ash and Kai), they're going to have to at least figure out how to clean up unneeded files (proven to exist in the case of Kasumi and hoped to exist in Liara's case -- not to mention having full read-throughs of gender-locked dialogue for both Sheps) to be able to do a decent game next time through.  They'll also have to require a hard drive, probably, though by my math, if they don't already I'm amazed.

But the point I'm making is, they needed so much space with what variables they used.  And yet there was barely any branching of the story.  Yet the fanbase probably demands all love interests available...they even demand it of Thane, when I personally take his status as 'we're not bringing him back, so bite us, Thane fans'.  Having said that, they'll probably have to set up, in my mind, three squadmates from the second game and alternates for each -- Jacob, Miranda, and Mordin.  (The two Cerberus operatives and the one with the best dialogue in the entire game.)  Add in the guaranteed survivors of ME1 and, oh, three more static characters and you have a squad.

With any luck, and with some solid DLC (I consider Kasumi to be a solid DLC for now, for comparison's sake) we'll be able to look at ME2 as our Back to the Future II when this is all over -- confusing, a little muddled, but it got us to the best part of the series. 

Not that it'll become our Empire by any stretch -- oh, by the way, to reiterate something I said last night, I did click through on that "troll's" wikipedia entry, to a NY Times review that stated that he was looking at his watch half the time.  He had a genuine point, yet instead of pointing out the unlikelihood of ME2 improving that much in retrospect ... nozy posted a big "Don't feed the troll" pic and everyone chased him off.

Can we actually behave like adults here?  I mean, I know not all of us ARE adults and stuff, but ... if we have to attack the arguer rather than the argument, it invalidates our own.

[jlb524]

They could also just keep the surviving ME3 people in your crew but give them horrendously superficial and inconsequential dialog. Maybe, two conversations each that have no bearing on the game? I wouldn't be surprised if they did this.



We can hope Liara and the Virmire survivor would get better character development and have more dialog as they are alive in everyone's game.

[bjdbwea]

You think they'll bring Jacob back? I don't see that. Of all the ME 2 companions, Mordin is the only one who's really well done. I like Miranda too, everyone else I wouldn't miss. And I agree, I would like to see less companions, but those need to have more dialogue and depth. I wonder if Ash and Kaidan will continue to be virtually the same, or if they will get different paths?

[scmadsen]

Am I like the only person that doesn't want new squad members? I mean really...why do we need them? Then again, I hated the whole, thing they did with ME2...sure...I liked some of the new characters...but I hated the old ones being left out. When will BioWare learn...that when you give us huge ass amounts of people to pick from, and then only let us take a few of them along...you're wasting time on characters not everyone will ever play with...ok, so you can call it replayability or whatever your want, but still. Why not give us less characters and make them deeper. More story, more dialog, more romance, more fluff and filler. I mean, most characters, I only ever took them on the missions I was forced to take them on...I left the sitting back in camp or on the ship, depending upon the game...I guess I should be happy I had choices, but I'd rather see better characters and fewer of them. Then again...they might pick the ones I don't like, to be the ones they focus on...then I'd be screwed...I guess I should be happy I had a large pool from which to find the ones I like. Ok, rant over.

[screwoffreg]

Did we add about 30 pages of discussion in a day or so?